The Fair Tax (H.R. 25, S. 13)

[jaxhawksfan]

I talk about it all the time, but I think it is time for its own thread. Here is a decent article written recently:



"To succeed, the FairTax cannot simply have a supporter; it needs a champion. I commit to you that Rob Woodall is that."– Congressman John Linder, retired

Rep. Woodall Calls for Elimination of IRS​

The sponsor of the FairTax legislation and champion of the FairTax, Congressman Rob Woodall, wrote an outstanding piece on doing away with the IRS. We share it with you in its entirety.

With tax season just around the corner, I want to call your attention to a Taxpayer Advocate report that was recently delivered to Congress discussing the abject failure of the Internal Revenue Service (IRS) to adequately serve America’s taxpayers.

Take a look at some of their outrageous (though not altogether surprising) findings:

• By the end of last year, it took the IRS more than six weeks to answer nearly half of taxpayers’ letters and faxes dealing with adjustments to their returns.
  
• Between 2004 and last year, the agency did not even bother to answer 30% of taxpayer phone calls.
  
• Over the previous decade, 4,428 changes have been made to our 3.8 million-word tax code.
  

Americans already waste $431 billion per year complying with our tax code, yet the IRS is clearly incapable of doing its part by providing basic services to those taxpayers – such as picking up the phone. What does the IRS demand as a solution to its failures? More of your money. That’s right – the IRS wants an increase to the $11.8 billion they have already been given.

We don’t need to reform the IRS; we need to eliminate it.

That is why I am championing H.R. 25, the FairTax, which would dismantle the IRS and replace our current tax code with a 23% consumption tax at the final point of purchase for new goods and services. Not only would the FairTax do away with the headache of income tax compliance, it would also replace all other federal taxes. Congress wouldn’t need to continue debating whether or not Americans should get another two-month “holiday” from the payroll tax – the FairTax would permanently eliminate it. We wouldn’t have to keep fighting over which industries should continue to be subsidized with federal dollars in this budget-slashing era; the FairTax would eliminate them all and level the playing field for everyone.

Our current tax code is not doing America any favors. In fact, it is literally destroying economic growth and productivity. The sheer complexity of the law – taxpayers had to deal with 579 changes in 2010 alone – forces businesses to redirect precious resources from investment in new capital to tax code compliance. Instead of spending the $431 billion each year hiring new employees or investing in innovation, businesses are forced to spend the money complying with our punitive tax laws. Couple that with the fact that we have the highest book effective tax rate in the world, and it becomes clear that we need to scrap our tax code and start over.

It is also clear that more freedom – not more bureaucracy and more government spending – is the answer. At its core, the FairTax is not a tax bill at all; it’s a freedom bill. We need to free ourselves from the $11.8 billion annual price tag on the IRS; we need to free the most productive workforce in the world from the suffocating red tape of our tax code; and we must free our businesses from the barrier that is preventing America from being the best place in the world to invest. America needs to pass the FairTax and free ourselves from our destructive tax code – and the IRS – once and for all.

- Congressman Rob Woodall, GA-07





http://www.fairtax.org

 

[BigPete]

This was the ONE area of Bachmann's campaign that I appreciated. Insider opinion and a desire to radically improve the existing process, yet not revolutionize it.

Not that I would be opposed to a different method if it was fair and made sense.

 

[jaxhawksfan]

The thing I like most about The Fair Tax is its ability to take power away from politicians. They will no longer be able to pick winners and losers in the marketplace, give deals to buddies or generally set themselves up to work for corporations that they have given preferential tax treatment to while in office.



This plan was devised by a group of economists, not politicians. Wanna talk about true scientists with no dog in the race? This is not conservative/liberal or Demican/Republicrat, it is fiscal sense and sensibility.

 

[roshinaya]

Having just a bunch of economists coming up with something isn't either a good idea. Academic economists are all too occupied thinking in ideal models that rarely work in real life. And it's not true that academia has no dog in the race, they are as easily influenced by politics and money as anyone else. Especially when it comes to economics.

 

[Tater]

I love the idea of it. As you said, it would eliminate tons of corruption which might lead to attracting candidates NOT in it for the money, but to serve the country.

 

[supraman]

I talk about it all the time, but I think it is time for its own thread. Here is a decent article written recently:



"To succeed, the FairTax cannot simply have a supporter; it needs a champion. I commit to you that Rob Woodall is that."– Congressman John Linder, retired

Rep. Woodall Calls for Elimination of IRS​

The sponsor of the FairTax legislation and champion of the FairTax, Congressman Rob Woodall, wrote an outstanding piece on doing away with the IRS. We share it with you in its entirety.

With tax season just around the corner, I want to call your attention to a Taxpayer Advocate report that was recently delivered to Congress discussing the abject failure of the Internal Revenue Service (IRS) to adequately serve America’s taxpayers.

Take a look at some of their outrageous (though not altogether surprising) findings:

• By the end of last year, it took the IRS more than six weeks to answer nearly half of taxpayers’ letters and faxes dealing with adjustments to their returns.
  
• Between 2004 and last year, the agency did not even bother to answer 30% of taxpayer phone calls.
  
• Over the previous decade, 4,428 changes have been made to our 3.8 million-word tax code.
  

Americans already waste $431 billion per year complying with our tax code, yet the IRS is clearly incapable of doing its part by providing basic services to those taxpayers – such as picking up the phone. What does the IRS demand as a solution to its failures? More of your money. That’s right – the IRS wants an increase to the $11.8 billion they have already been given.

We don’t need to reform the IRS; we need to eliminate it.

That is why I am championing H.R. 25, the FairTax, which would dismantle the IRS and replace our current tax code with a 23% consumption tax at the final point of purchase for new goods and services. Not only would the FairTax do away with the headache of income tax compliance, it would also replace all other federal taxes. Congress wouldn’t need to continue debating whether or not Americans should get another two-month “holiday” from the payroll tax – the FairTax would permanently eliminate it. We wouldn’t have to keep fighting over which industries should continue to be subsidized with federal dollars in this budget-slashing era; the FairTax would eliminate them all and level the playing field for everyone.

Our current tax code is not doing America any favors. In fact, it is literally destroying economic growth and productivity. The sheer complexity of the law – taxpayers had to deal with 579 changes in 2010 alone – forces businesses to redirect precious resources from investment in new capital to tax code compliance. Instead of spending the $431 billion each year hiring new employees or investing in innovation, businesses are forced to spend the money complying with our punitive tax laws. Couple that with the fact that we have the highest book effective tax rate in the world, and it becomes clear that we need to scrap our tax code and start over.

It is also clear that more freedom – not more bureaucracy and more government spending – is the answer. At its core, the FairTax is not a tax bill at all; it’s a freedom bill. We need to free ourselves from the $11.8 billion annual price tag on the IRS; we need to free the most productive workforce in the world from the suffocating red tape of our tax code; and we must free our businesses from the barrier that is preventing America from being the best place in the world to invest. America needs to pass the FairTax and free ourselves from our destructive tax code – and the IRS – once and for all.

- Congressman Rob Woodall, GA-07





http://www.fairtax.org

I love it. You taxed for what you buy, not what you earn. Being taxed for what you earn is like being punished for having a job, just doesnt make a lot of sense.

Having just a bunch of economists coming up with something isn't either a good idea. Academic economists are all too occupied thinking in ideal models that rarely work in real life. And it's not true that academia has no dog in the race, they are as easily influenced by politics and money as anyone else. Especially when it comes to economics.

Kinda like John Maynard Keyes?

 

[Spunky Porkstacker]

While it makes sense to do this. It is just another item on the list of things to do that our government will never do. The accountants and tax attorneys will put a stop to it through strong lobbying.

 

[jaxhawksfan]

While it makes sense to do this. It is just another item on the list of things to do that our government will never do. The accountants and tax attorneys will put a stop to it through strong lobbying.

There are many who would never vote for it. However, there is a growing list of supporters in congress. If it ever comes to a vote and those who supposedly support it don't vote yes, they are undoubtedly out on their ass next time voting comes around. For some, like myself, this is my PRIMARY voting issue. I don't care about things like abortion or *** marriage, etc.

 

[roshinaya]

Kinda like John Maynard Keyes?

And your favourite Austrian economists.

 

[supraman]

And your favourite Austrian economists.

yeah but precious metal backed currency worked.

 

[BigPete]

I love it. You taxed for what you buy, not what you earn. Being taxed for what you earn is like being punished for having a job, just doesnt make a lot of sense.

Anyone that thinks this is a 'free' country is out to lunch. You have to pay to participate.

 

[BigPete]

Something to consider http://www.factcheck.org/taxes/unspinning_the_fairtax.html

 

[jaxhawksfan]

Something to consider http://www.factcheck...he_fairtax.html

I got past the first few paragraphs before I stopped reading this bullshit. If someone wants to "consider" that article written by a supposedly unbiased source then it is apparent that they haven't read The Fair Tax Book and have no clue how it works. That is how easy it is to twist and bastardize the plan.



First of all, the sales tax is inclusive instead of exclusive because it REPLACES the taxes already embedded in the cost of the product along the lines of production and distribution. You are not going to pay $123 for a $100 dollar toaster. You are going to pay $100, the same price it costs right now. People like to play games with inclusive vs. exclusive because it is easy for them to twist the shit however they want. The FACT is that the tax replaces all the embedded taxes already included in the shelf price of a particular item, it isn't added on top of that price.



I can see I'm going to have to take this one item at a time. Next?



By the way Pete, I should add that my disgust is not towards you, or the fact that you posted an article to consider. My disgust is aimed at the supposedly neutral fact checkers who don't do a very good job of collecting information or looking at the big picture before spewing their falsehoods.

 

[Tater]

I got past the first few paragraphs before I stopped reading this bullshit. If someone wants to "consider" that article written by a supposedly unbiased source then it is apparent that they haven't read The Fair Tax Book and have no clue how it works. That is how easy it is to twist and bastardize the plan.



First of all, the sales tax is inclusive instead of exclusive because it REPLACES the taxes already embedded in the cost of the product along the lines of production and distribution. You are not going to pay $123 for a $100 dollar toaster. You are going to pay $100, the same price it costs right now. People like to play games with inclusive vs. exclusive because it is easy for them to twist the shit however they want. The FACT is that the tax replaces all the embedded taxes already included in the shelf price of a particular item, it isn't added on top of that price.



I can see I'm going to have to take this one item at a time. Next?

That's the whole point of it right?

 

[jaxhawksfan]

That is not really the point of it Tater. It is just "how" it works, not the why. People like the authors of the artilce Pete listed want to argue percentages, regressive vs. progressive, inclusive vs. exclusive etc. They miss the whole point of the program. This article spends huge amounts of time on the "revenue neutrality" of The Fair Tax, but not once do they consider groups of people adding to the tax base that currently don't pay any (drug dealers, hookers, tourists etc.) They overlook people like Mitt Romney who says his tax rate right now is 15% because he only makes money on capital gains, and not income. They argue that the math by the government is right and that everyone else must be wrong. If they can't even include all the people who will pay tax at the register, then their math is HUGELY flawed to begin with and can't even be objectively compared.

 

[Tater]

That is not really the point of it Tater. It is just "how" it works, not the why. People like the authors of the artilce Pete listed want to argue percentages, regressive vs. progressive, inclusive vs. exclusive etc. They miss the whole point of the program. This article spends huge amounts of time on the "revenue neutrality" of The Fair Tax, but not once do they consider groups of people adding to the tax base that currently don't pay any (drug dealers, hookers, tourists etc.) They overlook people like Mitt Romney who says his tax rate right now is 15% because he only makes money on capital gains, and not income. They argue that the math by the government is right and that everyone else must be wrong. If they can't even include all the people who will pay tax at the register, then their math is HUGELY flawed to begin with and can't even be objectively compared.

That's what I was saying, just disputing the "factcheck" link like you.

 

[jaxhawksfan]

Ah, ok. Didn't catch that meaning. I have to remember to stay calm during any discussions of this plan. Getting all butt-hurt doesn't do anyone any good as far as explaining aspects of the plan and refuting what politicians and pundits want to claim about it.

 

[Tater]

Ah, ok. Didn't catch that meaning. I have to remember to stay calm during any discussions of this plan. Getting all butt-hurt doesn't do anyone any good as far as explaining aspects of the plan and refuting what politicians and pundits want to claim about it.

They have a lot to loose if a fair tax ever goes through and try they'll to make it seem as bad as possible.

 

[jaxhawksfan]

I just don't like the way they go about arguing the minutae with labels. Progressive vs. Regressive, exclusive vs. inclusive, revenue neutral or not....etc. Does it really make a difference if the rate is 23 or 30? Does it really make a difference if the tax isn't progressive? The point is: you will bring home your entire paycheck. You will pay taxes on whatever you buy at the retail level. (Rich people generally tend to buy more stuff, at a higer price) You will get a check from the govt. each month to pay for the taxes on your neccessities based upon the size of your family and the poverty level. Embedded taxes will be removed from the cost to produce and sell items at the retail level. Companies will no longer have to spend millions if not billions on tax compliance and they can put that money to good use by expansion and/or hiring more people. America will no longer have the second highest corporate tax rate (Japan is first technically but not practically), and that will make other countries want to move their businesses here because of the tax break. ( It has been said that American workers are the best, and most ingenious. Let's have the opportunity to show the rest of the world.) So let's see......bring my whole check home, pay a tax on what I buy from the store, save whatever money I decide to save without penalty, have better opportunity for jobs, get a check from the government to pay the taxes on my food/clothing etc.......yeah that plan sucks.



Is it perfect? Probably not. Probably will have some kinks to work out. What we have right now is just ridiculous, and the IRS doesn't even understand it. Tweaking the current laws aren't doing a damn thing to bring America back to greatness.

 

[roshinaya]

yeah but precious metal backed currency worked.

Did it really? There were still cycles of booms and busts, some even more severe than we have now since introducing fiat currency. And having a rigid monetary policy would make it even harder to stabilize an economy.