Sox Win Claim for Hoffman...

[nickofypres]

This is a classic KW move: acquire an aged veteran who is nowhere near their prime and greatly under-performing, throw them in the mix in a tight division race and hope for the best. If they fail, cut ties with them in the off-season, put out 2/3 of a competitive team again next season, see where it ends up in August, rinse, repeat. I'm really growing tired of this cycle, because it continually depletes what few fruits the farm system can produce, makes us rely more heavily on mid-level-or-worse FA's/traded veterans for key positions (god forbid this team actually signs or otherwise goes after a no-doubt top-tier player at a certain position, instead we get Juan Pierre, Ken Griffey Jr., Scott Linebrink, Tony Pena, Bartolo Colon, Freddy Garcia, Mark Teahen, Andruw Jones, Mark Kotsay and apparently Trevor Hoffman), and routinely yields the aforementioned fraction of a real competitive team year after year.

:helloexactly:

 

[JustinTCB]

I think we thought the same about Omar to and he has been wonderful.

I think this particular example is slightly flawed because Omar was replacing a bum.

Vizquel still isn't playing anything better than average defense, and his bat is still somewhere between replacement level and league average. Either way, he really isn't "wonderful", he just seems better because a)who he replaced and b) the team's winning streak happened to coincide with Vizquel playing more.

 

[DewsSox79]

This is a classic KW move: acquire an aged veteran who is nowhere near their prime and greatly under-performing, throw them in the mix in a tight division race and hope for the best. If they fail, cut ties with them in the off-season, put out 2/3 of a competitive team again next season, see where it ends up in August, rinse, repeat. I'm really growing tired of this cycle, because it continually depletes what few fruits the farm system can produce, makes us rely more heavily on mid-level-or-worse FA's/traded veterans for key positions (god forbid this team actually signs or otherwise goes after a no-doubt top-tier player at a certain position, instead we get Juan Pierre, Ken Griffey Jr., Scott Linebrink, Tony Pena, Bartolo Colon, Freddy Garcia, Mark Teahen, Andruw Jones, Mark Kotsay and apparently Trevor Hoffman), and routinely yields the aforementioned fraction of a real competitive team year after year.

I dont know how thats a bad move.

.279 .348 140 hits 49 sbs....not really a bad line. can his obp be around .370...ideally. I wouldnt say it was bad.

 

[Lefty]

I dont know how thats a bad move.

.279 .348 140 hits 49 sbs....not really a bad line. can his obp be around .370...ideally. I wouldnt say it was bad.

Juan Pierre is a guy, nothing more. He's no great shakes in either league. What I'm talking about is filling a need with a top-tier player at that position, Juan Pierre is definitely not one of those guys.

 

[BigSoxHurt35]

2011 should be:
Pierre
Beckham
Rios
Konerko
DH- of some sort
Quentin
Ramirez
AJ
Viciedo

 

[Lefty]

And he's certainly not a guy you give the most amount of plate appearances on your team to, especially considering he's barely above replacement level (5.2 VORP with 12% of team PA's).

 

[DewsSox79]

And he's certainly not a guy you give the most amount of plate appearances on your team to, especially considering he's barely above replacement level (5.2 VORP with 12% of team PA's).

 

[Lefty]

I don't get why you're running to the defense of Pierre, I didn't call him bad....yet. All I did was list him with a group of players acquired by this team that were decidedly not top-tier need-fillers. There is little to no argument you can offer against listing Pierre in that group. And yes, his contributions to this team have been well below replacement-level because he spent so much time below replacement level. His batting line is respectable now, but for a good stretch there he was really, really bad.

 

[nickofypres]

Lefty is not a real sox fan

:snootyfrenchlaugh:

 

[DewsSox79]

I don't get why you're running to the defense of Pierre, I didn't call him bad....yet. All I did was list him with a group of players acquired by this team that were decidedly not top-tier need-fillers. There is little to no argument you can offer against listing Pierre in that group. And yes, his contributions to this team have been well below replacement-level because he spent so much time below replacement level. His batting line is respectable now, but for a good stretch there he was really, really bad.

i am trying to understand more of what you are saying.....are you aggrivated because we havent gotten a top tier player via FA or trade. i just want to be on the same page here in this conversation.

 

[Lefty]

i am trying to understand more of what you are saying.....are you aggrivated because we havent gotten a top tier player via FA or trade. i just want to be on the same page here in this conversation.

Ehh....pretty much. I'm sick and tired of the team bringing in crappy, past-their-prime veterans and failed prospects as stop-gaps either at the beginning of the season or at/nearly-past the deadline to fill holes that should have been filled permanently from the beginning. Instead of bringing in Adrian Beltre to fill the hole at 3B, the org answers with buying out Mark Teahen's arb years and bringing in Omar Vizquel. Instead of bringing back Jim Thome (or signing a 27-year old Adam Dunn in 09 and not picking up Thome's option that year), the org answers with Mark Kotsay and Andruw Jones, and we end up trying to trade for Adam Dunn anyway when those two turn out to suck.

Kenny has done this time and time again: pass on signing or acquiring a top-tier guy in the off-season to fill a need, then end up trying to trade for an upgrade at that need later in the season when the alternative to the top-tier player just blows. This kind of SOP is good for the owner, since he is less likely to pay huge money for a losing season as far as payroll goes, but in the end we end up overpaying for the same talent we passed up in the off-season when the trade deadline comes and this team is looking to add. This does nothing good for the farm system (it effectively ruins it eventually), not to mention the fallout felt when we end up missing on overpaying for that talent (i.e. whiffing on Dunn).

 

[waldo7239117]

White Sox claim no claim on Hoffman - Chicago White Sox Blog - ESPN Chicago

No claim, so all you guys can relax now.

 

[Wrigley]

He would be a solid addition for the Sox. Hoffman isn't even close to the pitcher he once was, but at least he would add a solid closer/reliever. Big name as well. Definitely would be a good move.

 

[DewsSox79]

He would be a solid addition for the Sox. Hoffman isn't even close to the pitcher he once was, but at least he would add a solid closer/reliever. Big name as well. Definitely would be a good move.

solid? no, not even close.

he was a big name a longtime ago. i dont want big names passed their prime. i want ball players that can play.