Seabrook

[Guest]

[quote name="roshinaya"]Having Seabs earning 5m a year would be really pushing it when it comes to smart cap management. Sure, on the open market he is surely worth it. Hopefully Seabs will settle for something in the ballpark of 4.5. That's a mil raise on what he is making now.



Keith is making 5.5.[/quote]



Not really. You lose 1.5 more of the cap than you are now. Right now it would because of the KICKER they were nailed with last year.



I suggest anyone wanting to know anything Cap related read Chris on the 300 level.

 

[Kerfuffle]

I would think they would just give Seabs the same deal as Keith. That would seem fair as the two of them are pretty interchangeable and seem to go together like Toews/Kane in terms of talent. If Hawks are looking for a shorter term that doesn't bode well cause I'm sure there's a nice market out there next season for Seabs if he doesn't get a similar deal to Keith.

 

[bubbleheadchief]

[quote name="Kerfuffle"]I would think they would just give Seabs the same deal as Keith. That would seem fair as the two of them are pretty interchangeable and seem to go together like Toews/Kane in terms of talent. If Hawks are looking for a shorter term that doesn't bode well cause I'm sure there's a nice market out there next season for Seabs if he doesn't get a similar deal to Keith.[/quote]

I dont think they are interchangeable...at least how I define the word....one of them is the finesse guy (keith) the other is the tank (Seabs) and together they make a great pair.

 

[Chief Walking Stick]

[quote name="Kerfuffle"]I would think they would just give Seabs the same deal as Keith. That would seem fair as the two of them are pretty interchangeable and seem to go together like Toews/Kane in terms of talent. If Hawks are looking for a shorter term that doesn't bode well cause I'm sure there's a nice market out there next season for Seabs if he doesn't get a similar deal to Keith.[/quote]



Except Seabrook will never win a Norris Trophy. You pay 5.5mil for Seabrook and you bite yourself in the ass with another contract AGAIN.

 

[Guest]

[quote name="Stu Grimson"]



Except Seabrook will never win a Norris Trophy. You pay 5.5mil for Seabrook and you bite yourself in the ass with another contract AGAIN.[/quote]



Huh?

 

[Chief Walking Stick]

[quote name="R K"]



Huh?[/quote]



I haven't read the whole thread, I was only responding to one post. If you give Seabrook the same deal as Keith isn't that overpaying by 750K-1mil? It is in my opinion, but I'm a few credits shy of my cap management degree.



And Kerfuffle were you saying just same deal $$$ wise or length as well? Seabrook's style of play (aka his physical nature) will hinder him from being as effective of a player as Keith will be over a 12 year period most likely.

 

[Pez68]

[quote name="R K"]





Toews, Kane, Keith, and Turco. Turco just took a 4 million dollar pay cut to stay here. Kane and Toews, over a Mil and Keith, who knows with all the crazy contracts that were going on. Keep on going Pez you are amuzing. There's four just from this team off the top of my head. Try try again Pez.



As for the last comment, bullshit.[/quote]



Toews and Kane hardly took a discount. If you're still trying to sell that, I'm not really sure what to tell you. Why don't you tell me how many forwards in the NHL make more than they do? They're certainly not overpaid, but I would HARDLY call that a hometown discount, especially considering they were RESTRICTED free agents the upcoming offseason.



Turco, sure, he took a discount, but he also hasn't won a cup, and he's already made PLENTY of money. He's actually made as much in the last two years in Dallas, as Seabrook has made in his entire NHL career. More or less.



Keith really didn't take a discount either. He is making TONS of money, especially over the next eight years. We just followed the Hossa plan for his contract... Have you even looked at the contract structure? Duncan will average almost 7 mil per season until he turns 35. Discount? :lol: Sell that one to Rocky. Only because they tacked on those 35-40 years at an average of 2.4 per season to get his cap hit down....

 

[E Runs]

A balanced view from the gentleman who publishes The Committed Indian: Mr. Sam Fels.

 

[Chief Walking Stick]

[quote name="E Runs"]A balanced view from the gentelman who publishes The Committed Indian: Mr. Sam Fels.[/quote]

Personally, I can't see giving him anything over than 5 million a year, and 4.5 makes even more sense. Again, I don't think any team is going to risk forking over that much cash, and the coughing up the draft picks that are going to cuff your future. Sadly for Brent, the Hawks pretty much have all the leverage here, no matter how he plays this year.

These were my thoughts all along.

 

[Guest]

[quote name="E Runs"]A balanced view from the gentleman who publishes The Committed Indian: Mr. Sam Fels.[/quote]





The last paragraph speaks volumes, unless they were to get D return, which kind of defeats the purpose.



I think they pound something out in the 4-4.5 range for 5-7 years. Who knows, he is NOT injury prone, the only time he's missed significant time was his first year Knee issue. Does his physical play say that changes? I don't know if Keith gets crushed many more times than he did year before last his career could be in question.



injuries happen.



Nice quote jack ass!

 

[Pez68]

[quote name="E Runs"]A balanced view from the gentleman who publishes The Committed Indian: Mr. Sam Fels.[/quote]



Pretty much exactly how I see it.

 

[Guest]

[quote name="Pez68"]



Toews and Kane hardly took a discount. If you're still trying to sell that, I'm not really sure what to tell you. Why don't you tell me how many forwards in the NHL make more than they do? They're certainly not overpaid, but I would HARDLY call that a hometown discount, especially considering they were RESTRICTED free agents the upcoming offseason.



Turco, sure, he took a discount, but he also hasn't won a cup, and he's already made PLENTY of money. He's actually made as much in the last two years in Dallas, as Seabrook has made in his entire NHL career. More or less.



Keith really didn't take a discount either. He is making TONS of money, especially over the next eight years. We just followed the Hossa plan for his contract... Have you even looked at the contract structure? Duncan will average almost 7 mil per season until he turns 35. Discount? :lol: Sell that one to Rocky. Only because they tacked on those 35-40 years at an average of 2.4 per season to get his cap hit down....[/quote]



Toews and Kane took at least a Mil. And if you even need my source on that one, your quacked! Buffalo would have given Kane 8 plus per year to return. Why, because they were trying to increase the value of the franchise. Toews, the best Canadian player of the Olympics you already used as an example once. Really? LOLOLOL



You crack me up.



As for what I bolded, you asked what I meant and then use it in a sentence. Pez pez pez..... Oi vey!

 

[Kerfuffle]

[quote name="R K"]





The last paragraph speaks volumes, unless they were to get D return, which kind of defeats the purpose.



I think they pound something out in the 4-4.5 range for 5-7 years. Who knows, he is NOT injury prone, the only time he's missed significant time was his first year Knee issue. Does his physical play say that changes? I don't know if Keith gets crushed many more times than he did year before last his career could be in question.

![/quote]

Not injury prone but one thing I forgot about was that awful concussion he suffered. We're not privy here to the medical reports on him like the Hawks have. There could still be some lingering effects there. Or he could turn into a Lindros type with more frequent concussions. The more you have the easier it is to get another one. So I'm sure they have to consider that.

 

[Guest]

[quote name="Kerfuffle"]

Not injury prone but one thing I forgot about was that awful concussion he suffered. We're not privy here to the medical reports on him like the Hawks have. There could still be some lingering effects there. Or he could turn into a Lindros type with more frequent concussions. The more you have the easier it is to get another one. So I'm sure they have to consider that.[/quote]



when you have an "awful" concussion you miss more than two games. There are no lingering effects. Trust me.



How many games did Keith miss the previous year when clocked? Not many. Neither are injury prone by any means.

 

[tvltre]

[quote name="Kerfuffle"]

Not injury prone but one thing I forgot about was that awful concussion he suffered. We're not privy here to the medical reports on him like the Hawks have. There could still be some lingering effects there. Or he could turn into a Lindros type with more frequent concussions. The more you have the easier it is to get another one. So I'm sure they have to consider that.[/quote]



You bring up Lindros in a conversation about health with Seabs?

Lindros with the flyers in 8 seasons only played over 70 games twice 71 and 73. In between just those two years was 52 and 63 games, book ended with 46 and 55.



Seabs in just the 5 years here was 69 game in 05-06. He has played 80+ games three years after that. Then last year he missed 2.



Great comparison!

 

[IMuser]

[quote name="R K"]......You said it was Widely Speculated which would tend someone RATIONAL to think you meant more than by just you.....[/quote]



I didn't read the entire thread, but it doesn't require many to widely speculate. An individual can speculate both widely and wildly on a single subject. Speculation is often both wide and wild.



Maybe that is what Kerfuffle was up to.

 

[whalerhawk]

oi vey. When you have millions already you think of Money in a different light than you would if you didn't.

Not true. Just ask Dan Ellis.



As for Turco taking a $4 million dollar pay cut to come here? How so?



The Flyers were offering him $2 million per year for three years. He took $1.3 million to play here. That's $700K, not $4 million. If you want to factor in the years after this one, what happens if Turco wins the Vezina this year and signs a two year deal for $9 million after this season? Suddenly he didn't take a pay cut at all, did he?



Turco didn't take a $4 million dollar pay cut to play here. He took a $700K pay cut for the hopes of making $4 million MORE in the 2011 and 2012 than he would have made in Philly. Lets be real before we play with the numbers to make a better argument for yourself Ron.

 

[Guest]

[quote name="whalerhawk"]



Not true. Just ask Dan Ellis.



As for Turco taking a $4 million dollar pay cut to come here? How so?



The Flyers were offering him $2 million per year for three years. He took $1.3 million to play here. That's $700K, not $4 million. If you want to factor in the years after this one, what happens if Turco wins the Vezina this year and signs a two year deal for $9 million after this season? Suddenly he didn't take a pay cut at all, did he?



Turco didn't take a $4 million dollar pay cut to play here. He took a $700K pay cut for the hopes of making $4 million MORE in the 2011 and 2012 than he would have made in Philly. Lets be real before we play with the numbers to make a better argument for yourself Ron.[/quote]



The Flyers offered him a 6 Million dollar plus package. He turned them down. Who knows what happens after this year. NHL contracts are guaranteed!



He took a 4 Million Dollar pay cut.



Being real and all. My argument holds more water than yours Evan. Maybe if it wasn't guaranteed contract you might have a valid point. But, sorry, they are guaranteed.



And as for not being true, when you have 10 million in the bank let me know if your priorities are still Money over Desire. For some I would imagine it's still to go for the money, for others, at least FOUR on this team, it's not.

 

[whalerhawk]

I hear what you are saying Ron, but I disagree.



If a company offered me 60K each year for three years guaranteed, but another company said they would give me 40K, but if I did a good job, I'd most likely get 150K each of the next two years following, what offer do you think I would take?



I certainly wouldn't look at that it as taking a 140K pay cut. Interesting perspective.



Behind this defense, on this team, Turco's going to find a home next year playing somewhere for far more than what he was offered to go to Philly. Of that I am certain.

 

[Guest]

[quote name="whalerhawk"]I hear what you are saying Ron, but I disagree.



If a company offered me 60K each year for three years guaranteed, but another company said they would give me 40K, but if I did a good job, I'd most likely get 150K each of the next two years following, what offer do you think I would take?



I certainly wouldn't look at that it as taking a 140K pay cut. Interesting perspective.



Behind this defense, on this team, Turco's going to find a home next year playing somewhere for far more than what he was offered to go to Philly. Of that I am certain.[/quote]



He could blow out his back and never play again. Your example of you has no bearing on this what so ever. If there was a chance your career could be finished, and it was that late in your career where if it did, you would not get that, then maybe you have an argument. Here you don't. He took a PAY CUT because of his DESIRE to win the Cup. People WHO HAVE MONEY, sometimes TAKE less, to pursue something they DESIRE.



In Kanes, Toews, case they took less here to win a Cup and maybe multiple Cups, rather than pursue more money with another NHL team, or in their case since RFA, the possible opportunity to do so.



Keith signed his contract to finish his career here.



Seabrook could do the very same thing. His desire to stay where he's played his entire career, in a great city, could be why he took less than he could get elsewhere.









Yea unless he's injured. You know, Like Khabi was all of last year.