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the shoopster'll have to take your word for it. I never heard of the guy . . .
the shoopster'll have to take your word for it. I never heard of the guy . . .
RiDLer80
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My favorite teams
*Report leaks that Phillips is already meddling in the coaching search*
Bears PR department:
Bears PR department:
TL1961
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They were loyal to sub-par coach Ditka long after he should have been gone.
Weren't loyal to Payton? You realize he's dead, right?
billwade
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*Report leaks that Phillips is already meddling in the coaching search*
Bears PR department:
Hahahahaha. Funny as hell
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You're wrong about Ditka. Go check his record.
When he was fired in 1992, it was following a difficult year, but that year was used as justification to "move on." Similar to the Lovie firing, it appears in hindsight that the interest in moving on led to a series of hasty decisions that did not pay dividends.
Payton wanted in on ownership and/or front office operations of an NFL team. He had to go elsewhere to chase that dream. The McCaskeys didn't disrespect him, but they didn't bring him into the fold in a meaningful capacity either (even though I believe Payton was on the board, for whatever that's worth).
Don't misunderstand - the shoopster isn't suggesting the McCaskeys have a conscious dislike and hostility toward the players, coaches and front office personnel who brought the franchise glory. It's unconscious - they are looking to make their own mark and have been willing to scuttle the past in order to do that.
No one has helped facilitate the McCaskey agenda more than the Sweatster.
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ZOMBIE@CTESPN
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Probably has video on Michael jerking it to players showering in the locker after practice
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Infantile and befitting chicity's previous reputation as a haven for foul-mouthed, pimply-faced punks. Yet somehow amusing at the same time . . .
Teddy KGB
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Still think you are confusing him with Zach "Shill" Zaidman.
But while you call it a schtick, it's been reliably accurate. Results matter, and Dan has that.
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Teddy KGB
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Ted was not removed from the coaching search last time. Last time, Ted and the mccaskeys commissioned Ernie accorsi to find them their new head coach and general manager.
Even when they hire the new general manager in Ryan pace, they still went with Ernie on the coaching hire rather than letting Ryan decide his own coach. Ernie then gave his recommendation to Ted Phillips who then imparted it upon Ryan pace.
I would imagine it was probably an uncomfortable position for Ryan Pace to be in, but given the leaks that came out about ownership wanting their newer younger GM to have an older veteran coach for guidance muddied a lot of the waters and our what happens when you let non football people at least have a strong say in football decisions.
Ryan back then likely felt like he didn't have much of a choice and had to make the most of his opportunity now that he finally decided to jump to an organization.
The timeline based on reports as best I can gather was what happened above is how John Fox ended up here. In Year One there were reports of John Fox throwing his weight around Halas Hall, almost as if he were the one with more power than Ryan Pace. Also of interesting note was a report that came out during the season that Ryan Pace had wanted to move on from Jay Cutler, but ownership told him no, unless he is able to draft the replacement for him. What follows are reports in successive drafts of Ryan Pace trying to get first Marcus Mariota and the next Carson Wentz and failing both times because he simply didn't have enough pics with which to trade up to get those players. Also interesting to note is that rather than after the fact reporting, both these reports came out ahead of the drafts.
Fast forward to year two, and given the results on the field, the next year there were reports that John Fox's Act was wearing thin in Halas Hall.
Now fast-forward to this year. We have one report regarding the expansion of the Halas Hall facilities, which word describe is 100% Ryan Pace's baby. Now we have a report that comes out saying that Ted Phillips is only finding out who the available candidates are for Ryan Pace, along with assurances that Ryan Pace is the one who has final say on the head coach.
What this says to me is two things.
One is that Ryan Pace has been able to successfully point out where ownership has meddled and it has cost the organization. There are examples here of it happening.
Remember the report that the Bears initially really wanted Chris Ballard, but box when he wanted to significantly change the organizational structure. Chris Ballard knows how Halas Hall was run. The rumored change was to remove Ted Phillips from all football duties including operational duties. Chris Ballard would assume all control.
Ownership supposedly was shocked by this. It's obvious to anyone trying to run a football team, but to an insular family like the mccaskey's I would imagine them that their BFF Ted Phillips being poor in that role was a shock to them because they had no basis for comparison.
What I am seeing is that Ryan Pace has also figured out what Chris Ballard knew. However, it appears he is playing the long game and is pointing out specifically to the family what decisions are his and what decisions are Ted Phillips. I think the results have been eye-opening and sobering.
Don't get me wrong. I don't think the mccaskey's would ever fire Ted Philips. But I think he's slowly has been given the Krane Kenney treatment. The evidence I give of that is the app for mentioned expansion of Halas Hall. People don't understand what a big deal it is that that is described as 100% Ryan Pace.
Building structure purchases and expansions have historically Fallen completely under the purview of Ted Phillips. Ted Phillips negotiated the new stadium deal that was so awful for the mccaskeys, and yet the mccaskeys are so out of touch that they love Ted because they thought the stadium deal was fantastic.
That a change in building structure and an expansion be put completely under the charge of Ryan pace is the first significant evidence away from the football field that Ryan Pace has assumed full operational general manager duties.
Likewise, at this juncture and given the massive reports of Team meddling leading up to this point, it is in the mccaskeys best interests to allow Ryan Pace to have full control.
The reason here is that if he does indeed fail at this juncture, they can have quick justification to replace him. They can easily say "it's all on him" and fall back on their old ways of doing things.
Which is why it is in the team's best interests and the fans best interests that Ryan Pace succeed. If he does, the old way of doing things will be gone. If Ryan pace Nails the coaching hire and the bears become perennial playoff contenders, the Bears will get comfortable with a new way of doing things. If Ryan Pace fails and is fired, that will only reinforce in their minds that how they did things before was the way they should have always been done. It's the wrong message for the mccaskeys to learn, but they are dumb enough to believe it.
I go back until late last year when George McCaskey was interviewed. People then wanted to light the Torches and pitchforks. George preached patience while at the same time looking like someone had just shot his dog. I am thinking that this was likely some of the transitioning stages of pulling power from the McCaskey BFF Ted Phillips and showing them exactly how inept Ted has been.
This is part of the reason why I am pulling for Ryan Pace. It goes beyond the man himself. If he succeeds, the Bears front office will no longer be a joke. If he fails, then ownership will look at running a front office in the proper NFL way as a failed experiment, not because they got the wrong guy, but because they're ass backwards way of doing things in their mind will have been completely Justified and right.
That is why Bears fans more than ever shouldn't be clamoring for Ryan Pace to be fired. Because if he is at this stage of the game, the Chicago Bears now and forever will be the NFC equivalent of the Cleveland Browns until such time as they are sold. And even then it's always possible they get sold to a Tribune company type of organization or another idiot. There's no guarantee the next owner will be better than this group.
That is why the future is now for the Bears. If they don't get this right, Chicago Bears are fucked for the next 50 years at least.
I don't think Ryan pace is an Ozzie Newsome level of GM by a long shot. I would actually have him as a B- to C + general manager, who despite being only slightly above-average, at least is getting the Bears Talent trending in the right direction overall, even if he is making missteps along the way.
But I am pulling for Ryan Pace. Because if he doesn't get this right, we're fucked. And he actually does have a chance at getting this right. I see real potential and Mitch trubisky. Other Scouts and former Scouts see it too. They need to get the right coach in here.
The only way this organization stabilizes is a professional NFL front office is for Ryan pace to get some pelts on the wall while being the Chicago Bears GM. If he can get justification for his way of doing things, in the front office can get used to it, then at the very least when pace is done, they look for the next Ryan pace. If Pace fails, then it won't matter who they bring in because Ted Phillips will still be fucking everything up.
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This is good reading and an interesting hypothesis, but there's not enough to support your belief that the Bears right now are trying to run a "normal" front office in which the GM is free to operate without the type of meddling "Sweaty" Teddy is known for. The troubling report that Phillips himself is working the phones on the HC search - since diffused with a softer leak through friendly media sources that the Sweatster was only checking contract terms once the Bears saw how astute their fanbase is to the poisonous pull of the perspiring paisan - runs counter to your theory. The HC search isn't in negotiation mode, so what is Phillips doing there? You mean to tell the shoopster Ryan "Snails" Pace doesn't already know which of the candidates he's interested in him have existing 2018 contracts? That part of the story doesn't wash, and it just happened this week. So the dysfunction remains.
The idea that Pace is savvy enough to absorb Phillips's bad ideas while conscientiously objecting only to politely say "I told you so" when they blow up - like the supposed ownership edict that Pace and Fox stick with Cutler year one - suggests that while Pace may be implementing some grand long-term plan that will slowly revolutionize the way the McCaskey family runs the team, he also isn't willing to stand his ground when faced with the type of meddling that we're told made Chris Ballard run quickly in the other direction after being rebuffed in his efforts to get the job straightened out day one. The Bears don't need another politicker in the front office; Phillips does enough of that for everyone. And nobody - certainly not Ryan Pace - is going to out-politic Ted Phillips.
TL1961
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I am not at all hoping to see Pace fired.
First, I think Pace has done alright, and does not deserve to be fired.
Second, I recognize stability is important. I don't want the Bears to retain Fox right now, but firing two coaches with a total of five years on the job is not the kind of pattern one wants. Firing two GM's also.....looks like a dumpster fire.
First, I think Pace has done alright, and does not deserve to be fired.
Second, I recognize stability is important. I don't want the Bears to retain Fox right now, but firing two coaches with a total of five years on the job is not the kind of pattern one wants. Firing two GM's also.....looks like a dumpster fire.
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Well. There's no way Fox can stay on. So that change is going to be made.
Whether people think Pace deserves to be fired, the Bears have lost 71% of their games since he got here. That's very difficult to defend, so he's certainly vulnerable.
As for perception, there's no doubt that "King" George is a roaring dumpster fire as Chairman. Nice guy, but he's awful. So whether Pace stays or not, that's already accepted around the league. I do agree, though, that if the Bears are going to fire Pace, they have to replace him with an inspired candidate AND MUST MOVE PHILLIPS OUT OF FOOTBALL DECISION-MAKING. if they're not willing to do that, there's no point in making a move with Pace, because no GM worth his salt is going to come here at this point without that change. Like him or not, Chris Ballard knew of the Phillips dysfunction first hand and ran away from the GM job when the Bears declined addressing it, leaving them with a GM who is 14-and-33 . . .
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It's shit like this that shows the Bears just need to hire a Team President of Football Ops. They don't fully trust their young GM and Ted is a bufoon. The owners will always be football incompetent and there is no fixing that unless they sell.
Teddy KGB
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What Bernstein reported made sense - Ted was doing legwork in reaching out to teams and finding out who will be fired and who will be retained to get a working list of candidates who will be available, which will then be presented to Pace - not as a final list, but as a way of ruling out coaches who may be reported on the hot seat yet will actually be retained. The explanation was that this work was something that ALL NFL teams do, and the person on each NFL team in Ted's position is normally the one responsible for compiling the list, so that while it may seem like "meddling" to those unfamiliar to standard NFL practices, this is actually NFL business as usual for most NFL teams looking to replace a coach.
I'm going to suggest another idea, Shoopster.
If Ted Phillips is indeed losing power to Ryan Pace, and also feels threatened by losing influence with the McCaskeys, couldn't he himself float out ideas that he is meddling in the process as well as "leak" to reporters that Ryan Pace's job is in danger, in the hopes to ferment them into reality?
In theory, Ted DOES have power to fire Ryan, but it would be a VERY bad look to fire him when his power is threatened. He needs to prove himself right to the McCaskeys and the McCaskeys alone. I could see Zach Zaidman actually as a mouthpiece for Ted Phillips, quite easily.
As far as the whole "Pace not standing his ground" thing, that macho BS might sell well, but Pace's approach is more Sun Tzu than **** You, which is why I think it could conceivably be legit, while the Ballard approach may appeal short term to fans, it won't actually result in the team WE CHEER FOR getting better...
Teddy KGB
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No guarantees that who they sell to won't be worse.
Given what we have now, its entirely possible we have a GM who is skillfully and slowly taking control of the football operations like a real GM. I'll take slowly over never.
TL1961
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Yeah, everybody knows all that.
Fox needs to go. Nobody is arguing that in the least.
Ballard got out because of how the Bears run things.
The Bears, when Pace was hired, were devoid of young talent. The few decent players they had were old. It was, as has been rehashed here 1000 times, a total rebuild. No sane person thinks that is a one year job. And before you start pointing to turnarounds from one year to the next, teams who are good one year after having a bad record the previous year were not rebuilt in a year.
Pace took over a roster with no playmakers, no depth, no QB. It's a little easier when you're so bad you pick #1, and grab your QB, but if you're unlucky enough to suck as bad as the Bears did but not have a high enough pick, it takes a while.
I would like to have Chris Ballard still with the organization, but while we're pointing out records, Ballard, in his lone year as GM, has a worse record than the awful Bears. "He" has won 40% fewer games, in fact. (Now do you see how ridiculous that is?)
TL1961
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TL1961
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If Ted - or anyone else - is getting a list of people who will be fired, thus available - they are looking at the wrong people. There is not a single coach getting fired that we should consider. (Assuming Arians is not going to keep coaching, which I believe is a safe assumption.) Unless we're interested in Marvin Lewis, Vance Joseph, the clown from the Giants, etc.
Jim Caldwell? No thanks.
Jason Garrett? No thanks.
Jack Del Rio? No thanks.
etc.
"more Sun Tzu than **** You"
billwade
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How many years since the sweatster was named President (2001) have we speculated that THIS time the McCaskeys would see the obvious and remove him from football operations? Meanwhile, sweat ted simply endures.
As a result, I take the report about the sweatster compiling a list of potential coaching candidates at 100% face value. He's reminded us numerous times over the years that he is in charge and the GM reports to him. If ted's decided that he wants to choose the next HC, that's just the way it will be. He might give Pace a list of candidates that he (sweaty) would be willing to interview and allow Pace to set up the interviews, but there's no reason to believe that the process is going to change in any way.
I imagine the Bears will utilize their media training and ultimately claim it's Pace's decision, but I doubt he'll be the one who makes the final call. In the McCaskey's bizarro world view of football, ted's a very valuable and knowledgeable member of the team, and your view as a fan only further reinforces their belief that you are a working class idiot.
As a result, I take the report about the sweatster compiling a list of potential coaching candidates at 100% face value. He's reminded us numerous times over the years that he is in charge and the GM reports to him. If ted's decided that he wants to choose the next HC, that's just the way it will be. He might give Pace a list of candidates that he (sweaty) would be willing to interview and allow Pace to set up the interviews, but there's no reason to believe that the process is going to change in any way.
I imagine the Bears will utilize their media training and ultimately claim it's Pace's decision, but I doubt he'll be the one who makes the final call. In the McCaskey's bizarro world view of football, ted's a very valuable and knowledgeable member of the team, and your view as a fan only further reinforces their belief that you are a working class idiot.
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