The all homegrown team, all teams, great reference material.

JP Hochbaum

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http://itsaboutthemoney.net/archives/2013/08/12/the-all-homegrown-mlb/

Chicago Cubs
Starting Pitchers
• Andrew Cashner
• Jon Garland
• Kyle Lohse
• Ricky Nolasco
• Jeff Samardzija
Bullpen
• Al Alburquerque
• Jerry Blevins
• Scott Downs
• Rich Hill
• Carlos Marmol
• Sean Marshall
• James Russell
Catchers
• Jose Molina
• Geovany Soto
Infielders
• Darwin Barney
• Starlin Castro
• Ronny Cedeno
• Josh Donaldson
• Hak-Ju Lee
• Josh Vitters
Outfielders
• Tony Campana
• Tyler Colvin
• Sam Fuld
• Brett Jackson
• Junior Lake

Now this is a bad team. There’s some young talent in Cashner and Castro (and, possibly, Vitters, Jackson, and Lake) … but these Cubs would be in the running for the first pick of the draft, with its average rotation appearing to be its greatest strength. This makes Theo Epstein’s slash-and-burn rebuild seem all the more necessary.
 

patg006

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Holy revisionist history batman!

Matt Murton, Kris Johnson, Caleb Klay, Nick Hagadone, Ryan Dent, Casey Kelly, Reymond Fuentes, Ronald Bermudez.

But there was some talent in Elsbury, Bucholz, Pedroia (and possibly others) but a team with guys listed above would also be running for first pick of the draft too.

I can play this game too......
 

SilenceS

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Who cares? Hendry is gone. He should not be blamed for this team anymore. Theo and them did there rebuild and yes, we have some very good prospects. We absolutely have the best position players in the minors. We also have big time power in the minors. Pitching is going to be the hardest part. Thats where big market comes in. This team will be good again. They have to many young prospects succeeding in the minors for them all to bust. It is a combo of Theo and Hendry players. Its a group effort. Its time to go after some FA and start sliding these young kids in from year to year.

You are realistically looking at a AA team starting out next year of Baez, Bryant, Soler, Alcantara plus and they should all hit AAA sometime in 2014. Your A to AA players is going to consist of Candeleiro, Volgy, Almora, Pierce Johnson. Dillon Maples has made really good strides in Boise. The kids are getting close guys and I am banking my baseball knowledge on a couple are going to be good players.

Hopefully, we get a high pick and get a top of the rotation starter next year in the draft then the Cubs are going to be on the cusp of building something really good. Stop with all the sides. Lets be Cubs fans and temper expectations, but also be excited that this team does have a future and it is not as far off as it sometimes feels.

I have never bought a Cubs jersey just because I dont wear Jerseys much unless its my Bree's jersey. But, when Baez hits Chicago. Im jumping on that train!!! I have a man crush with his bat speed and instincts.
 

The Bandit

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Who cares? Hendry is gone. He should not be blamed for this team anymore. Theo and them did there rebuild and yes, we have some very good prospects. We absolutely have the best position players in the minors. We also have big time power in the minors. Pitching is going to be the hardest part. Thats where big market comes in. This team will be good again. They have to many young prospects succeeding in the minors for them all to bust. It is a combo of Theo and Hendry players. Its a group effort. Its time to go after some FA and start sliding these young kids in from year to year.

You are realistically looking at a AA team starting out next year of Baez, Bryant, Soler, Alcantara plus and they should all hit AAA sometime in 2014. Your A to AA players is going to consist of Candeleiro, Volgy, Almora, Pierce Johnson. Dillon Maples has made really good strides in Boise. The kids are getting close guys and I am banking my baseball knowledge on a couple are going to be good players.

Hopefully, we get a high pick and get a top of the rotation starter next year in the draft then the Cubs are going to be on the cusp of building something really good. Stop with all the sides. Lets be Cubs fans and temper expectations, but also be excited that this team does have a future and it is not as far off as it sometimes feels.

I have never bought a Cubs jersey just because I dont wear Jerseys much unless its my Bree's jersey. But, when Baez hits Chicago. Im jumping on that train!!! I have a man crush with his bat speed and instincts.

:clap: this post . Bravo

Sent from my ASUS Transformer Pad TF700T using Xparent Skyblue Tapatalk 2
 

Flacco4Prez

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That team is worse than the team we have now. That list makes me sick
 

JP Hochbaum

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That team is worse than the team we have now. That list makes me sick

Yeah the reason I posted it is to show that the team really needed a total dismantling, and to build a strong base first.
 

KBisBack!

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Yeah the reason I posted it is to show that the team really needed a total dismantling, and to build a strong base first.

The dismantling of the team has not helped in building the strong base at all.

But you don't have to sacrifice major league seasons or give away major league players to build a strong base.

The strong base can be built at the same time that competitive and even winning baseball is being played at the major league level.

It isn't a choice or either/or. You can do BOTH.
 

nwfisch

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My favorite teams
  1. Chicago Cubs
  1. Minnesota United FC
  1. Chicago Bulls
  1. Chicago Bears
  1. Chicago Blackhawks
  1. Notre Dame Fighting Irish
The dismantling of the team has not helped in building the strong base at all.

But you don't have to sacrifice major league seasons or give away major league players to build a strong base.

The strong base can be built at the same time that competitive and even winning baseball is being played at the major league level.

It isn't a choice or either/or. You can do BOTH.

And teams can also supplement their pieces by adding FAs. Not just banking on all of the prospects hitting it big at the same time.
 

JP Hochbaum

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The dismantling of the team has not helped in building the strong base at all.

But you don't have to sacrifice major league seasons or give away major league players to build a strong base.

The strong base can be built at the same time that competitive and even winning baseball is being played at the major league level.

It isn't a choice or either/or. You can do BOTH.
What is the point of winning games or being competitive if you won't make the playoffs or win a WS? You just lose out on more assets by tricking yourself into thinking you could win.
 

patg006

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What is the point of winning games or being competitive if you won't make the playoffs or win a WS? You just lose out on more assets by tricking yourself into thinking you could win.

The goal every year should be to win the world series.

And there are successful mid round draft picks, so tanking seasons should not be a priority. International spending too. Where was Mike Trout picked again in the draft? First? Second?

If you have a chance to win/are in a race, god damn right I would lose 'assets' to gain players for a shot at now.....ignoring needs in a division or wc race is something the Pirates did for 20 something years......

What could the Nationals have done last year if they didnt shut down Stratsburg?
 

KBisBack!

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What is the point of winning games or being competitive if you won't make the playoffs or win a WS? You just lose out on more assets by tricking yourself into thinking you could win.

The point of professional sports is winning as many games as possible, even if you don't make the playoffs or win a WS.

To think otherwise is the total loser mentality I keep bringing up.

You don't lose out on more assets by winning games.

Winning teams generally draw more fans than losing teams. Cash is an asset.

Winning teams generally are more attractive to free agents. Free Agents are an asset.

Winning teams have been able to draft in the middle and late of the first round and still built strong farm systems. It isn't like winning teams are penalized for having to forfeit their first 3 draft picks. They still pick in the first round like the losing teams.

I have pointed out the multiple top major league players who were drafted outside the top 10 picks. Mike Trout, Jose Fernandez, Chris Sale, Jered Weaver, Chase Utley, Adam Wainwright, David Wright, Dustin Pedroia, Jacoby Ellsbury, Jon Lester, Nick Swisher, Cole Hamels, Matt Cain, Chad Billingsley, Carlos Quentin, Adam Jones, Neil Walker, Billy Butler, Stephen Drew, Gio Gonzalez, Huston Street, Andrew McCutchen, Matt Garza, Clay Bucholtz, Jed Lowrie, Max Scherzer, Chris Perez, Jason Heyward, Josh Donaldson, Andrew Cashner, Shelby Miller, Rex Brothers, Tyler Skaggs, and Travis D'Arnaud are just some of the players taken outside the top 10 picks of the draft.

What is the point of spending all the extra money on scouting if you are just going to throw away seasons and draft in the top 5?

What is the point of hiring Theo Epstein who everyone falls over themselves about the farm system he built in Boston while winning games and picking at the end of the first round if you are just going to throw away seasons and draft in the top 5?

Guess Baltimore and Oakland shouldn't have tried to trick themselves into thinking they could make the playoffs last year, right?

Oakland lost 88 games in 2011 and made the playoffs last year. Baltimore lost 93 games in 2011 and made the playoffs last year.

Guess the Royals shouldn't have tricked themselves into thinking they could be a competitive team this year, right?

The Royals lost 90 games last year and are in the playoff chase for the first time in a decade.
 

mountsalami

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You don't lose out on more assets by winning games.

I remember asking before but received no answer. Not sure why.

What is this definition of "asset" that can seemingly be lost by winning games ?

ET-The-Extra-Terre_1498982c.jpg
 

KBisBack!

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What is this definition of "asset" that can seemingly be lost by winning games ?

The "asset" is a high draft pick that results in a prospect :fap::fap::fap::fap::fap::fap::fap::fap::fap::fap::fap::fap:

Since everyone is convinced that drafting high is the only possible way of getting a good player, let's uncover the facts.

I will look at the top 10 picks in the draft from the years 2000-2009. A ten year period and should be enough time to have players at least reach the majors.

2000 - #1 overall pick, Adrian Gonzalez. Very solid, if not great, player. The only other players to get 300 or more major league AB's are Rocco Baldeli and Luis Montanez. Adam Johnson pitched in 9 major league games with a 10.25 ERA and Justin Wayne pitched in 26 games with a career 6.13 ERA. Five players never even reached the majors.

2001 - You have Joe Mauer and Mark Teixeira. Mauer a great player, Teixeira above average for his career. Mark Prior could have been great if not for some bad breaks but he can't be seen as an above average major league player, but I will be generous and give him an average ranking. Gavin Floyd, I will give him an average ranking. Dewon Brazleton a 6.38 ERA in 63 games. John Van Benschoten 9.20 ERA in 26 games. Chris Burke .239 BA in 1267 games. All sucked, and three picks never made it to the majors.

2002 - You have Zack Greinke and Prince Fielder. Above average without a doubt. BJ Upton I will give an average ranking to. Bryan Bullington, Jeff Francis, Adam Loewen, Drew Meyer and Scott Moore were all below average players and two didn't make it.

2003 - I'll be generous and give Nick Markakis an above average rating since he has the highest career WAR, oh boy. Delmon Young, Richie Weeks, Tim Stauffer, Paul Maholm and John Danks will get average ranks. Ian Stewart gets a below average rating and three never made the majors.

2004 - Justin Verlander definitely gets an above average ranking. I'll give Homer Bailey an average ranking. Phillip Humber, Jeff Niemann, Mark Rogers, Jeremy Sowers, Chris Nelson and Thomas Diamond all below average and 2 never made the majors, including the #1 overall pick Matt Bush.

2005 - Justin Upton, Alex Gordon, Ryan Zimmerman, Ryan Braun and Troy Tulowitzki, all above average players. No average players. Jeff Clement, Ricky Romero, Cameron Maybin and Mike Pelfrey below average and one player didn't make it.

2006 - Evan Longoria, Clayton Kershaw and Tim Lincecum above average players. Brandon Morrow ill be generous and call average. Luke Hochevar, Greg Reynolds, Brad Lincoln, Andrew Miller and Drew Stubbs below average and one player didn't make it.

2007 - David Price, Madison Bumgarner and Matt Weiters above average players. Ross Detwiler and Jarrod Parker average players. Mike Moustakas, Josh Vitters, Daniel Moskos and Matt Laporta below average players and one player didn't make it.

2008 - Buster Posey above average player. Eric Hosmer and Pedro Alvarez average players. Brian Matusz, Kyle Skipworth, Yonder Alonso, Gordon Beckham, Aaron Crow and Jason Castro below average and the #1 pick Tim Beckham hasn't made it to the majors.

2009 - Stephen Strasburg above average player. Zach Wheeler, Mike Minor, Mike Leake, and Jacob Turner average players as of now, have potential to be above average for their careers. Tony Sanchez, Drew Storen and Dustin Ackley below average and two players have yet to make it.

So my totals give me 20 above average players, 18 average players, 41 below average players and 21 have yet to make an appearance at the major league level.

Right now the Cubs have 4 'cost controlled' young players in Castro, Rizzo, Wood and Shark and people are saying that isn't near enough to start spending in FA and build around.

So I guess that means you would need to draft at 3-4 above average players before people think it would be wise to spend in FA.

Only problem is, on average, you would only get 2 above average players if you drafted in the top 10 for 10 straight seasons. That isn't enough.

Let's get crazy and say that the genius Theo and all this money put into scouting pays off and the Cubs draft twice as well as the historical facts show that you should draft and DO get all 4 above average players in that 10 year period. Great.

Not so fast.

What if you draft those players in years 1,3,6 and 10 of the ten year period??

Well by the time you have drafted your 4th player, the first player likely has already hit free agency and may not be in a hurry to stay with a team that just picked in the top 10 the last ten seasons and the player you drafted in year three could be approaching free agency so if you already arent back under that 4 above average player threshold to start spending in FA, you have a very small window unless you start hitting on even more of those top ten picks.

The odds of getting an above average player through the draft and minors is just so small that it is very, very difficult to be successful enough at it to maintain a steady supply of talent.

But that is just me not providing any facts again.
 

ClydeLee

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The "asset" is a high draft pick that results in a prospect :fap::fap::fap::fap::fap::fap::fap::fap::fap::fap::fap::fap:

Since everyone is convinced that drafting high is the only possible way of getting a good player, let's uncover the facts.

I will look at the top 10 picks in the draft from the years 2000-2009. A ten year period and should be enough time to have players at least reach the majors.

2000 - #1 overall pick, Adrian Gonzalez. Very solid, if not great, player. The only other players to get 300 or more major league AB's are Rocco Baldeli and Luis Montanez. Adam Johnson pitched in 9 major league games with a 10.25 ERA and Justin Wayne pitched in 26 games with a career 6.13 ERA. Five players never even reached the majors.

2001 - You have Joe Mauer and Mark Teixeira. Mauer a great player, Teixeira above average for his career. Mark Prior could have been great if not for some bad breaks but he can't be seen as an above average major league player, but I will be generous and give him an average ranking. Gavin Floyd, I will give him an average ranking. Dewon Brazleton a 6.38 ERA in 63 games. John Van Benschoten 9.20 ERA in 26 games. Chris Burke .239 BA in 1267 games. All sucked, and three picks never made it to the majors.

2002 - You have Zack Greinke and Prince Fielder. Above average without a doubt. BJ Upton I will give an average ranking to. Bryan Bullington, Jeff Francis, Adam Loewen, Drew Meyer and Scott Moore were all below average players and two didn't make it.

2003 - I'll be generous and give Nick Markakis an above average rating since he has the highest career WAR, oh boy. Delmon Young, Richie Weeks, Tim Stauffer, Paul Maholm and John Danks will get average ranks. Ian Stewart gets a below average rating and three never made the majors.

2004 - Justin Verlander definitely gets an above average ranking. I'll give Homer Bailey an average ranking. Phillip Humber, Jeff Niemann, Mark Rogers, Jeremy Sowers, Chris Nelson and Thomas Diamond all below average and 2 never made the majors, including the #1 overall pick Matt Bush.

2005 - Justin Upton, Alex Gordon, Ryan Zimmerman, Ryan Braun and Troy Tulowitzki, all above average players. No average players. Jeff Clement, Ricky Romero, Cameron Maybin and Mike Pelfrey below average and one player didn't make it.

2006 - Evan Longoria, Clayton Kershaw and Tim Lincecum above average players. Brandon Morrow ill be generous and call average. Luke Hochevar, Greg Reynolds, Brad Lincoln, Andrew Miller and Drew Stubbs below average and one player didn't make it.

2007 - David Price, Madison Bumgarner and Matt Weiters above average players. Ross Detwiler and Jarrod Parker average players. Mike Moustakas, Josh Vitters, Daniel Moskos and Matt Laporta below average players and one player didn't make it.

2008 - Buster Posey above average player. Eric Hosmer and Pedro Alvarez average players. Brian Matusz, Kyle Skipworth, Yonder Alonso, Gordon Beckham, Aaron Crow and Jason Castro below average and the #1 pick Tim Beckham hasn't made it to the majors.

2009 - Stephen Strasburg above average player. Zach Wheeler, Mike Minor, Mike Leake, and Jacob Turner average players as of now, have potential to be above average for their careers. Tony Sanchez, Drew Storen and Dustin Ackley below average and two players have yet to make it.

So my totals give me 20 above average players, 18 average players, 41 below average players and 21 have yet to make an appearance at the major league level.

Right now the Cubs have 4 'cost controlled' young players in Castro, Rizzo, Wood and Shark and people are saying that isn't near enough to start spending in FA and build around.

So I guess that means you would need to draft at 3-4 above average players before people think it would be wise to spend in FA.

Only problem is, on average, you would only get 2 above average players if you drafted in the top 10 for 10 straight seasons. That isn't enough.

Let's get crazy and say that the genius Theo and all this money put into scouting pays off and the Cubs draft twice as well as the historical facts show that you should draft and DO get all 4 above average players in that 10 year period. Great.

Not so fast.

What if you draft those players in years 1,3,6 and 10 of the ten year period??

Well by the time you have drafted your 4th player, the first player likely has already hit free agency and may not be in a hurry to stay with a team that just picked in the top 10 the last ten seasons and the player you drafted in year three could be approaching free agency so if you already arent back under that 4 above average player threshold to start spending in FA, you have a very small window unless you start hitting on even more of those top ten picks.

The odds of getting an above average player through the draft and minors is just so small that it is very, very difficult to be successful enough at it to maintain a steady supply of talent.

But that is just me not providing any facts again.

In comparison, what are the odds of how well FAs owe up to production expected of their salary.

Fucking A on Tapatalk
 

KBisBack!

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In comparison, what are the odds of how well FAs owe up to production expected of their salary.

Fucking A on Tapatalk

100% irrelevant to the discussion and topic at hand.

The discussion is about having to throw away seasons in order to draft high as opposed to winning games and picking in the middle to late first round.
 

BillikenBear

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The discussion is about having to throw away seasons in order to draft high as opposed to winning games and picking in the middle to late first round.

That was a good draft summary of the top 10, but it would have been better if you included players who were picked in the middle to late first round and how they fared in the majors for comparison.
 

KBisBack!

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That was a good draft summary of the top 10, but it would have been better if you included players who were picked in the middle to late first round and how they fared in the majors for comparison.

Earlier in the thread I provided about 30 players picked 11 and later.
 

BillikenBear

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Earlier in the thread I provided about 30 players picked 11 and later.

Ahh my bad, didn't see that. So 30 out of, let's say 20x10 possible selections is 30/200, or a a 15% hit rate. Whereas picking within the top 10, there's been 20 above average players out of 10x10 possible selections for a 20% hit rate. Picking in the top 10 produces a higher likelihood of drafting an above average player, but it IS still possible to build while selecting outside of the top 10.

Just giving everyone the facts! =)
 

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