Shams: Bulls, Clippers to be interested in Lonzo Ball

[Gustavus Adolphus]

This year being an anomaly due to injuries, but I don’t know if Coby is any better than #8 on a championship team.

 

[Enasic]

Ball did almost double cobys WS/48 since you used that once it must be legit, yeah?

I never argued that coby was better than ball. My whole point was ball is an average player that shouldn’t be overpaid and will not move the needle much.

 

[Enasic]

In regards to coby, he’s 20 and was asked to do a lot of things he never used to be relied on. I think he’ll improve but I’m not that high on him either. At best he’ll develop into a Jamal Murray type but I doubt that even. Luckily he’s on a rookie deal and the bulls could be patient to see if he develops.

 

[knoxville7]

I never argued that coby was better than ball. My whole point was ball is an average player that shouldn’t be overpaid and will not move the needle much.

ball is the best, realistic option the bulls have this offseason. And he’s a significant upgrade at the position. It’s kinda a no brainer. Only thing that can get in the way is competition like the knicks, clippers, etc for him

 

[Enasic]

ball is the best, realistic option the bulls have this offseason. And he’s a significant upgrade at the position. It’s kinda a no brainer. Only thing that can get in the way is competition like the knicks, clippers, etc for him

It’s a no brainer depending on cost. My prediction is he signs with the knicks for 22-25 mil per.

 

[knoxville7]

It’s a no brainer depending on cost. My prediction is he signs with the knicks for 22-25 mil per.

so it goes from a no brainer at 20 mil per to a no go at 22-25 mil per? Or you just think he chooses the knicks with money being equal?

 

[Enasic]

so it goes from a no brainer at 20 mil per to a no go at 22-25 mil per? Or you just think he chooses the knicks with money being equal?

My preference would be $15-18
mil. I’d go as high as $20 but wouldn’t feel great about it and def wouldn’t go past that. I don’t think the money will be equal. I think NYK will offer the most.

 

[BNB]

Shooting/scoring problems? Please elaborate. I feel as though you’re focusing on his rookie year

also, not so much directed at you but the notion we need our PG to be able to create his own shot is just silly. That’s what Lavine and Vuc and to a lesser extent coby can do. We need a Pg that will get those guys the ball in their spots and who can hit an open jump shot when the double teams go to Lavine or Vuc

Even focusing on this most recent season, which is his best shooting/scoring year to date, he still wasn't amazing. Improved? Yes. But he still struggled.

Shooting percentages based on distance from the basket:
0-3 feet: Ranked 164th in the league and shot 63%. Even though other guards were better, not too concerning that he was ranked so low because big men dominate this category.

3-10 feet: ranked 217th in the league and shot 30%. This is simply awful. Many other guards performed much better here.

10-16 feet: Ranked 141st in the league and shot 38.6%. Also not good, and again, many other guards performed much better here.

16-3point range: Ranked 98th in the league and shot 40.7%. Average at best, below average at worst.

3p: Ranked 94th in the the league and shot 37.8%. Improved greatly here, but he's still very inconsistent with the 3.

So from 3-16 feet, he was really not good. Ben Simmons actually posted better/similar numbers, which is saying something haha. From 16-3point land, he also wasn't great. 40.7% isn't absolutely awful, but definitely points to him being very streaky from there.

Free throw shooting: He was terrible his first 3 seasons. Last year, he made a jump to 78%, which still isn't great, but not awful either.

I'm with you on needing a PG who is able to essentially quarterback the team. However, it's also much better to have a PG who's able to not only quarterback the team, but score if they need to. When you look at CP3 for example, he generally doesn't try to score much. His general purpose for the Suns on offense has been to get guys good looks, run plays, etc. HOWEVER, if the team is struggling, CP3 doesn't struggle much with putting up 40 if he needed to. Nash was the same way, as well as many others.

When you have a good passer, etc. who can't really score too well consistently, the team would have to take the ball out of their hands when they are struggling to score, which renders their best asset useless (see Ben Simmons.)

TL;DR: Lonzo is a streaky shooter/scorer who isn't very good from most parts of the floor. I would prefer having a PG who, not only is a very good passer and has a good feel of the game, but can consistently score if needed. To me, that isn't Lonzo, but I'd still be comfortable with making him an offer at the right price (between 17-20 million per year.)

 

[knoxville7]

Even focusing on this most recent season, which is his best shooting/scoring year to date, he still wasn't amazing. Improved? Yes. But he still struggled.

Shooting percentages based on distance from the basket:
0-3 feet: Ranked 164th in the league and shot 63%. Even though other guards were better, not too concerning that he was ranked so low because big men dominate this category.

3-10 feet: ranked 217th in the league and shot 30%. This is simply awful. Many other guards performed much better here.

10-16 feet: Ranked 141st in the league and shot 38.6%. Also not good, and again, many other guards performed much better here.

16-3point range: Ranked 98th in the league and shot 40.7%. Average at best, below average at worst.

3p: Ranked 94th in the the league and shot 37.8%. Improved greatly here, but he's still very inconsistent with the 3.

So from 3-16 feet, he was really not good. Ben Simmons actually posted better/similar numbers, which is saying something haha. From 16-3point land, he also wasn't great. 40.7% isn't absolutely awful, but definitely points to him being very streaky from there.

Free throw shooting: He was terrible his first 3 seasons. Last year, he made a jump to 78%, which still isn't great, but not awful either.

I'm with you on needing a PG who is able to essentially quarterback the team. However, it's also much better to have a PG who's able to not only quarterback the team, but score if they need to. When you look at CP3 for example, he generally doesn't try to score much. His general purpose for the Suns on offense has been to get guys good looks, run plays, etc. HOWEVER, if the team is struggling, CP3 doesn't struggle much with putting up 40 if he needed to. Nash was the same way, as well as many others.

When you have a good passer, etc. who can't really score too well consistently, the team would have to take the ball out of their hands when they are struggling to score, which renders their best asset useless (see Ben Simmons.)

TL;DR: Lonzo is a streaky shooter/scorer who isn't very good from most parts of the floor. I would prefer having a PG who, not only is a very good passer and has a good feel of the game, but can consistently score if needed. To me, that isn't Lonzo, but I'd still be comfortable with making him an offer at the right price (between 17-20 million per year.)

i get where you’re coming from. I just view him as someone who has had his %’s from all areas go up each season. Makes me feel like he can continue to improve in that aspect. Combine that with his size, and all the other qualities we’ve already mentioned and I like the potential for him to be really solid for the next several years.

and sure, CP3 and Nash are incredibly better. But those types aren’t around in bunches and one are currently available for the bulls. There really isn’t a better PG fit currently on the market IMO

 

[RoseMVP1]

He averaged 6 last season which is one less than coby white. His career high is 7. 6 isn’t really a ton of assists for a guy who has the rep of a great passer. 5.7 ApG last season playing with Zion Williamson and Brandon Ingram. Not super impressive.

I watched a decent amount of Pelicans games last year. His low assist total was because he was basically used as a wing. Zion and Ingram ran the offense as much or more. Even the game I watched where Ingram didn’t play and James Johnson had just gotten there, Johnson was running more point than Lonzo. I’d blame his low assist total on the trash offense Van Gundy was running.

 

[Gustavus Adolphus]

My preference would be $15-18
mil. I’d go as high as $20 but wouldn’t feel great about it and def wouldn’t go past that. I don’t think the money will be equal. I think NYK will offer the most.

This is silly.

 

[Gustavus Adolphus]

@Enasic yawn all you want, but look at what the cap situation for the Bulls is over the next five seasons, and the fact that the cap is going to go through another jump, and then ask yourself if you want AKME to haggle over an extra $5,000,000 in salary when it could help you win games.

That's fucking GarPax thinking. We've moved past that. Join us.

 

[Chicago4Life]

i'd rather the bulls trade for murray... ball at 20 mill or more is not worth it...
sign and trade lauri, a 2nd rd pick and coby if you have to...a starting five of murray, lavine, williams, young and vuce would be strong and the money difference from ball and murray can be used to retain theis or bring in other FA's.

 

[knoxville7]

i'd rather the bulls trade for murray... ball at 20 mill or more is not worth it...
sign and trade lauri, a 2nd rd pick and coby if you have to...a starting five of murray, lavine, williams, young and vuce would be strong and the money difference from ball and murray can be used to retain theis or bring in other FA's.

file this one under things that aren’t happening. Why on the earth would the nuggets want to trade Murray? And LOL at a lauri, coby, and 2nd round pick being enough to get Murray

 

[Chicago4Life]

View attachment 12550
file this one under things that aren’t happening. Why on the earth would the nuggets want to trade Murray? And LOL at a lauri, coby, and 2nd round pick being enough to get Murray

i was talking about dejounte murray, the one that lavine has been friends with growing up in seattle that lavine joked around with on twitter showing him in a bulls jersey...

 

[Gustavus Adolphus]

View attachment 12550
file this one under things that aren’t happening. Why on the earth would the nuggets want to trade Murray? And LOL at a lauri, coby, and 2nd round pick being enough to get Murray

I was thinking it was Dejaunte Murray from San Antonio.

 

[Gustavus Adolphus]

That is an awful lot to give up for Murray, IMO.

 

[Chicago4Life]

That is an awful lot to give up for Murray, IMO.

yea ideally i'd rather the bulls keep white as a 6th man but murray is a force on defense and his vision has gotten better each year...

 

[Gustavus Adolphus]

Something else to consider: Lauri is trash.

 

[Enasic]

@Enasic yawn all you want, but look at what the cap situation for the Bulls is over the next five seasons, and the fact that the cap is going to go through another jump, and then ask yourself if you want AKME to haggle over an extra $5,000,000 in salary when it could help you win games.

That's fucking GarPax thinking. We've moved past that. Join us.

Lol how many more games is lonzo helping the bulls win? How much is he moving the needle? Again, you don’t overpay players like him…you need to stay disciplined with giving out long term deals