The 401k sham

[Omeletpants]

No. If the only way to enjoy old age outside of povery is to gamble on the market by giving your money to corporations, there's something far wrong with the system.

Look at the chart again. It's only a gmble if you are invested for the short term. If you are invested long term it's a pretty sure thing you will make crazy money

 

[Omeletpants]

I've been maxing out 401k since I was 25 and I just don't seeing hitting a million, though it's possible in the next 20-25 years.We don't have a choice as to which companies we want to invest in specifically, we just pick a mutual fund. You only have a certain limit each year you can invest.

You don't pick the companies, but you pick a fund based upon risk profiles, then they pick the stock. You arent the expert, so let them decide cause that's what they do

 

[Jester]

You don't pick the companies, but you pick a fund based upon risk profiles, then they pick the stock. You arent the expert, so let them decide cause that's what they do

Yes I agree with you. You just said if you don't hit 1 mil it's essentially your own fault. That isn't true, because by the time I retire I will have been maxing 401k for 30-40 years. Right now it's not looking that great, though it could happen and I hope it does.

Problem with Social security is that you need to know when to pull out of high risk stock mutual funds into more fixed return. I have seen people lose tremendous amoutns of money in ene year and force them to postpone retirement.

 

[Omeletpants]

Yes I agree with you. You just said if you don't hit 1 mil it's essentially your own fault. That isn't true, because by the time I retire I will have been maxing 401k for 30-40 years.

I dont know your situation but Im betting you are selling yourslef short on where you will be

 

[bearmick]

Look at the chart again. It's only a gmble if you are invested for the short term. If you are invested long term it's a pretty sure thing you will make crazy money

What about the millions of people who's employer doesn't offer that? Or the millions more who can barely pay their bills on what they make and don't have anything left over to invest in private retirement funds. That's what SS was supposed to be for, and it was working fine until it was raided to pay for an unneccsary war.

 

[Jester]

I dont know your situation but Im betting you are selling yourslef short on where you will be

It's possible Omelet, and I do hope you are right. Right now I am about 1/3rd of the way there and 1/2 of my career is done. So, at that rate, I will not reach my milestone.

 

[Jester]

What about the millions of people who's employer doesn't offer that? Or the millions more who can barely pay thier bills on what they make and don't have anything left over to invest in private retirement funds. That's what SS was supposed to be for, and it was working fine until it's fund was raided to pay for an unneccsary war.

If they didn't have to pay a ridiculous amount of SS and taxes they would be able to invest in private retirment accounts. If people cannot pay their bills period they won't be able to when they are on SS either.

 

[bearmick]

If they didn't have to pay a ridiculous amount of SS and taxes they would be able to invest in private retirment accounts.

LMAO. Step back and think about what you're saying here.

SS was a public retirement fund which worked fine until it was raided to pay for other things. That was the people's money. How fucking brainwashed are you? you're so obsessed with the idea of private money that you can't even see what's going on. Nobody should HAVE to invest in private corporations in order to retire. SS was a perfectly legitimate and well organized public retirement fund, and it still SHOULD be. But you're so brainwashed by right wing economics that you consdier the contributions to be theft.

United we stand, divided we fall. And thanks to the sheep like you who swallow every load of economic poison the capitalists unload on you, we always will be divided.

 

[Jester]

LMAO. Step back and think about what you're saying here.

SS was a public retirement fund which worked fine until it was raided to pay for other things. That was the people's money. How fucking brainwashed are you? you're so obsessed with the idea of private money that you can't even see what's going on. Nobody should HAVE to invest in private corporations in order to retire. SS was a perfectly legitimate and well organized public retirement fund, and it still SHOULD be. But you're so brainwashed by right wing economics that you consdier the contributions to be theft.

United we stand, divided we fall. And thanks to the sheep like you who swallow every load of economic poison the capitalists unload on you, we always will be divided.

EXACTLY. You are telling me SS was ok until IT WAS STOLEN FROM US by politicians. Then you go on to criticize me because I have more faith in private companies. ARE YOU KIDDING ME?! You say I need to trust the Government more and said that the Government is OURS? You are high as a kite bearmick. If you think raiding SS, Pensions, and other corrupt activity is wanted BY THE PEOPLE then you are crazy.

 

[Jester]

If the Government isn't in the business of holding peoples' money then it should be able to regulate it more fairly for the people. In other words, you NEVER make the Government "Judge, Jury, and Executioner". That only BREEDS corruption. When you outright rip people off and don't get punished for it like Government officials then it will breed more corruption.

If you aren't holding the money you will be a more fair and hopefully less corrupt regulator.

 

[bearmick]

EXACTLY. You are telling me SS was ok until IT WAS STOLEN FROM US by politicians. Then you go on to criticize me because I have more faith in private companies. ARE YOU KIDDING ME?! You say I need to trust the Government more and said that the Government is OURS? You are high as a kite bearmick. If you think raiding SS, Pensions, and other corrupt activity is wanted BY THE PEOPLE then you are crazy.

That's why we need to change the way government can behave. We need radical chage that stops this corrupt relationship between government and big industry. we need to do that because the public deserves and needs proper, fair, well run government for the people.

I think we agree on that. Where we differ is that I want to change it, with a revolution if necessary, whereas you seem to just want to accept that it is what it is and abondon government rather than change it. But a population without a strong government on its side is a weak and divided population.

 

[Jester]

That's why we need to change the way government can behave. We need radical chage that stops this corrupt relationship between government and big industry. we need to do that because the public deserves and needs proper, fair, well run government for the people.

I think we agree on that. Where we differ is that I want to change it, with a revolution if necessary, whereas you seem to just want to accept that it is what it is and abondon government rather than change it. But a population without a strong government on its side is a weak and divided population.

Bearmick I agree with you on all accounts in your post. However, you and I would have completely different ideas on how to accomplish this.

 

[bearmick]

Bearmick I agree with you on all accounts in your post. However, you and I would have completely different ideas on how to accomplish this.

Probably. You said this ... "If you aren't holding the money you will be a more fair and hopefully less corrupt regulator". Look at the facts.

1) The government is in cahoots with big corporations.

2) The government has raided and destroyed social security as well as just about every other meaningful institution of public insurance.

3) This causes people to flee to the private sector and funnel all wealth into investing in the same corporations the government is in cahoots with in point 1.

Why are we as a people so blind to this? There's a group of very wealthy and powerful people who control the way our economy operates (they're invovled with both industry and government - we know this because of the amount of people in gov't positions who are also on the board of directors of said corps). Their goal is to funnel the wealth of the people from the public kitty and into private ownership.

Same thing with the massive amount of money we spend on the military. They're not used to protect our freedom, they're used to secure corporate interests across the world, but PAID FOR by the taxpayer.

There are countless examples of this, but they all amount to the same end game - using the government as a conduit to transfer wealth to the powerful. It's called corporate welfare and it's everywhere. But people are brainwashed into being angry about people getting food stamps rather than this dispicable tyranny.

 

[Omeletpants]

What about the millions of people who's employer doesn't offer that? Or the millions more who can barely pay their bills on what they make and don't have anything left over to invest in private retirement funds. That's what SS was supposed to be for, and it was working fine until it was raided to pay for an unneccsary war.

I'm not talking about SS or a holistic retirement plan

 

[Jester]

Probably. You said this ... "If you aren't holding the money you will be a more fair and hopefully less corrupt regulator". Look at the facts.

1) The government is in cahoots with big corporations.

2) The government has raided and destroyed social security as well as just about every other meaningful institution of public insurance.

3) This causes people to flee to the private sector and funnel all wealth into investing in the same corporations the government is in cahoots with in point 1.

Why are we as a people so blind to this? There's a group of very wealthy and powerful people who control the way our economy operates (they're invovled with both industry and government - we know this because of the amount of people in gov't positions who are also on the board of directors of said corps). Their goal is to funnel the wealth of the people from the public kitty and into private ownership.

Same thing with the massive amount of money we spend on the military. They're not used to protect our freedom, they're used to secure corporate interests across the world, but PAID FOR by the taxpayer.

There are countless examples of this, but they all amount to the same end game - using the government as a conduit to transfer wealth to the powerful. It's called corporate welfare and it's everywhere. But people are brainwashed into being angry about people getting food stamps rather than this dispicable tyranny.

Bearmick, I agree with you, I do. The problem is that there isn't a great solution to this problem due to human nature. People in positions of power will become corrupt, especially when they don't have to answer to anyone. Are Government has simply gained too much power over the years, and politicians/lobbyists have been institutionalized. There are answers to make it better right now but far from perfect.

 

[Omeletpants]

It's possible Omelet, and I do hope you are right. Right now I am about 1/3rd of the way there and 1/2 of my career is done. So, at that rate, I will not reach my milestone.

Einstein said the most amazing thing in the world is the effect of compound interest. The US Stock market has been compound interest on steroids for 90 years

 

[Mitchapalooza]

I keep seeing "SS" in here and can't help but think of this every time.

 

[Jester]

Einstein said the most amazing thing in the world is the effect of compound interest. The US Stock market has been compound interest on steroids for 90 years

Well I hope it compounds more quickly

 

[Omeletpants]

Well I hope it compounds more quickly

Have faith. Like I said find out what the smartest money guys in your company are doing

Eventually you might want to hire a money manager for your portfolio. I dicked around for years trying to do it myself and made lots of mistakes. Eventually, I hooked up with portfolio managers at Fidelity and did good and now with Fisher Investments and doing even better. The benefit dwarfs the management costs