"The Modern Era"?

[2323]

The high level hitters are going to do damage when they connect. The question becomes how easy is/was it to make good contact. Babe Ruth used bats that were 40 + ounces. Did this happen because it was a time when giants walked the earth? To a small degree, perhaps but not in a larger sense. The biggest reason Babe Ruth was able to use a 40 + ounce bat was because the fastest pitchers during his era only topped out at 93/94 mph.

Then there's the fact that hitters in Babe Ruth's day faced the same pitcher 4 times a game. To go along with that, managers managed by the seats of their pants. There wasn't specialization based on statistical analysis...at least not to any significant degree in comparison.

And because there was no integration, the talent pool was far weaker. You had great pitchers facing really sub par hitters and great hitters facing really poor pitchers by comparison. The talent disparity was far greater. Along these lines, it's also worth pointing out that baseball, at least in the early century, wasn't as prevalent in high schools further diminishing the talent pool even among white people.

The diminished talent pool meant less talented players on defense. But if you've ever seen the ball gloves they used in the 30s, 40s, and 50s, you know how much the mits have improved.

It was much easier for the higher end players for several reasons.

 

[brett05]

I'm ok with defining a new era. But let's look at some things in general.

We have no good clues how fast pitchers could throw til the radar gun was used in the 1960's.

Guys like Walter Johnson, Bob Feller, Sam McDowell among others have been called the fastest pitchers to ever play the game. Unfortunately no radar gun to help the story. But let's say the very best topped out at 93/94 (Greg Maddux, was he even that high?), they were allowed to use pitches like the spitter.

No integration is true, no airplanes either though. Double headers, no night games, no kids playing other sports. Expansion of baseball has not kept up with integration or population increase. Some could make a solid case that baseball is much weaker today than yesterday.

 

[2323]

. Although a lack of precision instruments prevented accurate measurement of his fastball, in 1917, a Bridgeport, Connecticut munitions laboratory recorded Johnson's fastball at 134 feet per second, which is equal to 91.36 miles per hour (147.03 km/h), a velocity which was virtually unique in Johnson's day, with the possible exception of Smoky Joe Wood. Johnson, moreover, pitched with a sidearm motion, whereas power pitchers are normally known for pitching with a straight-overhand delivery.

I took this from Wikipedia because it's easy but I've seen similar in other places.

It's not true to say "we" have no clue. But it was subjected to some scientific measurement. I've read 93 mph I think is where the fastballs topped out. But Wood and Johnson were the best of the best in this regard. When you consider how many innings guys threw, it makes sense that they wouldn't throw as hard. It also makes sense from the standpoint that guys were using 40 ounce bats.

 

[brett05]

I took this from Wikipedia because it's easy but I've seen similar in other places.

It's not true to say "we" have no clue. But it was subjected to some scientific measurement. I've read 93 mph I think is where the fastballs topped out. But Wood and Johnson were the best of the best in this regard. When you consider how many innings guys threw, it makes sense that they wouldn't throw as hard. It also makes sense from the standpoint that guys were using 40 ounce bats.

One guy used a bat that heavy that produced and he's the GOAT.

I've seen reports where the fastball of WJ was compared at 97 against a motorcycle.

Also read a report done where the test was 210 feet per second or 140 MPH.

All I can take from it is we don't know and don't have any "good" clues.

 

[brett05]

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/mlb/news/20130308/power-week-baseball-pitchers/#all

 

[brett05]

http://wezen-ball.com/2009-articles/clocking-pitch-speed-in-1917.html

Thought the links might add something to it

 

[FirstTimer]

The high level hitters are going to do damage when they connect. The question becomes how easy is/was it to make good contact. Babe Ruth used bats that were 40 + ounces. Did this happen because it was a time when giants walked the earth? To a small degree, perhaps but not in a larger sense. The biggest reason Babe Ruth was able to use a 40 + ounce bat was because the fastest pitchers during his era only topped out at 93/94 mph.

Then there's the fact that hitters in Babe Ruth's day faced the same pitcher 4 times a game. To go along with that, managers managed by the seats of their pants. There wasn't specialization based on statistical analysis...at least not to any significant degree in comparison.

And because there was no integration, the talent pool was far weaker. You had great pitchers facing really sub par hitters and great hitters facing really poor pitchers by comparison. The talent disparity was far greater. Along these lines, it's also worth pointing out that baseball, at least in the early century, wasn't as prevalent in high schools further diminishing the talent pool even among white people.

The diminished talent pool meant less talented players on defense. But if you've ever seen the ball gloves they used in the 30s, 40s, and 50s, you know how much the mits have improved.

It was much easier for the higher end players for several reasons.

Then why were even the "high end" players not hitting .400 etc during the dead ball era? You keep saying how easy it was for everyone in the league. If it was easier for the high end guys it was easy for everyone else too. Yet we still saw some all time lows in league BA's.

You're also confusing now the "Dead Ball Era" and lumping it into the 1919-1948 or so "Live Ball Era" which is an entirely different discussion. You need to pick an era, pick an argument and stick with it. You either have no idea about baseball history or are being intentionally obtuse.

 

[2323]

Then why were even the "high end" players not hitting .400 etc during the dead ball era? You keep saying how easy it was for everyone in the league. If it was easier for the high end guys it was easy for everyone else too. Yet we still saw some all time lows in league BA's.

You're also confusing now the "Dead Ball Era" and lumping it into the 1919-1948 or so "Live Ball Era" which is an entirely different discussion. You need to pick an era, pick an argument and stick with it. You either have no idea about baseball history or are being intentionally obtuse.

You have to make solid contact. And then the situation in the field from the standpoint of pre-integration and also mits that were of lesser quality are going to lead to a lot of cheap hits by today's standards...not to mention pitching specialization driven by pitching statistics resulting in not seeing the same pitcher 4 times a game almost every game.

The question you're asking is better applied at a more micro subset level, where the relevant range is considerably smaller than what were talking about ( ie 1900-2014).

 

[FirstTimer]

You have to make solid contact. And then the situation in the field from the standpoint of pre-integration and also mits that were of lesser quality are going to lead to a lot of cheap hits by today's standards...not to mention pitching specialization driven by pitching statistics resulting in not seeing the same pitcher 4 times a game almost every game.

The question you're asking is better applied at a more micro subset level, where the relevant range is considerably smaller than what were talking about ( ie 1900-2014).

Again:

If it was easier for the high end guys it was easy for everyone else too. Yet we still saw some all time lows in league BA's.

You're also confusing now the "Dead Ball Era" and lumping it into the 1919-1948 or so "Live Ball Era" which is an entirely different discussion. You need to pick an era, pick an argument and stick with it. You either have no idea about baseball history or are being intentionally obtuse.

You're wrong and your idea sucks.

Stop.

You were proven a fool in the Bulls forum and now you're coming over here. Just so the site knows what forum to avoid next where will your traveling circus of wrong be headed to next? The White Sox or Bears Forum?

 

[2323]

One guy used a bat that heavy that produced and he's the GOAT.

I've seen reports where the fastball of WJ was compared at 97 against a motorcycle.

Also read a report done where the test was 210 feet per second or 140 MPH.

All I can take from it is we don't know and don't have any "good" clues.

Right. Because the goat is so easy to determine given all the advantages he had.

 

[FirstTimer]

Right. Because the goat is so easily to determine given all the advantages he had.

We get it. From what we can tell in all sports you despise anything that happened pre-1960ish or integration.

Great.

You can treat 1969 or whatever as the Modern Era of baseball if you want.

Knock yourself out.


Please. Literally do that.

 

[Captain Obvious]

It's like watching a group of junior high kids bully each other.

 

[FirstTimer]

It's like watching a group of junior high kids bully each other.

How so? This isn't you vs 2323

This is more like Lebron(me) bullying Rose(2323) in the ECF's a few years ago.

 

[brett05]

Right. Because the goat is so easy to determine given all the advantages he had.

?????

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