There's No 'plan B' for rebuilding Cubs

[diavolos]

And no one is claiming that we shouldn't make the same splash once we get our young guys up here, but first things first, we have to get the young guys up here.

the basic premise of your post is the loser mentality that cubs fans and this organization will never shake. instead of trying to win, instead of as fans demanding the team wins at the cost of your fandom, everyone agrees...

"we'll spend money at some time in the future when the young guys come up".

or...

"we can't do anything about it, let's wait and see how the prospects work out, stop whining, we all know they suck".

well, let me ask you, what if the young guys--the prospects--suck? what then? what if through all the rosy predictions that only one guy is any good at all? let's just say, kris bryant. what do you do, do you start over, again? sure, they're going to get better. of that i have no doubt, because the last 2 1/2 years have been the worst that this organization has ever suffered through. they actually can't get worse.

 

[diavolos]

13-26, 3.79 team era, .235 team avg.

don't lose hope though, in the future, there will be years of "sustained success" because of the "plan".

 

[CSF77]

We hitting the #1 pick must be the plan right now.

 

[CSF77]

the basic premise of your post is the loser mentality that cubs fans and this organization will never shake. instead of trying to win, instead of as fans demanding the team wins at the cost of your fandom, everyone agrees...

"we'll spend money at some time in the future when the young guys come up".

or...

"we can't do anything about it, let's wait and see how the prospects work out, stop whining, we all know they suck".

well, let me ask you, what if the young guys--the prospects--suck? what then? what if through all the rosy predictions that only one guy is any good at all? let's just say, kris bryant. what do you do, do you start over, again? sure, they're going to get better. of that i have no doubt, because the last 2 1/2 years have been the worst that this organization has ever suffered through. they actually can't get worse.

Taking it in laymans terms:

Going into 2014:

2B was sub par.
RF is acceptable
CF was sub par.
3B was sub par.

Thinking of the future you go full time with Lake and Olt. Platoon 2B and RF. They get lucky with Bonifacio.

Right now Rick is trying to win...err 13 wins lol with no talent when he should be trying to develop Olt and Lake this year..

Team is clueless top to bottom.

I can accept a losing season where they are seasoning younger talent. But this year is pointless. The 2 guys that may be useful are part times. The team is not winning anyways so you develop.

 

[JP Hochbaum]

THE OWNER said this.

http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2014/02...a-team-right-now-that-can-go-to-the-playoffs/

I thought we were talking the THEO and JED plan? And what they said?

 

[JP Hochbaum]

the basic premise of your post is the loser mentality that cubs fans and this organization will never shake. instead of trying to win, instead of as fans demanding the team wins at the cost of your fandom, everyone agrees...

Gonna have to cut off your rant here. I don't have a loser mentality. I love them spending the way they did when Hendry was here and defended his moves because at the time we had Prior, Wood, Zambrano, Soto (as homegrown), and several other key free agents who helped us become dominant in 2008. Those years that we were actually good is what we are trying to return to, but we had no minor league system to possibly do that.

When you sign free agent you sign guys that are typically on the wrong side of 28-30, at a higher risk of injury and are over paying for in almost every case. we saw that when the team couldn't do it anymore after 2009. We gave ourselves a 2 year window and that was it. I want a 10 year window, that increases our chances of winning.

 

[Boobaby1]

Gonna have to cut off your rant here. I don't have a loser mentality. I love them spending the way they did when Hendry was here and defended his moves because at the time we had Prior, Wood, Zambrano, Soto (as homegrown), and several other key free agents who helped us become dominant in 2008. Those years that we were actually good is what we are trying to return to, but we had no minor league system to possibly do that.

When you sign free agent you sign guys that are typically on the wrong side of 28-30, at a higher risk of injury and are over paying for in almost every case. we saw that when the team couldn't do it anymore after 2009. We gave ourselves a 2 year window and that was it. I want a 10 year window, that increases our chances of winning.

The Cubs had talent in those years, it just that most never panned out with making it to the major leagues, some like Felix Pie flopped, and some like Archer, Chirinos, and Lee got traded off to Tampa.

That is why there is no guarantee that any of the big four will make it. I hope they all do, but I also have my reservations. I am a Cubs fan and have seen this many, many,..........many..........many.........many......times before.

 

[nwfisch]

The Cubs had talent in those years, it just that most never panned out with making it to the major leagues, some like Felix Pie flopped, and some like Archer, Chirinos, and Lee got traded off to Tampa.

That is why there is no guarantee that any of the big four will make it. I hope they all do, but I also have my reservations. I am a Cubs fan and have seen this many, many,..........many..........many.........many......times before.

But Theo picked these prospects. He invented the game, don't ya know?

 

[diavolos]

When you sign free agent you sign guys that are typically on the wrong side of 28-30, at a higher risk of injury and are over paying for in almost every case. we saw that when the team couldn't do it anymore after 2009. We gave ourselves a 2 year window and that was it. I want a 10 year window, that increases our chances of winning.

if you want a 10 year window you have to spend money as well as draft extremely well. that is not happening now and that is not the plan.

when your plan is to draft high for a period of time, you are throwing away multiple seasons (that are supposed to be 'precious') you are counting on 18-20 year olds developing into superstars.

you think spending money is over paying in terms of resources. some of us think that throwing away entire seasons is over paying in a much more important resource than cash.

at least with free agents if you over pay and they 'bust', you still have a major league player. when you throw away a season and miss on even one top 10 pick, it sets the franchise back by several more years. overpaying on a free agent does not set the franchise back several years.

 

[Boobaby1]

if you want a 10 year window you have to spend money as well as draft extremely well. that is not happening now and that is not the plan.

when your plan is to draft high for a period of time, you are throwing away multiple seasons (that are supposed to be 'precious') you are counting on 18-20 year olds developing into superstars.

you think spending money is over paying in terms of resources. some of us think that throwing away entire seasons is over paying in a much more important resource than cash.

at least with free agents if you over pay and they 'bust', you still have a major league player. when you throw away a season and miss on even one top 10 pick, it sets the franchise back by several more years. overpaying on a free agent does not set the franchise back several years.

The fandom consensus says that the Cubs did with Soriano. The only high profiled free agent that they ever landed set the Cubs of all people, back a couple of years.

Now that's funny.

 

[Boobaby1]

But Theo picked these prospects. He invented the game, don't ya know?

Well I hope McLeod lands a lot of talent before he is playing GM for another team.

 

[JP Hochbaum]

if you want a 10 year window you have to spend money as well as draft extremely well. that is not happening now and that is not the plan.

when your plan is to draft high for a period of time, you are throwing away multiple seasons (that are supposed to be 'precious') you are counting on 18-20 year olds developing into superstars.

you think spending money is over paying in terms of resources. some of us think that throwing away entire seasons is over paying in a much more important resource than cash.

at least with free agents if you over pay and they 'bust', you still have a major league player. when you throw away a season and miss on even one top 10 pick, it sets the franchise back by several more years. overpaying on a free agent does not set the franchise back several years.

Yeah I totally understand we need to spend money, but if we did that in the past three years would we be a .500 team?

 

[SilenceS]

Well I hope McLeod lands a lot of talent before he is playing GM for another team.

Yea, McLeod picked all these top prospects. The guy has a great track record. I truly trust that guy when it comes to drafting. Sure, he is going to miss like every other scout but he is fucking great at what he does. He will be a GM soon in this league.

 

[diavolos]

Yeah I totally understand we need to spend money, but if we did that in the past three years would we be a .500 team?

i get what you're saying. i really do. but throwing away multiple season simply to build a "contender" through the draft is just daft.

the cardinals won the world series winning only 83 games. the twins did it with only 87. when the white sox won the world series, no one gave them a shot; but you know what, they made the playoffs and from there went on. the red sox were in last place the year before they won it. the orioles were in last place, only to turn it around in a year and make the playoffs, giving them a shot at the title.

you know what, a .500 team with solid pitching and good defense has a shot, every game. put a few games together...you never know.

 

[justaChifan]

i get what you're saying. i really do. but throwing away multiple season simply to build a "contender" through the draft is just daft.

the cardinals won the world series winning only 83 games. the twins did it with only 87. when the white sox won the world series, no one gave them a shot; but you know what, they made the playoffs and from there went on. the red sox were in last place the year before they won it. the orioles were in last place, only to turn it around in a year and make the playoffs, giving them a shot at the title.

you know what, a .500 team with solid pitching and good defense has a shot, every game. put a few games together...you never know.

It's been sold. There is a right way and there's a wrong way to build a team.
Lightning in a bottle?
Not saying this team, since Theo took over, was any where near it to catch it.
But you can damn well be assured their going to try to re-construct the '27 Yankees, via the farm, before they decide if it's appropriate to spend on FA's

 

[justaChifan]

addendum: Ricketts knows if the Cubs finally win a WS, the little train analogy and all, he will lose 3/4 of his national fan base because the Cubs did.
He will play it out as long as he can.