The Obvious

[kerrywoodwins20]

I wonder if anyone who watched Lamar Jackson look like a high school quarterback tonight because Harbaugh was out schemed realizes that Nagy was out schemed pretty much all year.

Not a knock on Lamar either. He won the MVP and played amazing all year. And tonight, Vrabel thoroughly out coached Harbaugh, and it led Lamar Jackson to look like complete and utter trash.

These things matter folks. You can't see your head coach consistently out schemed and still see yourself win games consistently in this league.

 

[Outlaw Josey Cutler]

Stop taking completely impersonal conversations personally. That would help you far removed from just this conversation.

I am not taking anything personally. My use of bold and capitals is so maybe you would actually engage my points instead of dodging them.

When you draft a project QB and then your entire framework to develop him proves to be faulty, you can’t then say the QB would have never developed properly if you put the right framework in place.

That’s common sense.

WTF are you talking about? Re-read my post. You addressed nothing of what Mitch is failing to do as a QB that is on him not anyone else. Yet another dodge of the counter-argument directly made to you.

Nagy was out schemed pretty much all year.

Outside of a couple drives here and there and maybe 4 - 5 whole games I largely agree that he was out-coached all year by opposing DCs. What does that have to do with Mitch's own failures that he should have known by now? Like reading pre-snap and hitting his damn targets? Nothing. More distraction away from the counterpoint that you refuse to acknowledge.

Not a knock on Lamar either. He won the MVP and played amazing all year.

Yes! You see it! Harbaugh can get out-coached and yet you can see that Lamar has done his thing all year and even this game too - outside of 5 bad plays or so by Lamar - he still played well in the game vs. Titans.

You see a coach can fail and a QB can independently do better or worse because QBs have their OWN responsibilities and playmaking skills.

There are many many times Nagy let Mitch down but there are also many many times Mitch let Nagy down. Some here say Nagy deserves more blame because he has more overall responsibility. I do not find much fault with that logic. If that were YOU, I would have been done pages ago with nothing really to add to that.

Your position is baffling: Mitch bears zero responsibility in your eyes and when pressed with the counterpoints of his failures to read a defense consistently (proving he has been taught how to) and lack of accuracy (something that he needs to develop through his own practice) you just reply with no new point:

just a tired variation of the point before any evidence of Mitch's own failures as if it was never even brought up by me or others.

Duck Dodgers in the 21st and a quarter century.

 

[Calabis]

Obvious: We dont have an elite QB to run this bs system(like Mahomes) and therefore need a different OC who wants to pound the ball and rely on defense...aka Titans, 49ers....but we unfortunately have a Special person OC that wants to throw the ball 40 times and has a run scheme/game that is a complete joke

 

[kerrywoodwins20]

I am not taking anything personally. My use of bold and capitals is so maybe you would actually engage my points instead of dodging them.



WTF are you talking about? Re-read my post. You addressed nothing of what Mitch is failing to do as a QB that is on him not anyone else. Yet another dodge of the counter-argument directly made to you.



Outside of a couple drives here and there and maybe 4 - 5 whole games I largely agree that he was out-coached all year by opposing DCs. What does that have to do with Mitch's own failures that he should have known by now? Like reading pre-snap and hitting his damn targets? Nothing. More distraction away from the counterpoint that you refuse to acknowledge.



Yes! You see it! Harbaugh can get out-coached and yet you can see that Lamar has done his thing all year and even this game too - outside of 5 bad plays or so by Lamar - he still played well in the game vs. Titans.

You see a coach can fail and a QB can independently do better or worse because QBs have their OWN responsibilities and playmaking skills.

There are many many times Nagy let Mitch down but there are also many many times Mitch let Nagy down. Some here say Nagy deserves more blame because he has more overall responsibility. I do not find much fault with that logic. If that were YOU, I would have been done pages ago with nothing really to add to that.

Your position is baffling: Mitch bears zero responsibility in your eyes and when pressed with the counterpoints of his failures to read a defense consistently (proving he has been taught how to) and lack of accuracy (something that he needs to develop through his own practice) you just reply with no new point:

just a tired variation of the point before any evidence of Mitch's own failures as if it was never even brought up by me or others.

Duck Dodgers in the 21st and a quarter century.

The first game that Harbaugh was genuinely out coached this year, they got blown out by the Titans at home. It just happened.

 

[kerrywoodwins20]

Obvious: We dont have an elite QB to run this bs system(like Mahomes) and therefore need a different OC who wants to pound the ball and rely on defense...aka Titans, 49ers....but we unfortunately have a Special person OC that wants to throw the ball 40 times and has a run scheme/game that is a complete joke

I gave up on Nagy when he had Mitch throw the ball 50+ times on a cold, windy day in Chicago with an injured shoulder.

That guy is not a smart man, and you need to be a smart man to win in today's NFL.

And no one can blame the situation either, because a stat was posted about midway through the season that showed the Bears pass the ball a higher percentage of the time than any team in the league with the lead is a possession either direction. That's something you do if you have Tom Brady or Patrick Mahomes.

 

[Outlaw Josey Cutler]

The first game that Harbaugh was genuinely out coached this year, they got blown out by the Titans at home. It just happened.

I missed the part where you proved Mitch's flaws were all on Nagy. Please re-post. I think there was a power surge or something that accidentally wiped out your contribution to the actual discussion. I don't blame you though and I thank you for your consideration.

 

[kerrywoodwins20]

I missed the part where you proved Mitch's flaws were all on Nagy. Please re-post. I think there was a power surge or something that accidentally wiped out your contribution to the actual discussion. I don't blame you though and I thank you for your consideration.

you saw what happens when Harbaugh is out coached.

same thing that happens when Nagy is out coached. It just happens significantly more often.

 

[Outlaw Josey Cutler]

you saw what happens when Harbaugh is out coached.

same thing that happens when Nagy is out coached. It just happens significantly more often.

Sigh. Literally NO ONE is disputing that.

Mitch also has blame here for not taking the next step in playing NFL QB

and my reasoning (yet again) is as follows:

Mitch has to make an initial read on an RPO - not just once in a while but every damn time. He already knows this. Everyone on Earth familiar with the most basic of QB concepts knows this.

He needs to read pre-snap and adjust his blockers' assignments. He KNOWS this already and does not consistently do it. He needs to be aware of the areas of the field his receivers WILL be going and not pre-determine a throw even when not being pressured. He reads poorly. He KNOWS he does.

His accuracy is shit compared to his QB peers and needs to get better. No coach can coach him better at accuracy. He needs to go out and practice till his arm falls off. If he can NEVER get better consistent accuracy, he will not make it.

He has literally said HIMSELF on multiple occasions that he needs to get better with things he already KNOWS.

 

[kerrywoodwins20]

Just the fact you think no coach can improve his accuracy tells me all I need to know.

Accuracy is often times about comfort with the scheme. Nagy does not play to people’s strengths and wants things done his way even if we don’t have the personnel for it. So it’s not surprising his accuracy has gotten worse with Nagy’s coaching.

But nothing else to be gained from this conversation if you truly believe that Trubisky’s accuracy issues couldn’t possibly be attributed to Nagy and his coaching. Like just beyond pointless.

 

[Outlaw Josey Cutler]

Just the fact you think no coach can improve his accuracy tells me all I need to know.

No it doesn't. If you have a counterpoint, I will consider and adapt from there. To me, this is a discussion not a posturing of competing positions that dig in against each other. I am starting to doubt your sincerity here.

Nagy does not play to people’s strengths and wants things done his way even if we don’t have the personnel for it.

I tend to agree with this but that doesn't mean Mitch is a perfect angel that is blameless in his regression. That is the point here where this point does not connect to your ultimate conclusion that Mitch is a pure victim of others around him.

Accuracy is often times about comfort with the scheme.

Ah I see, Mitch needs to be comforted by the scheme in order to be accurate and that is all on Nagy. And since I am "wrong" regarding accuracy, then you need not address the other factors I have mentioned multiple times with the bolded added to the new parts since you clarified your claim that Mitch is not responsible for his own accuracy:


Mitch has to make an initial read on an RPO - not just once in a while but every damn time. He already knows this. Everyone on Earth familiar with the most basic of QB concepts knows this.

He needs to read pre-snap and adjust his blockers' assignments. He KNOWS this already and does not consistently do it. He needs to be aware of the areas of the field his receivers WILL be going and not pre-determine a throw even when not being pressured. He reads poorly. He KNOWS he does.

His accuracy is shit compared to his QB peers and needs to get better. No coach can coach him better at accuracy (past the mechanics of throwing). He needs to go out and practice till his arm falls off. If he IS practicing and still can NEVER get better consistent accuracy, he will not make it.
Also if he IS practicing and is out of his own head space because he does not trust the scheme, then he has to focus better on the plays he can make and make them better more often. He needs to make his OWN comfort zone rather than be dependent on others to make him feel comfortable

He has literally said HIMSELF on multiple occasions that he needs to get better with things he already KNOWS.

 

[kerrywoodwins20]

Lamar’s accuracy last year was awful. Truly dreadful. This year, he won the MVP with the scheme revamped and designed around him.

 

[Outlaw Josey Cutler]

Lamar’s accuracy last year was awful. Truly dreadful. This year, he won the MVP with the scheme revamped and designed around him.

Yes, Nagy is not Roman. Mitch would do better in BAL than in CHI. Literally NO ONE is disputing that.

Mitch is responsible for his own part in:
- increasing accuracy
- making pre-snap reads all the time not just sometimes
- making good pre-snap reads consistently
- going through reads consistently and being more aware of where the opposing defense has open areas

He KNOWS this already and does not consistently do it. He needs to be aware of the areas of the field his receivers WILL be going and not pre-determine a throw even when not being pressured. He reads poorly. He KNOWS he does.

He needs to go out and practice till his arm falls off. If he IS practicing and still can NEVER get better consistent accuracy, he will not make it.

Also if he IS practicing and is out of his own head space because he does not trust the scheme, then he has to focus better on the plays he can make and make them better more often. He needs to make his OWN comfort zone rather than be dependent on others to make him feel comfortable

He has literally said HIMSELF on multiple occasions that he needs to get better with things he already KNOWS.