The Bears Trade Up: Remydat's Revenge

[ditka4life]

Right and I said I've seen no one confirm the story other than Miller about Haslam being pissed. Have You?

I'm not saying Miller is wrong. I question why people were so willing to believe his sources but then question King.

I think the most likely scenario is still that Haslam wanted Trubisky but the football people weren't that gung hi


https://www.google.com/amp/amp.cleveland.com/v1/articles/20552855/nfl_draft_2017_jimmy_haslam_ne.amp

https://www.google.com/amp/profootb...sidering-mitchell-trubisky-first-overall/amp/

https://www.google.com/amp/www.spor...t-mitchell-trubisky/bfzyuapp9m321igcrpcpzevhz

All articles before the draft making it pretty clear that despite being a QB coach, Jackson wasn't really all that going ho about a QB. In fact you can find more articles about Jackson liking Mahomes than you can him actually liking Trubiksy. The Trubiksy thing seemed to come from the owner not the football people.

So I see no evidence for the idea that the GM or coaching staff were in love with Trubiksy. I see evidence Haslam was but that ultimately the football people won out over the meddling owner. This would also make sense with King's report as again it was Haslam that appeared to be gung go about Trubiksy while the Browns football people were content to let that narrative play out.

There is no way IMO if Haslam was promised as much as they claim that the football people don't beat the Bears trade.

There are confirmed reports that the Browns were in trade talks with the 49ers and the Titans to move up.
Why would they want to move up, if it wasn't for Trubisky?

Was it just a smokescreen to fool the owner into thinking they were doing their jobs in a half-hearted attempt to move up?
Or did Sashi Brown really believe he could grab Trubisky at 5 instead of at 2?

 

[Runruffshod75]

Sweet.

The Browns not wanting Trubisky means he'll turn out good.

Almost immediately that was the second thing I thought when when reading the OP's post, the second was wondering how King was omnipresent. This kind of reminds me of Schefter the day after his "insiders" told him that Thomas was the Bears target, let alone after they traded up. You don't trade up in the top of round 1 for a 3-4DE. you just don't do it. Then the following day it was blah, blah, blah with Schef trying to justify being out in left field.

I can't think of a more useless creature than a paid draft "insider" with no football background at all, they remind of skunks. What is their point of existence & why do they always stink? Hell, at least skunks eat up some of those pesky insects that buzz around your ear at bedtime & are bloodsucking leaches(similar to paid draft insiders). I mean for fuck sake with these paid draft "experts", they are a useless breed of critter.

 

[JeffChrist]

Who cares, it's done. If Trubisky ends up being bad then you can crucify Pace, but until then he did what he had to do to get his guy.

 

[dabears70]

Did he go out of his way or does he simply read MMQB saw this bit and figured that attaching my name to it he would get all the emo posters to respond?

I'm guessing you and Mongo's responses were exactly what he was looking for. You guys are like wind up dolls when it comes to this topic.

I don't know, why don't you roll over and ask him.

 

[iueyedoc]

Bears get Thomas. Trade up and get Watson. Shouldn't have cost anymore than they gave up to trade up and get Trubisky. Watson would have been the better acquisition in my book.

So draft Thomas with the #3 and trade a 3rd,4th and next years 3rd for the #11 overall to get in front of Hou for Watson. Excellent idea! They could have then traded the 6th and next years 6th to Tampa at 19 and got OJ Howard.

#firstroundpicksfornothing.

 

[dabears70]

My point is to lump me in with People who will love every Pace move good or bad was off.

My "fandom" doesn't jade my opinion. I have not changed my opinion of Pace. My opinion could change if I see continued improvement. But he has a lot more good work to do before I am there.

I am not "All in". I have said the Bears are going to suck this year.

Your opinions of me are wrong.

And your opinions of what happened on draft night are completely based on your hate for Pace and one guys "gut", not on the massive amount of data that disagrees.

I think he just got me and you mixed up cause i'm the Pace fanboy and have absolutely no problem with that at all and have made it very much known on here.


Ryan Pace for president

 

[didshereallysaythat]

There is no way IMO if Haslam was promised as much as they claim that the football people don't beat the Bears trade.

And they might have if we were not on the phone with the Browns at the same time.

 

[remydat]

And they might have if we were not on the phone with the Browns at the same time.

Not according to Peter King. Sorry. You are free to speculate as you see fit but forgive me if I side with King on this one since he pretty much is saying what I already told you in the Haslam thread.

 

[modo]

I dedicate this thread to Remydat, who has been fighting a long and arduous battle over the last week defending his position against most of CCS

So it looks like Peter King has finally shown his hand as it pertains to what really happened on draft day. As the only reporter who was granted access to the SF 49ers war room, let alone any war room for that matter, King is really the only person other than the organizations themselves who would actually know what really transpired. Well, while most of us believe that it was Pace who pump faked his way through the draft, Peter King puts a much different spin on it today:

- • "Applause to the Browns, for closing ranks in the first round and keeping alive the perception that they might trade from 12 to two to pick up North Carolina quarterback Mitchell Trubisky. That, in part, forced the Bears, who wanted Trubisky badly, to deal from three to two and throw in a third draft choice to assure they’d get their man. The Browns at times have been a leaky sieve during drafts. Not this time" -- Peter King

This is a very puzzling statement to make, as it implies that Cleveland was not interested in drafting Trubisky. But as I stated earlier, King's word would be the one to trust over any other. He does go on and try to soften the blow for our beloved Bears:

- • "I repeat: As I pointed out in my column inside the 49ers draft room last Monday, most often when a team gets on the clock during the draft, the other 31 teams don’t know which player that team is going to choose. So it’s easy to kill the Bears for trading three picks to move one spot. Easy, and short-sighted." -- Peter King

it doesn't make sense....if Cleveland wanted Trubisky, which we know they did, then why would they want to give the perception that they were moving to 2.....that would force other teams to go get Trubisky and Cleveland would all but guaranteed of losing out on him...

this makes no sense.

 

[iueyedoc]

NFL wonk that supports my argument= reliable source.
NFL wonk that supports your argument=speculation and hearsay.

Ahhhhh good ol' CCS.

 

[didshereallysaythat]

Not according to Peter King. Sorry. You are free to speculate as you see fit but forgive me if I side with King on this one since he pretty much is saying what I already told you in the Haslam thread.

He is just giving his gut opinion which to me is not any more of a real indication of fact than what Miller's sources told him. How you chose to interpret Miller's report is up to you.

 

[remydat]

NFL wonk that supports my argument= reliable source.
NFL wonk that supports your argument=speculation and hearsay.

Ahhhhh good ol' CCS.

Again you guys seem awfully confused. We are all speculating. I'm just speculating using Peter King. You guys are speculating using JM. I just find King more credible because he had a level of accees to the draft that other reporters did not. Any rational human being would be able to accept that even if they disagree. Most of you simply aren't acting rationally.

 

[The Hawk]

So draft Thomas with the #3 and trade a 3rd,4th and next years 3rd for the #11 overall to get in front of Hou for Watson. Excellent idea! They could have then traded the 6th and next years 6th to Tampa at 19 and got OJ Howard.

#firstroundpicksfornothing.

No, you'd be trading two high seconds and two 3rds and maybe a 4th to get Solomon and Watson. Something like that. Or maybe next years first and this years' 2nd and 3rd. Either way, they had options available to move back into the first round and get Watson.

Clearly Pace wanted Trubisky and that is okay with me and hope it all works out. But this is the Bears that we are talking about and I just have not a bit of confidence that they did the right thing in any of this. Call me basically disgusted by their stupidity for a long time.

 

[The Hawk]

Almost immediately that was the second thing I thought when when reading the OP's post, the second was wondering how King was omnipresent. This kind of reminds me of Schefter the day after his "insiders" told him that Thomas was the Bears target, let alone after they traded up. You don't trade up in the top of round 1 for a 3-4DE. you just don't do it. Then the following day it was blah, blah, blah with Schef trying to justify being out in left field.

I can't think of a more useless creature than a paid draft "insider" with no football background at all, they remind of skunks. What is their point of existence & why do they always stink? Hell, at least skunks eat up some of those pesky insects that buzz around your ear at bedtime & are bloodsucking leaches(similar to paid draft insiders). I mean for fuck sake with these paid draft "experts", they are a useless breed of critter.

Well, the pick sure fooled the guys reporting on the draft didn't it. I do not remember what draft show I was watching but the guy on the show announced that Solomon was the Bear's pick right before Goodell announced Trubisky. It looked like Trubisky himself was surprised.

 

[remydat]

He is just giving his gut opinion which to me is not any more of a real indication of fact than what Miller's sources told him. How you chose to interpret Miller's report is up to you.

He's giving it based on having been in the room with one of the teams in the draft. So he has more information at his disposal.

That doesn't mean he is right but to try and equate that with Miller's unnamed sources is silly. I know the sources King used to form his opinion. Their names are Lynch, Maranthe and Shanahan.

From a journalistic perspective that is more persuasive evidence than Miller's unnamed sources.

You are free to believe Miller and discount King because again nothing here is guaranteed. But you and your side's continued inability to grasp why from a journalistic standpoint King's gut carries more weight is what causes your rational opinion to veer off into irrationality.

 

[Viciousjay]

For what we had to give to move up was a steal if MT turns out to be a probowler. Look at the what washington gave up for RGIII.

 

[didshereallysaythat]

Again you guys seem awfully confused. We are all speculating. I'm just speculating using Peter King. You guys are speculating using JM. I just find King more credible because he had a level of accees to the draft that other reporters did not. Any rational human being would be able to accept that even if they disagree. Most of you simply aren't acting rationally.

King being in the 49ers draft room holds little to no weight for me. I don't think for one second that Lynch is going to let a reporter (no matter how good of friends they are) know his exact draft intentions. Secondly, in this very unique situation, I don't think King would ever say anything that might be a dig to the 49ers. Saying that the 49ers could have gotten more from the Bears would be a dig. If he says that, he just lost any chance of being in the draft room again next year. Third, even if his gut truly was that the Bears didn't need to make the trade, at the end of the day, it's his gut reaction. Gut reactions are based on emotion and are wrong half the time.

So no, I don't think what King has to say holds any more weight than Miller's report. And you are free to interpret Miller's report anyway you want.

Also, I don't care that King's sources have a name to them and Miller's don't because I trust that Miller has reliable sources.

 

[ditka4life]

He's giving it based on having been in the room with one of the teams in the draft. So he has more information at his disposal.

That doesn't mean he is right but to try and equate that with Miller's unnamed sources is silly. I know the sources King used to form his opinion. Their names are Lynch, Maranthe and Shanahan.

From a journalistic perspective that is more persuasive evidence than Miller's unnamed sources.

You are free to believe Miller and discount King because again nothing here is guaranteed. But you and your side's continued inability to grasp why from a journalistic standpoint King's gut carries more weight is what causes your rational opinion to veer off into irrationality.

You are an idiot for thinking that Pace intended to stay at 3.
He was always moving up to 2 and he got a bargain for moving up with only 2 3rd rounders.
The Browns never fooled Pace, he was always going to move up to 2, he was never going to stay at 3.
Its not that difficult to understand.
The Eagles and Redskins paid far more to move up to 2.
You are just using Peter King's statements as an excuse to trash Pace to say that the Browns fooled him into paying more than he had to.
It is just sour grapes from the Browns who wanted Trubisky at 5, but didn't want to pay the ransom that the 49ers wanted.

Pace was never fooled, he knew the fair-market price to move up to 2, and he paid the 2 3rd rounders (which is nothing, but you seem to believe that it is a bounty, while the Chiefs and Texans gave up 2 1st rounders to move up).

So you are clinging to Peter King's articles trashing Pace just so you can feel happier. When it was a fair-market deal that Pace and Lynch agreed would be fair compensation. Do you think John Lynch would have accepted LESS than 2 3rd rounders from Pace? Do you think Lynch would have accepted only one 3rd rounder to move up - that would make Lynch look like an idiot for accepting so little?

Again, There are confirmed reports that the Browns were in trade talks with the Titans to move up to 5.
There is no doubt about it, Pace fooled the Browns who wanted Trubisky at 5.
If the Browns and Haslam wanted Trubisky, they could have paid out the 3 first rounders to move up to 2.

What does Peter King say was the offer to John Lynch when they wouldn't even match the Bears 2 3rd rounders - seems rather silly of the Browns to not match such a small amount, don't you think?

 

[iueyedoc]

Bears get Thomas. Trade up and get Watson. Shouldn't have cost anymore than they gave up to trade up and get Trubisky. Watson would have been the better acquisition in my book.

No, you'd be trading two high seconds and two 3rds and maybe a 4th to get Solomon and Watson. Something like that. Or maybe next years first and this years' 2nd and 3rd. Either way, they had options available to move back into the first round and get Watson.

So should he have been able to get Thomas/Watson for the same as he gave up for Trubisky or would he have had to give up multiple additional high 2's or an additional 1 and 2?

You seem to be arguing with yourself better than I am able to.

 

[Warrior Spirit]

You are an idiot for thinking that Pace intended to stay at 3.
He was always moving up to 2 and he got a bargain for moving up with only 2 3rd rounders.
The Browns never fooled Pace, he was always going to move up to 2, he was never going to stay at 3.
Its not that difficult to understand.
The Eagles and Redskins paid far more to move up to 2.
You are just using Peter King's statements as an excuse to trash Pace to say that the Browns fooled him into paying more than he had to.
It is just sour grapes from the Browns who wanted Trubisky at 5, but didn't want to pay the ransom that the 49ers wanted.

Pace was never fooled, he knew the fair-market price to move up to 2, and he paid the 2 3rd rounders (which is nothing, but you seem to believe that it is a bounty, while the Chiefs and Texans gave up 2 1st rounders to move up).

So you are clinging to Peter King's articles trashing Pace just so you can feel happier. When it was a fair-market deal that Pace and Lynch agreed would be fair compensation. Do you think John Lynch would have accepted LESS than 2 3rd rounders from Pace? Do you think Lynch would have accepted only one 3rd rounder to move up - that would make Lynch look like an idiot for accepting so little?

Again, There are confirmed reports that the Browns were in trade talks with the Titans to move up to 5.
There is no doubt about it, Pace fooled the Browns who wanted Trubisky at 5.
If the Browns and Haslam wanted Trubisky, they could have paid out the 3 first rounders to move up to 2.

What does Peter King say was the offer to John Lynch when they wouldn't even match the Bears 2 3rd rounders - seems rather silly of the Browns to not match such a small amount, don't you think?

Appears you are the idiot and a blithering one at that. You don't know why the Skins or Eagles would have to give more in trade to move up from further back?