SuperDitkaMan's Nagy and Pace Thread

[TL1961]

When someone finally gives Dave Toub a hc job, they won't regret it.

 

[Omeletpants]

Yeah, cause Special Teams coaches are the perfect candidate for Head Coach jobs. That's how the Bears got that moron Ditka, the most overrated HC in the history of the NFL

 

[mecha]

Ditka did fawk up by only winning one championship with that roster of hall of famers. Starting Doug Flutie in a playoff game with just miniscule NFL experience under his belt was one of many huge blunders by Duh Coach.

those teams were all doomed without McMahon. it's actually pretty amazing when you think about how stacked they were on offense and how brutal that defense was and they still lost in 3 different years. it's actually pretty infuriating.

 

[TL1961]

The natural progression is to become coordinator and then HC. And as we know, that always works out.

Ask Sam Wyche, Bum Phillips, Dave Wannstedt, Norv Turner, Rex Ryan, etc.

Off the top of my head, I can think o fthree non-coordinators who became HC: Ditka, John Harbaugh, Mike Tomlin. Sees the
batting average is better.


All of this is nonsense, of course. You promote a guy you feel possesses the tools. Basing it on his resume, and what positions he has held is certainly a valid way to go, but experience at one job is one thing. Ability to be HC is another. There are many coordinators not prepared to handle the diverse duties of HC. But some guys seem they can, regardless of current position.

 

[ClydeLee]

The natural progression is to become coordinator and then HC. And as we know, that always works out.

Ask Sam Wyche, Bum Phillips, Dave Wannstedt, Norv Turner, Rex Ryan, etc.

Off the top of my head, I can think o fthree non-coordinators who became HC: Ditka, John Harbaugh, Mike Tomlin. Sees the
batting average is better.


All of this is nonsense, of course. You promote a guy you feel possesses the tools. Basing it on his resume, and what positions he has held is certainly a valid way to go, but experience at one job is one thing. Ability to be HC is another. There are many coordinators not prepared to handle the diverse duties of HC. But some guys seem they can, regardless of current position.

There was Raheem Moore I think, the guy the Bucs hired after Gruden. Technically he was for some reason before they hired a hc announced he would be the DC... then days later just decided to name him HC after all.

Pretty sure Tomlin was DC in Minnesota for the year before Pitt hired him though.

Why panic when you can panik? via da Tapatalk

 

[The Hawk]

When evaluating the OC I take the perspective of what is in the job of an OC.
For instance, drafting, player personnel decisions, getting team ready to play, scouting, play calling, having a game plan, etc.

Let's start with the preseason:
Was the team ready to start the regular season?

1) Now, Ted Larsen played three games at center in the preseason but someone decided to switch him and place Cody Whitehair in that position.
Cody never played center, therefore he was not prepared to play center. On a side note, a player needs to know what position he is going to play before the season starts so that he can prepare his body for that position (Tom Thayer stated this during a radio show talking to Cody as the guest, and Cody agreed with him).

2) Who's idea was it to switch the offensive line a week before the season started?
3) Who's idea was it to get rid of Slauson a productive offensive lineman, when you need starters and backups?
4) Jordan Howard wasn't identified as a productive running back until the 4th or 5th game of the year. Who and how do they judge talent?
5) The team spent a lot of money on Massie and he isn't as good as what they are paying him. Who was involved in this?

6) Remember the preseason is the time to get the team ready. Was the team ready? In fact, many starters played limited time in the 4th preseason game. If we were the New England Patriots I could see players resting but not the Chicago Bears. When the regular season started Cutler was running for his life. Who is responsible? And it showed, with Cutler getting injured.

7) There were many drop balls during the season by the receiver's, it is the players responsibility and the coach's responsibility to be ready to play. Both player and coach failed in this respect. Remember the coach is there, 7 days a week, 24 hours a day, they should know the capability of their players and work with them on their deficiency's. On a side note did you know that there are three wide receivers that have been on the team for three years,
Bellamy, Wilson, and Jeffery. They should have been prepared. The coach takes the fault besides the player.

8) Who is responsible for assembling the roster. The GM and OC. How would you rate the roster?

9) During the year there were at least 4 times the team wasn't prepared to play? Who is responsible? HC, GM, OC, players?

10) Dan Hampton stated that the OC is just a play caller not a game planner.

11) Why didn't the OC have plays where Jay Cutler rolls to the left or the right instead of staying straight back, where the defensive line was just teeing off on Cutler? Other teams do it?

12) There were times they wouldn't stretch the defense out and throw it downfield?

13) Team had problems scoring in the red zone, and one of the fewest points on offense in the league.

14) The Bears had the second easiest schedule out of 32 teams in the league.

15) Who's idea was it to get rid of Forte, when they had other needs on offense, like a tight end and receivers and offensive line?
They could have kept Forte instead of creating another need when they already had holes to fill.

Conclusion:
These are the items that I used in evaluating the OC. One thing I would suggest is taking a look at the rosters from Wikipedia for the years 2014, 2015 and 2016. Has the team improved? Has the team progressed? It looks like to me that this is a repeat of the beginning of the year 2015. Who is going to be the quarterback, who are the receiver's, etc. In fact, the last press conference had no indication where this team is going, except for the saying "we got to get better". I don't get the impression that the team knows what direction they are taking.

Terrific Post. Good job!

 

[SuperDitkaMan]

Geez....some of you are kind of over literal with the carries thing and perhaps I went a FEW carries overboard (maybe 5-8 more carries???).

But bottom line is Bears DID NOT RUN ENOUGH. Anyone who argues that is just silly.

And GOOD GRIEF....for ANYBODY who cried about "injury risk", omg, quit being a girl. Because Jordan Howard would be the FIRST to tell you that you are a wuss and he wanted the ball more. And then right after him the coaches and all 52 of his teammates would call you a wuss too.
You dont play football worrying about injury risks unless youre a LOCK for the playoffs in week 16 or 17.

Injuries happen. Whether you're Lamarr Houston, tearing your own ACL while dancing or Jordan Howard getting hurt on the 1st or 30th carry. Howard usually had 16-18 carries. 25-30 carries is what starting RB's train for. Coaches don't spend the regular season worrying about inury until maybe the team is a LOCK at playing in the 2nd week of January.

 

[SuperDitkaMan]

Yeah, cause Special Teams coaches are the perfect candidate for Head Coach jobs. That's how the Bears got that moron Ditka, the most overrated HC in the history of the NFL

Many ST coaches are long tenured NFL coaches who can relate to players. Several are Assistant Head Coaches. They get stuck with the fringe roster guys and coach the most out of them. So I think it actually makes ST coaches IDEAL people to coach 53 guys.

I think i see what's going with hires like Vancce Joseph and Anthony Lynn. They were hired to be YES MEN to their GM or owners demands. Why else would a couple guys who've been POSITION COACHES the majority of their career be hired over experienced COORDINATORS like Shanahan and Toub? I guarantee guys like Joseph spent his entire interview with Elway saying "Yes sir, no siir". Probably didn't have the balls or brains to ask ONE stinking question about "What are YOU going to do to ensure MY program is successful?" Guys like Shanahan and Toub asked LOTS of questions I'm sure. Which scares off big ego's like Elway.

I'd take a SUCCESSFUL AND EXPERIENCED ST Coordinator like Toub in a HEARTBEAT over INEXPERIENCED questions marks like Joseph and Lynn.

On a good note for those 2 guys...it's a damn good year for the Rooney Rule I guess.

 

[ZenBear34]

When evaluating the OC I take the perspective of what is in the job of an OC.
For instance, drafting, player personnel decisions, getting team ready to play, scouting, play calling, having a game plan, etc.

Let's start with the preseason:
Was the team ready to start the regular season?

1) Now, Ted Larsen played three games at center in the preseason but someone decided to switch him and place Cody Whitehair in that position.
Cody never played center, therefore he was not prepared to play center. On a side note, a player needs to know what position he is going to play before the season starts so that he can prepare his body for that position (Tom Thayer stated this during a radio show talking to Cody as the guest, and Cody agreed with him).

2) Who's idea was it to switch the offensive line a week before the season started?
3) Who's idea was it to get rid of Slauson a productive offensive lineman, when you need starters and backups?
4) Jordan Howard wasn't identified as a productive running back until the 4th or 5th game of the year. Who and how do they judge talent?
5) The team spent a lot of money on Massie and he isn't as good as what they are paying him. Who was involved in this?

6) Remember the preseason is the time to get the team ready. Was the team ready? In fact, many starters played limited time in the 4th preseason game. If we were the New England Patriots I could see players resting but not the Chicago Bears. When the regular season started Cutler was running for his life. Who is responsible? And it showed, with Cutler getting injured.

7) There were many drop balls during the season by the receiver's, it is the players responsibility and the coach's responsibility to be ready to play. Both player and coach failed in this respect. Remember the coach is there, 7 days a week, 24 hours a day, they should know the capability of their players and work with them on their deficiency's. On a side note did you know that there are three wide receivers that have been on the team for three years,
Bellamy, Wilson, and Jeffery. They should have been prepared. The coach takes the fault besides the player.

8) Who is responsible for assembling the roster. The GM and OC. How would you rate the roster?

9) During the year there were at least 4 times the team wasn't prepared to play? Who is responsible? HC, GM, OC, players?

10) Dan Hampton stated that the OC is just a play caller not a game planner.

11) Why didn't the OC have plays where Jay Cutler rolls to the left or the right instead of staying straight back, where the defensive line was just teeing off on Cutler? Other teams do it?

12) There were times they wouldn't stretch the defense out and throw it downfield?

13) Team had problems scoring in the red zone, and one of the fewest points on offense in the league.

14) The Bears had the second easiest schedule out of 32 teams in the league.

15) Who's idea was it to get rid of Forte, when they had other needs on offense, like a tight end and receivers and offensive line?
They could have kept Forte instead of creating another need when they already had holes to fill.

Conclusion:
These are the items that I used in evaluating the OC. One thing I would suggest is taking a look at the rosters from Wikipedia for the years 2014, 2015 and 2016. Has the team improved? Has the team progressed? It looks like to me that this is a repeat of the beginning of the year 2015. Who is going to be the quarterback, who are the receiver's, etc. In fact, the last press conference had no indication where this team is going, except for the saying "we got to get better". I don't get the impression that the team knows what direction they are taking.

Every team has a different structure but offensive coordinators rarely have a lot of input into who is drafted or signed as they are not scouts. They may not even have input into who makes the roster, as head coaches or GMs often have final say. Of course they are involved but it tends to be more of "i need a deep threat at receiver" then choosing who specifically they select.

They moved the line around because Sitton became available. Whitehair was excellent at center, and they did not miss Slauson at all. Larsen and Kush were both solid backing up and the Bears should have one of the top 3 interior lines in the NFL next year. Blaming the o.c. for dropped passes is just...misguided. Bellamy is a special teamer and Merideth a college QB who is still learning the position. Does Loggain not get credit for his overall play, though?

No ones saying Loggains is perfect, but most of what you are talking about is either not his job, or totally out of his control.

And getting rid of Forte was clearly the right call.

 

[#FireEveryoneGeorge]

Loggains is a terrible play-caller. This pretty much sums it up.

http://www.dailyherald.com/article/20170108/sports/170109111/

And running the football was something the Bears did with great efficiency. Only three teams averaged more yards per carry than the Bears, who gained an average of 4.6 yards per attempt.

That begs the question: Why did only six teams run the ball fewer times than the Bears? Coach John Fox has repeatedly attempted to explain that away by saying early deficits forced the Bears to abandon the ground game.

It was a poor explanation then, and it's worse in hindsight. In 11 of their first 12 defeats, the Bears were no more than two possessions away from tying the game in the fourth quarter. Six of their losses were by 6 points or less.

In the Bears' three victories, they averaged 33 running plays per game. In their first 12 losses, they averaged 20.5 running plays.

The problem on offense was not the offensive line, but the offensive play-calling.

 

[SuperDitkaMan]

I love Howard and so far he's been an angel but...

what is this?????

(From a new article on NFL.com)

"I like the way Marshawn Lynch handled the media".....and later "he's a guy I'd want advice from".

Also insinuated Lynch would make a good coach. Yikes!

So far he's been an angel and fingers crossed he stays that way.

But remarks like that plant the first, miniscule, seed of doubt.

Hopefully he's a not a diva in 3 years when it's time to re-sign him long-term.

 

[Chicoman]

lol.

 

[hebs]

Ease back from the ledge man... The way I read into it was, he was more or less saying that if Marshawn would be willing, he'd like to get some pointers from him and maybe coach him a bit on some of the small nuances of the game. Growing up, he loved the way Lynch ran with power and never went down easily and it seems he'd like to glean some details from Lynch as to how he was able to do it for so long at such a high level.

All in all, he sounds like he'd rather not play the media's game. I can't blame him. I wouldn't either.

 

[SuperDitkaMan]

Granted their is worse people he could be looking up to, but Marshawn Lynch is a weirdo. I just hope humble little Howard isnt one too.

 

[Tjodalv]

Unless it affects his game, who fucking cares?

 

[optimus prime]

you're doing the Dikta namesake proud with the outdated crusty thinking and blatant racist undertones

 

[cubby chubby]

you're doing the Dikta namesake proud with the outdated crusty thinking and blatant racist undertones

Your underpants are crusty.

 

[MrDerp]

Howard actually reminds me of Lynch the way he runs the ball. Great vision and power. Don't care if he acts like Lynch also as long as he is producing like an elite back

 

[Applefan]

Supposedly Marshawn lynch socked away $40 million of his NFL earnings. THAT's a guy you want to listen to.

 

[wazzupi]

what is this?????

(From a new article on NFL.com)

"I like the way Marshawn Lynch handled the media".....and later "he's a guy I'd want advice from".

Also insinuated Lynch would make a good coach. Yikes!

So far he's been an angel and fingers crossed he stays that way.

But remarks like that plant the first, miniscule, seed of doubt.

Hopefully he's a not a diva in 3 years when it's time to re-sign him long-term.

What is this...