Steve Smith film study on Luther Burden lll

msadows

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I mean, if they go 0-17 and Ben is a failure, sure. But I don't expect that. Does anybody expect that? It's a very tough SOS. Ben/Poles made a lot of great moves in the off-season, and the draft got great grades as well. That bought them time. Honestly, with this tough SOS I'd be happy if they got a winning record, 9-8. I do expect this OFF to look a lot better. It would take a total failure, IMO for either of them to be moved.

Also, this talk about Caleb being a bust, let's ease up on that. He struggled and had way too many sacks but he set some Bears rookie/QB records, and actually had a pretty good rookie stat line

3541 / 20 tds / 6 ints

I think it was like the tenth best rookie year ever? And let's compare him to Jayden Daniels who EVERYONE loves—

3568 / 25 tds / 9 ints

This regime has bought itself a few years, for sure.

Only way i see poles getting fired is if caleb is a bust and this offense flat out stinks. At that point ben johnsons days are numbered too

The team has too much talent on offense to flat out stink outside of caleb just being downright awful or there being a crazy number of injuries. Even if caleb is the same guy as last year the offense should be drastically better because the run game should be better and they have an offensive coach who isnt a moron
 

DanielCCSBears

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Dude, I am not a fan of Poles either. I think that overall he sucks too. But, I think I call a spade a spade and am able to speak to positives and negatives. You simply blast every move and never even let things play out. You never mention positives unless you are engaged with the Lions fans.

Not everything Poles has done has been a failure. Most of it has. Let's see how this year plays out with the new coaches and schemes and lots of new players. I personally still see them as an 8 win team but I would be OK with that if there is progress made and CW improves.
Lol I've mentioned plenty of positives, notably Caleb Williams in the red zone, the Ben Johnson hire the Dennis Allen hire, the Drew Dalman signing the trade for Thuney. The criticism lobbed at Cole Kmet is stupid given how few targets he had last year.

The problem is Loveland had major shoulder surgery, Turner had a stress fracture and a rod inserted into his leg bone ala Kevin White, the pass rush is non existent, Mike Greene fell into their laps much the same way Jalen Carter did two years ago and they passed on him.

Typically an elite athlete at offensive tackle which is what Ersery is, long term success in the NFL. So when Mike Green and Ersery fall into your laps in the second round you pull the trigger on them instead of reaching for another WR and a white unathletic tall short armed offensive tackle who struggled to play LT in college.
 

Washington

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Typically an elite athlete at offensive tackle which is what Ersery is, long term success in the NFL. So when Mike Green and Ersery fall into your laps in the second round you pull the trigger on them instead of reaching for another WR and a white unathletic tall short armed offensive tackle who struggled to play LT in college.

Why does the color his Ozzy's skin matter? Are you saying there are no good white OTs in the game? That comment makes zero sense to me.
 

msadows

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Why does the color his Ozzy's skin matter? Are you saying there are no good white OTs in the game? That comment makes zero sense to me.

Pretty sure daniel is racist, so im not sure why he wouldnt want a white OT

The guy thinks black people cant play QB
 

Moses Moreno

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I mean, if they go 0-17 and Ben is a failure, sure. But I don't expect that. Does anybody expect that? It's a very tough SOS. Ben/Poles made a lot of great moves in the off-season, and the draft got great grades as well. That bought them time. Honestly, with this tough SOS I'd be happy if they got a winning record, 9-8. I do expect this OFF to look a lot better. It would take a total failure, IMO for either of them to be moved.

Also, this talk about Caleb being a bust, let's ease up on that. He struggled and had way too many sacks but he set some Bears rookie/QB records, and actually had a pretty good rookie stat line

3541 / 20 tds / 6 ints

I think it was like the tenth best rookie year ever? And let's compare him to Jayden Daniels who EVERYONE loves—

3568 / 25 tds / 9 ints

This regime has bought itself a few years, for sure.
Every single year Poles has gotten the media to crown him as off-season champ.

Gotta see it in November.
 

DaBears3434

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Lol I've mentioned plenty of positives, notably Caleb Williams in the red zone, the Ben Johnson hire the Dennis Allen hire, the Drew Dalman signing the trade for Thuney. The criticism lobbed at Cole Kmet is stupid given how few targets he had last year.

The problem is Loveland had major shoulder surgery, Turner had a stress fracture and a rod inserted into his leg bone ala Kevin White, the pass rush is non existent, Mike Greene fell into their laps much the same way Jalen Carter did two years ago and they passed on him.

Typically an elite athlete at offensive tackle which is what Ersery is, long term success in the NFL. So when Mike Green and Ersery fall into your laps in the second round you pull the trigger on them instead of reaching for another WR and a white unathletic tall short armed offensive tackle who struggled to play LT in college.
Following the careers of Ersery and Burden will be fun.
 

MikeDitkaPolishSausage

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Lol I've mentioned plenty of positives, notably Caleb Williams in the red zone, the Ben Johnson hire the Dennis Allen hire, the Drew Dalman signing the trade for Thuney. The criticism lobbed at Cole Kmet is stupid given how few targets he had last year.

The problem is Loveland had major shoulder surgery, Turner had a stress fracture and a rod inserted into his leg bone ala Kevin White, the pass rush is non existent, Mike Greene fell into their laps much the same way Jalen Carter did two years ago and they passed on him.

Typically an elite athlete at offensive tackle which is what Ersery is, long term success in the NFL. So when Mike Green and Ersery fall into your laps in the second round you pull the trigger on them instead of reaching for another WR and a white unathletic tall short armed offensive tackle who struggled to play LT in college.
So because you said this, the opposite will happen. That’s good news for the Bears!
 

pseudonym

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Only way i see poles getting fired is if caleb is a bust and this offense flat out stinks. At that point ben johnsons days are numbered too

The team has too much talent on offense to flat out stink outside of caleb just being downright awful or there being a crazy number of injuries. Even if caleb is the same guy as last year the offense should be drastically better because the run game should be better and they have an offensive coach who isnt a moron
This. ^^^
 

pseudonym

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Every single year Poles has gotten the media to crown him as off-season champ.

Gotta see it in November.
You're not wrong. But I'm more confident in this team—coaches, players, schemes—than I have EVER been. Though every year it feels a bit like Lucy and that football, right? I'm excited to see what they do.
 

Moses Moreno

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You're not wrong. But I'm more confident in this team—coaches, players, schemes—than I have EVER been. Though every year it feels a bit like Lucy and that football, right? I'm excited to see what they do.

Don't wanna piss in your Cheerios but Poles' biggest knock from me is his complete lack of due diligence.

-Titans bloggers knew Nate Davis didn't give a shit
-The entire NFL knew that Claypool was a mental moron
-Posters here knew that Velus was not a football player
-It took the media one press conference to sniff out Shane Waldron as a fraud
-Drafting Kiran so early when he was clearly raw and seriously injured is a problem

If it comes out that Burden has some issues and they were known about by plenty of people, but not by Poles (or just overlooked by Poles) I won't be surprised in the slightest. Very few of his gambles have paid off and he's wasted a lot of draft capital in the process.
 

pseudonym

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Don't wanna piss in your Cheerios but Poles' biggest knock from me is his complete lack of due diligence.

-Titans bloggers knew Nate Davis didn't give a shit
-The entire NFL knew that Claypool was a mental moron
-Posters here knew that Velus was not a football player
-It took the media one press conference to sniff out Shane Waldron as a fraud
-Drafting Kiran so early when he was clearly raw and seriously injured is a problem

If it comes out that Burden has some issues and they were known about by plenty of people, but not by Poles (or just overlooked by Poles) I won't be surprised in the slightest. Very few of his gambles have paid off and he's wasted a lot of draft capital in the process.
You're totally right. And I'd agree that Poles is on thin ice. But I trust Ben, until he shows me I can't. I don't think Poles made a SINGLE pick without Ben giving his approval. Hiring Ben gave Poles a few more years, but if he doesn't work WITH him, if he doesn't trust him and LISTEN to him, then why even hire him?
 

dabears70

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Dude, I am not a fan of Poles either. I think that overall he sucks too. But, I think I call a spade a spade and am able to speak to positives and negatives. You simply blast every move and never even let things play out. You never mention positives unless you are engaged with the Lions fans.

Not everything Poles has done has been a failure. Most of it has. Let's see how this year plays out with the new coaches and schemes and lots of new players. I personally still see them as an 8 win team but I would be OK with that if there is progress made and CW improves.
I'm good with Poles for now but his bad moves are just so damn bad that it makes it hard to trust him. From his drafting, mostly 3rd round and later, to his overpaying for guys like T.Edmunds, D.Swift including others and might be adding Dayo to that list, to his trades, with the Claypool trade leading that list, are hard to overlook. Not a good start with Loveland and Burden but they're both so damn talented that i'm not too worried as of now. Just don't think either were big needs and he could of used those two valuable picks at positions with much bigger needs. The Burden pick bothers me the most because WR definitely wasn't a need especially after adding Zaccheus who i was on here saying they should sign before they actually did.
 

dabears70

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Here’s a detailed analysis of Burden. I’ll include some highlights.

“Most of you are old enough to remember that A.J. Brown was a slot receiver at Ole Miss and Justin Jefferson manned the slot at LSU. Analysts underrated both players based on their roles, failing to adequately document their skills that transcend the results.

Tracking production, breakout seasons, route success, and draft capital are all valuable layers of studying a player.

If you're not analyzing the processes of releases, route stems, route breaks, uncovering against defenders, and man-to-man routes vs. zone routes, there's a significant risk of missing the underlying foundation of what helps us project success for a player.

With a large enough sample, data analysis can gloss over this missing context and sometimes get more right than wrong and proclaim success. Analysts hope these processes are baked into the results. When they are, they don't have to understand the tools of wide receiver play that make or break the player's game.

This approach is good enough to allow you to color within the lines of safe decision-making because a large enough sample can encompass enough "good play" to bake the process into the results. When you follow safe decision-making, you're less likely to be a big loser in fantasy football.

If you stay within the lines too much and don't consider compelling scenarios to step outside, you're also less likely to be a big winner. There are areas of the draft where it's safer to avoid the consensus because everyone is thinking alike. In competitive endeavors, you win by fitting in.

Luther Burden III's data may scream dink-and-dunk and/or gadget archetypes like Robinson, Mecole Hardman, and Tavon Austin, but you might as well have seen smoke on Instagram while scanning your phone during previews in a movie theater and screamed FIRE!!!! None of these three gadgets had complete games with routes or at the point of the catch.

Luther Burden III is a far more complete route runner than characterized, and his speed will translate to the vertical game. Burden demonstrated position-specific techniques and concepts on film that some data analysts couldn't quantify due to sample size, but these skills led to route success beyond the gadget game.
  • He repeatedly beats cornerbacks aligned at the line of scrimmage on vertical routes.
  • He stacks (cuts off their paths to control the route) defenders early or late in routes.
  • He uses effective changes in pacing and takes angles to enforce a defender's position to set up breaks.
  • He uses his head and eyes at the top of routes to bait defenders playing over the top.
  • His breaks are tight, sharp, and have the snap to gain angles of separation that defenders can't cut off.
  • He can drop his weight into breaks against tight coverage, and it leads to effective separation.
These are techniques that receivers like Luther Burden III don't perform by accident and occasionally get right once. These aren't false positives based on the study of results. These are true positives based on the study of the process.

Luther Burden III's route skills, speed, ability to adjust with his quarterback, and pass-tracking make him a legitimate intermediate and vertical threat.”

More at this link:

But @msadows said Burden can only play the slot which is why trading DJ Moore after this season would be stupid and won't happen.
 

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