Sox Need To Stick With Rebuild

[DewsSox79]

hes coming off of a bad year. sign him.

 

[nickofypres]

A team in desperate need for OBP,

2012: .319 OBP
2013: .317 OPB

Not to mention his HR will drop due to wrist injuries, leaving NYS (I know the Cell is a bandbox, but NYS is a joke), and having zero protection in Chicago.

-10 DRS in the outfield in 2012 (When he was healthy).

Granderson will want at least 3 years, and 8 figures. Pass. He won't be worth 12M+ for his age 34-36 seasons when his numbers continue to decline.

 

[nickofypres]

If the Sox are going to allocate money into anyway in hopes that they're still productive in 2 years, it should be McCann.

 

[DewsSox79]

Sox Need to Stick with Rebuild

If the Sox are going to allocate money into anyway in hopes that they're still productive in 2 years, it should be McCann.

this part i wont debate. the other I will. if he is a 12 mil player...(his demands)...than fine let him get that elsewhere. he also hit 43 bombs with that mediocre obp. I looked when I was on my computer, his hrs in nyc would have been hrs in chicago except 1. I will say that it would be stupid to get him and just him alone. there would have to be corresponding moves.

 

[nickofypres]

this part i wont debate. the other I will. if he is a 12 mil player...(his demands)...than fine let him get that elsewhere. he also hit 43 bombs with that mediocre obp. I looked when I was on my computer, his hrs in nyc would have been hrs in chicago except 1. I will say that it would be stupid to get him and just him alone. there would have to be corresponding moves.

Very true points. But you can get almost the same production out of De Aza that you'll get out of Granderson (minus the bombs) at a fraction of the cost.

2011-2013
Granderson: 273 .343 .422 - 109 wRC+ - 91 HR - 10.3 WAR
De Aza: .278 .343 .421 - 107 wRC+ - 30 HR - 7.5 WAR

Is the extra 1 win over the last 3 years worth the money he'll command? I realize you said if he wants that much he can go elsewhere, and I think he will.

The team doesn't have a core to build around like Boston, and Cleveland did. Hence why if you're going to spend money, you're going to have to hope the player is still productive in 2-3 years, because there isn't a core in place to add on too. And assuming Granderson keeps declining, the team will be in the race and he'll have a .280 OBP and 12 bombs, and won't help the team.

 

[DewsSox79]

Sox Need to Stick with Rebuild

Very true points. But you can get almost the same production out of De Aza that you'll get out of Granderson (minus the bombs) at a fraction of the cost.

2011-2013
Granderson: 273.343.422 - 109 wRC+ - 91 HR - 10.3 WAR
De Aza: .278 .343 .421 - 107 wRC+ - 30 HR - 7.5 WAR

Is the extra 1 win over the last 3 years worth the money he'll command? I realize you said if he wants that much he can go elsewhere, and I think he will.

The team doesn't have a core to build around like Boston, and Cleveland did. Hence why if you're going to spend money, you're going to have to hope the player is still productive in 2-3 years, because there isn't a core in place to add on too. And assuming Granderson keeps declining, the team will be in the race and he'll have a .280 OBP and 12 bombs, and won't help the team.

oh for sure. he is a compliment piece for a team with a core. i keep de aza as well. deaza to lead off and granderson to hit 5th or 3rd. one of the big boys can move to 3b. also sox are interested in jose abreu.

 

[ChiSoxCity]

Health concerns aside, Granderson is an RBI machine, which is what this team is in desperate need of at the moment. You have to compliment good pitching with timely hitting, and Granderson knocks runs in consistently.

De Aza and Granderson are too different players, so that argument is pointless. Although I do think you need to keep De Aza no matter what. He's a great table setter.

 

[nickofypres]

Health concerns aside, Granderson is an RBI machine, which is what this team is in desperate need of at the moment. You have to compliment good pitching with timely hitting, and Granderson knocks runs in consistently.

De Aza and Granderson are too different players, so that argument is pointless. Although I do think you need to keep De Aza no matter what. He's a great table setter.

:andruw:

The team doesn't need an "RBI machine", they need people who can get on base.

Batting in runs doesn't work if no one is on base. White Sox had a .302 OBP, good for a crisp 27th this season.

 

[ChiSoxCity]

:andruw:

The team doesn't need an "RBI machine", they need people who can get on base.

Batting in runs doesn't work if no one is on base. White Sox had a .302 OBP, good for a crisp 27th this season.

Every offensive stat was terrible for the Sox this year, not just OBP.

Winning baseball is not about getting on base, though. Ultimately it's about run production. There are several ways to produce runs, how you do it is not that important. This particular lineup needs another guy with pop who can drive in runs, either via the HR or a deep Sac fly. We lost this with Konerko falling off. Dunn led the team in RBI with 86. The next highest RBI total to Dunn was De Aza with 62. So basically, the Sox had two guys drive in more than 62 RBI during the season. I'm sorry, but you're not going to win games with one power hitter in the lineup.

 

[brett05]

You don't win by the homer you win by the runs across the plate. Sometimes that's a homer. Sometimes that's a walk swipe of second, ground out advancement to third and a sac fly in.

We need runners on to be driven in. Look at the successful teams, it's how they do it.

 

[DewsSox79]

You don't win by the homer you win by the runs across the plate. Sometimes that's a homer. Sometimes that's a walk swipe of second, ground out advancement to third and a sac fly in.

We need runners on to be driven in. Look at the successful teams, it's how they do it.

you still need to play to your ballpark.

When the team is decent they are in the top 5 for ballparks, number 2 as recently as 2012.

 

[brett05]

you still need to play to your ballpark.

When the team is decent they are in the top 5 for ballparks, number 2 as recently as 2012.

If it's Coors field Circa 1993.

This past year it appears we were league average. You put quality baseball people and let them do their job and they can mitigate the park they play in.

Again, outside of Coors.

 

[Capt. Serious]

De Aza also happened to whiff 147 times.

Unacceptable for a guy "setting the table".

 

[nickofypres]

You're right, such more acceptable had he grounded out/flew out a 147 more times instead.

 

[ChiSoxCity]

You don't win by the homer you win by the runs across the plate. Sometimes that's a homer. Sometimes that's a walk swipe of second, ground out advancement to third and a sac fly in.

We need runners on to be driven in. Look at the successful teams, it's how they do it.

I just said that, didn't I? Go back and re-read my last post.

The Sox need to concentrate on RUN PRODUCTION, does not matter how. Add slap hitters and base stealers is pointless for this team. The Sox need thumpers who can hit the ball out of the infield and drive in runs.

 

[Icculus]

:andruw:

The team doesn't need an "RBI machine", they need people who can get on base.

Batting in runs doesn't work if no one is on base. White Sox had a .302 OBP, good for a crisp 27th this season.

They finished that high?

 

[brett05]

I just said that, didn't I? Go back and re-read my last post.

good call, I did, and still very confused.
1) You start by talking about needing runs.
2) You then say they need a slugger
3) Then Finish with they don;t win games with one power hitter :shrug:

The Sox need to concentrate on RUN PRODUCTION, does not matter how. Add slap hitters and base stealers is pointless for this team. The Sox need thumpers who can hit the ball out of the infield and drive in runs.

You are right and wrong. They need to concentrate on run producers, not power hitters. There is a difference.

 

[brett05]

They finished that high?

We are only at .302 but to give it perspective that's just less than one base runner less per game than league average. And the offense really completely failed miserably compared to their career norms.

 

[ChiSoxCity]

good call, I did, and still very confused.
1) You start by talking about needing runs.
2) You then say they need a slugger
3) Then Finish with they don;t win games with one power hitter :shrug:
You are right and wrong. They need to concentrate on run producers, not power hitters. There is a difference.

Yeah, you ARE confused. I specifically said the Sox need RUN PRODUCTION in that lineup. You don't produce runs by stealing bases or hitting singles. Guys who can drive in runs with their bat (including themselves) at a rate of 80 or more RBI per season are run producers. Big power, high slugging percentage, solid contact hitter. Paulie has done this in the past, but he obviously can't do it anymore, so we need to replace him in the lineup. This isn't difficult to comprehend.

Right now the only guy in that lineup who can hit the ball out of the infield is Dunn. That's not enough.

 

[brett05]

Right now the only guy in that lineup who can hit the ball out of the infield is Dunn. That's not enough.

That's simply not even remotely close to being true.

But onto your request for run producers.
45 guys had 80 or more rbi in 2013.
Less than two per team in baseball.
Here's the list of guys that drove in 80 runs or more that are not home run hitters:

Yadier Molina
Kendry's Morales
Ian Desmond
Anthony Rizzo
Alex Rios
Alex Gordon
Billy Butler
Martin Prado
Jonathan Lucroy
Victor Martinez
Torri Hunter
Carlos Beltran
Michael Cuddyer
Andrew McCutchen
Jason Kipnis
Marlon Byrd
Mike Napoli
Matt Holiday
Adrian Gonzlez
Brandon Phillips
Freddie Freeman

There are three special players in no particular order that have good power and great speed:
Mike Trout, Hunter Pence, Robinson Cano

So out of the 45 guys last year that had 80+ rbi we see that more than half are not power hitters.

What's the point? You need run producers, not home run hitters. You need guys that can get on base and guys that can hit when runners are on base.