There's No 'plan B' for rebuilding Cubs

[nwfisch]

Plan B?
A Ricketts family profile for a recent episode of “60 Minutes Sports” covered a lot of familiar territory, from the rooftops to the facilities build-up in Arizona and the Dominican Republic to the Cubs Convention inquisition.
In what essentially became a refresher course for the national audience, investigative journalist Armen Keteyian got the most revealing moment during a sit-down with chairman Tom Ricketts.
Keteyian: “It’s a roll of the dice in a lot of ways. Is there a Plan B if this doesn’t work?”
Ricketts: “I’m not sure there is a Plan B. The fact is, when you go to the free-agent market, it is basically like saying: ‘We were unable to develop that player internally.’ But there’s no one big check. There’s no one big guy. There’s no magic button to hit in the free-agent market.”

http://www.csnchicago.com/cubs/there’s-no-‘plan-b’-rebuilding-cubs

 

[ILoveDick]

http://www.csnchicago.com/cubs/there’s-no-‘plan-b’-rebuilding-cubs

And how long does it take to rebuild the farm system? The Cubs have been talking about that shit forever. I remember hearing that line in 2001 under Andy McPhail. Remember when Corey Patterson, Bobby Hill, Hee Sop Choi, and Julio Zuleta were gong to revitalize the team? Remember brass going on and on about Corey Patterson being a "five tool" guy. Pfft. After 12 years in the majors he turned out to be a .252 career hitter.

 

[CSF77]

Ricketts are cheap. They buy a major market with the grand idea of running it like the A's.

The difference is the A's manage the team due to its market size. The Cubs are managing it to become profitable.

His whole signing F/A spill is crap. He has been signing F/A's. Just ones that were gambles signed at low value points in their career.

Team should be called the "Blue light Special"

 

[brett05]

Go Cubbies!!!

Is it Wednesday yet?

 

[Parade_Rain]

Ricketts are cheap. They buy a major market with the grand idea of running it like the A's.

The difference is the A's manage the team due to its market size. The Cubs are managing it to become profitable.

His whole signing F/A spill is crap. He has been signing F/A's. Just ones that were gambles signed at low value points in their career.

Team should be called the "Blue light Special"

Lol. The Chicago Cubs presented by K-Mart.

 

[CSF77]

Lol. The Chicago Cubs presented by K-Mart.

K-Mart Field has a ring to it. Least the Rickett's would get paid. Then they can call the team the Blue Lights.

 

[DewsSox79]

Ricketts are cheap. They buy a major market with the grand idea of running it like the A's.

The difference is the A's manage the team due to its market size. The Cubs are managing it to become profitable.

His whole signing F/A spill is crap. He has been signing F/A's. Just ones that were gambles signed at low value points in their career.

Team should be called the "Blue light Special"

kinda. but beane is far superior utilizing a low budget.


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[Parade_Rain]

kinda. but beane is far superior utilizing a low budget.


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Epstein hasn't had a long enough track record with a low budget to know that for certain.

 

[CSF77]

Epstein hasn't had a long enough track record with a low budget to know that for certain.

He had both with Boston. 150+ mil budget and the "time" to develop.

Dallas Green did the same thing. Put together 1984 then developed Grace, Maddux and Palmerio while the team stayed competitive. STL keeps competitive but has to keep a payroll around 120 mil.

The fact that the Cubs have a top 5 market and have a payroll below 100 mil is disgusting.

$89,007,857 ranked #23 out of 30 teams...... just goes to show that they charge the fan like a winner but put a Blue light special on the field.

Swear Cub fans can be stupid.

 

[CSF77]

1. LA Dodgers $235,295,219
2. NY Yankees $203,812,506
3. Philadelphia Phillies $180,052,723
4. Boston Red Sox $162,817,411
5. Detroit Tigers $162,228,527
6. LA Angels $155,692,000
7. San Francisco Giants $154,185,878
8. Texas Rangers $136,036,172
9. Washington Nationals $134,704,437
10. Toronto Blue Jays $132,628,700
11. Arizona Diamondbacks $112,688,666
12. Cincinnati Reds $112,390,772
13. St. Louis Cardinals $111,020,360
14. Atlanta Braves $110,897,341
15. Baltimore Orioles $107,406,623
16. Milwaukee Brewers $103,844,806
17. Colorado Rockies $95,832,071
18. Seattle Mariners $92,081,943
19. Kansas City Royals $92,034,345
20. Chicago White Sox $91,159,254
21. San Diego Padres $90,094,196
22. NY Mets $89,051,758
23. Chicago Cubs $89,007,857
24. Minnesota Twins $85,776,500
25. Oakland A's $83,401,400
26. Cleveland Indians $82,534,800
27. Pittsburgh Pirates $78,111,667
28. Tampa Bay Rays $77,062,891
29. Miami Marlins $47,565,400
30. Houston Astros $44,544,174

 

[Parade_Rain]

He had both with Boston. 150+ mil budget and the "time" to develop.

Dallas Green did the same thing. Put together 1984 then developed Grace, Maddux and Palmerio while the team stayed competitive. STL keeps competitive but has to keep a payroll around 120 mil.

The fact that the Cubs have a top 5 market and have a payroll below 100 mil is disgusting.

$89,007,857 ranked #23 out of 30 teams...... just goes to show that they charge the fan like a winner but put a Blue light special on the field.

Swear Cub fans can be stupid.

Agreed. I'm strictly comparing his relatively short stint in Chicago (using a very limited P/R) with Beane's long stint in Oakland. Beane had somewhat of a running start as Alderson had already been moving the team in the direction he continued upon his promotion to GM, AFAIK.

 

[chibears55]

Why are people syill blaming epstein for the payroll ? That Ricketts deciding where he wants payroll to be..

As far as the players go.. when you drop from 150 to 100 in a matter of 2 seasons, your obviously letting go of some talent and having to replace them with players who would normally be a 20-25 man on roster that would take a minimal salary and bringing in young kids from the system that playing at low cost.

For me , im not gonna judge epstein and hoyer much for what they've done tbeir first 2 offseasons with the psrent club because that was more of dismantling and finding whatever players willing to come and play for them at low cost and knowing their not gonna be competitive. . Basically what they got mostly were players looking to revive their careers with them. knowing theyd be flipped to another team if they succeed and could get a better deal the next yr...
Im gonna judge them more on these next 2 off seasons as I expect to see them adding pieces to the core via system, trades ,and FA and expect to see a team being competitive by 2016.


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[DewsSox79]

Epstein hasn't had a long enough track record with a low budget to know that for certain.

sure. i get that. but it is indeed unknown and in the moment since we dont know. beane is >>> epstein in that regard.


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[DewsSox79]

1. LA Dodgers$235,295,219
2. NY Yankees$203,812,506
3. Philadelphia Phillies$180,052,723
4. Boston Red Sox$162,817,411
5. Detroit Tigers$162,228,527
6. LA Angels$155,692,000
7. San Francisco Giants$154,185,878
8. Texas Rangers$136,036,172
9. Washington Nationals$134,704,437
10. Toronto Blue Jays$132,628,700
11. Arizona Diamondbacks$112,688,666
12. Cincinnati Reds$112,390,772
13. St. Louis Cardinals$111,020,360
14. Atlanta Braves$110,897,341
15. Baltimore Orioles$107,406,623
16. Milwaukee Brewers$103,844,806
17. Colorado Rockies$95,832,071
18. Seattle Mariners$92,081,943
19. Kansas City Royals$92,034,345
20. Chicago White Sox$91,159,254
21. San Diego Padres$90,094,196
22. NY Mets$89,051,758
23. Chicago Cubs$89,007,857
24. Minnesota Twins$85,776,500
25. Oakland A's$83,401,400
26. Cleveland Indians$82,534,800
27. Pittsburgh Pirates$78,111,667
28. Tampa Bay Rays$77,062,891
29. Miami Marlins$47,565,400
30. Houston Astros$44,544,174

dodgers, yankees is insane


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[beckdawg]

dodgers, yankees is insane


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Spending like they do would scare me if i were a fan of those teams because if the money starts to dry up I'm not sure how they sustain. I personally prefer teams who go after tier 2 FAs that get more like $10-15 mil and get 80-90% the production some of the tier 1 guys give you for $10-15 mil more. Those tier 2 guys usually get 3-4 year deals and if it goes sideways it's not crippling. If you take a team like the Yankees, they've won only a single title since the late 90's early 2000's dynasty. That's with them almost always getting one if not two of the top FAs. Just seems terribly inefficient. I feel like the approach they took in the 90's with more high profile trades worked out far better for them than their FA ventures. I'm not sure if opinions of teams giving up players changed or what but it seems clear that something changed.

 

[Parade_Rain]

sure. i get that. but it is indeed unknown and in the moment since we dont know. beane is >>> epstein in that regard.


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So you readily admit that you get that, yet the moment means Beane > Epstein? How many WS titles does Epstein have and how many does Beane have? Given the time necessary to get the talent in the farm that was already available to Beane when he took over from Alderson, that comparison won't be able to be made until the farm starts contributing. From about 2015 on, if the Cubs ownership doesn't allow a payroll increase, it will be a lot more valid comparison. So if 2015 goes as I suspect I will be Kore inclined to think Beane is better with a small market budget.

 

[CSF77]

Cubs should be competitive in their own div:

12. Cincinnati Reds$112,390,772
13. St. Louis Cardinals$111,020,360
16. Milwaukee Brewers$103,844,806
23. Chicago Cubs$89,007,857
27. Pittsburgh Pirates$78,111,667

The way I look at it they should be at 115-120 mil. Their market is bigger than the rest. Even if you take off Sori's deferred it comes up to under 110 mil.

Say they kept Sori this year. Payroll would be at 110 mil about. And you have a 30 HR bat to hit #4 to go along with Rizzo instead of Castro who will be lucky to hit 15 this year.

There is no excuse.

 

[chibears55]

Cubs should be competitive in their own div:

12. Cincinnati Reds$112,390,772
13. St. Louis Cardinals$111,020,360
16. Milwaukee Brewers$103,844,806
23. Chicago Cubs$89,007,857
27. Pittsburgh Pirates$78,111,667

The way I look at it they should be at 115-120 mil. Their market is bigger than the rest. Even if you take off Sori's deferred it comes up to under 110 mil.

Say they kept Sori this year. Payroll would be at 110 mil about. And you have a 30 HR bat to hit #4 to go along with Rizzo instead of Castro who will be lucky to hit 15 this year.

There is no excuse.

So they keep Soriano and assuming he hits 30 hr , that would help them win what maybe 10 more games this year ? Because im sure most of those HRs would be solo shots with this lineup.
Because the payroll at 110 instead of 90, it makes it better to accept?

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[CSF77]

So they keep Soriano and assuming he hits 30 hr , that would help them win what maybe 10 more games this year ? Because im sure most of those HRs would be solo shots with this lineup.
Because the payroll at 110 instead of 90, it makes it better to accept?

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Not really. If you look at the line up the #5 hitter and on are hitting below .220 on avg.

So with this in mind you run Bonifico Kalish Castro, Rizzo then Soriano as the 5 hitter to protect Rizzo. After that mix and match. Personally I would bat Castillo 6th.

The pitching for the most part has been pretty decent. The pen off and on. The main issue has been run support and that is directly a result of having that many hitters hitting below .250 in the line up together.

 

[chibears55]

Not really. If you look at the line up the #5 hitter and on are hitting below .220 on avg.

So with this in mind you run Bonifico Kalish Castro, Rizzo then Soriano as the 5 hitter to protect Rizzo. After that mix and match. Personally I would bat Castillo 6th.

The pitching for the most part has been pretty decent. The pen off and on. The main issue has been run support and that is directly a result of having that many hitters hitting below .250 in the line up together.

Again it would net them what.. 10-12 more wins maybe ?
So instead of 60-65 they win 70-75

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