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EDIT: Misread.
EDIT: Misread.
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Briggs is GOAT
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Yeah the guy went nuts. He was acting like Parkey just hit a 65 yarder or some shit.
baredown
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Guys, you're confusing outcome with decision here. If you go for 2 and make it, thats a good outcome. If you go for 2 and not make it, thats a bad outcome. Your decision on whether to go for 2 in the first place needs to factor in both possible outcomes, as well as the game clock. Yes, a 16 pt lead is obviously better than 15; but a 15 pt lead is a whole lot better than a 14 pt lead as the game clock winds down.
If that second 2 point conversion failed, and Minny punched in two TDs, tying the game with routine PATs, there'd be an angry mob with pitch forks & torches on this board...
Briggs is GOAT
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Yeah I was begging him to send Parkey out there to kick it. If you can't trust your kicker to make a field goal inside 50 yards in clean conditions then you have trust issues or your kicker fucking sucks.
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Odds are the you come away with more overall points if you go for 2 every time. I wouldn't doubt that Nagy decided all TDs were going to go for 2pt converts unless it was a game winner extra point.
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I think this is a good thing to take from the game.
Prior to last nights game the Vikings had the best 3rd down stop percentage in the league at around 25%. The Bears were 50% on 3rd down. Now remember the Vikes have played two powerhouse teams in the Rams and Saints and still had an outstanding 3rd down stop rate.
We had no three and outs in the game. None. We punted only twice. We probably would have three if Cohen hadn't fumbled but still, we moved the ball on one of the best defenses in the league. We rushed for 148 yards against the number four (now) rushing defense in the league. We only got in trouble when we tried to get cute but that misdirection also set up some plays that gave us several scoring opportunities.
This is probably the best defense we will play for the rest of the year and when we play them again, we hopefully will have sealed the division and won't have to worry about winning the game. Minnesota is a good team, a damned good team. Three of their losses have come to teams that lead their division, two of them to one loss teams. Don't let their record fool you, this is a team that is almost as good as last years, in some respects maybe a little better.
This was a signature win.
Prior to last nights game the Vikings had the best 3rd down stop percentage in the league at around 25%. The Bears were 50% on 3rd down. Now remember the Vikes have played two powerhouse teams in the Rams and Saints and still had an outstanding 3rd down stop rate.
We had no three and outs in the game. None. We punted only twice. We probably would have three if Cohen hadn't fumbled but still, we moved the ball on one of the best defenses in the league. We rushed for 148 yards against the number four (now) rushing defense in the league. We only got in trouble when we tried to get cute but that misdirection also set up some plays that gave us several scoring opportunities.
This is probably the best defense we will play for the rest of the year and when we play them again, we hopefully will have sealed the division and won't have to worry about winning the game. Minnesota is a good team, a damned good team. Three of their losses have come to teams that lead their division, two of them to one loss teams. Don't let their record fool you, this is a team that is almost as good as last years, in some respects maybe a little better.
This was a signature win.
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Great win. I thought Nagy coached a great game, especially the way he handled Parkey.
My only criticism is he went away from Jordan Howard who was running well. Nagy has a tendency to attack the perimeter too much and stall the offense when he has the lead.
I thought the Vikes were very physical in coverage. Hopefully we learn from that. I think there’s a lot Trubs can take away from playing that defense.
Our defense was simply dominant. Just need to close the door better in garbage time.
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My only criticism is he went away from Jordan Howard who was running well. Nagy has a tendency to attack the perimeter too much and stall the offense when he has the lead.
I thought the Vikes were very physical in coverage. Hopefully we learn from that. I think there’s a lot Trubs can take away from playing that defense.
Our defense was simply dominant. Just need to close the door better in garbage time.
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But you are playing with "what if" too much imo.
If he had kicked the PAT and MIN would have gotten the 2-pter and gotten the onside recover then we would have been up 24 - 21 and they would have 48 seconds to go 30 yards and kick the tying FG.
I suppose you could compare scenarios and argue a higher likelihood for your tying scenario over mine and that would be a fair point.
I prefer to see it as a head coach that sees each call with a likelihood for success and judge the coach on the outcome rather than my own limited knowledge outside of the internal X's and O's and their respective percentages.
This frees me from the fallacy of always being the idiot who is retroactively "smarter" than the coach. This frees me from the argument over running for it on 3rd and 1 vs. passing for it a la SEA on the goal line in the Super Bowl. I find the ones who scream "You had LYNCH! Why would you throw it!" to be illogical in that it is not known what percentage Lynch run vs. slant is and only with foresight is it known that Butler is looking for slant.
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Cannot thank for some reason but would if I could.
Greenie said this all the time back when he was on Mike and Mike in the morning.
Tomlin is the most aggressive coach going for 2 that I know of in the NFL. He really only kicks the XP when up by 16 + or down in the score and calculating catch up by 7's. (at least in the games I see the Steelers). It's amazing but it seems PIT stocks up on big red zone threats for TDs and 2 pointers particularly the TEs.
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jc456
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yep, Carolina went for the win. ended up with the loss.
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I refreshed and then I could thank you, so there ya go.
jc456
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Agree the Vikings pass D was violent with their hits. Made Miller lose his mind on one of em. i thought 54 should have gotten a unnecessary roughing call on it. But Miller, wow. Collinsworth thought he had got hit in the head. he did!!!
Sculpt
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PAT makes it 6-21, up by 15, which requires Viks to make two 2pt conversions to win. I agree with you, go for PAT because Viks are not going to go for 2pt conversion to win, they'll do 1-pt to tie.
Agreed.
The only thing you have is the big big big trend. Coaches (almost) never go for 2pt conversions to win instead of tying the game. Although it may have happened, I'm not aware of it ever happening. Isn't that good enough to evaluate which is the better decision?
Sculpt
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You might be right.
Nagy went for 2pts after the games' first TD in the 1st Qtr. Who does that?
Maybe after the Bears were successful making 2pt conversions last game, Nagy has decided the Bears are really good at it and are going to do it all or most of the time.
Les Grossman
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I agree with you, except that you said never. Teams do occaisionally do it. Carolina did just that yesterday... and lost.
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Coaches do in fact go for the win on a 2 point conversion...it happens a lot more often than never...
Sculpt
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Never say never on the CCS forum... So Rivera went for it this week and lost. I hadn't seen a coach go for 2pt conversion to win, but I assumed it's quite rare.
Did anyone notice the way Robinson didn't bother to go after the defender after he intercepted the pass intended for Robinson? I thought Robinson must have been hurt. It was a shame because the way the defender made so many horizontal adjustments for quite awhile, Robinson would have been able to at least tackle him from behind a few times.
Did anyone notice the way Robinson didn't bother to go after the defender after he intercepted the pass intended for Robinson? I thought Robinson must have been hurt. It was a shame because the way the defender made so many horizontal adjustments for quite awhile, Robinson would have been able to at least tackle him from behind a few times.
Les Grossman
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Here's Brad Bigg's take on the 2pt conversions:
"That’s how Nagy explained it after the game as well. He went for two in another non-traditional spot after Eddie Jackson’s interception return for a touchdown in the fourth quarter. The score put the Bears ahead 20-6; an extra point there would have meant a 15-point lead which would have forced the Vikings to score two touchdowns, get one two-point conversion and an extra point to tie the game. Nagy went for two – which isn’t what the chart recommends – as Trubisky hit tight end Adam Shaheen for the conversion and a 16-point lead. Again, Nagy was aggressive and it worked."
"That’s how Nagy explained it after the game as well. He went for two in another non-traditional spot after Eddie Jackson’s interception return for a touchdown in the fourth quarter. The score put the Bears ahead 20-6; an extra point there would have meant a 15-point lead which would have forced the Vikings to score two touchdowns, get one two-point conversion and an extra point to tie the game. Nagy went for two – which isn’t what the chart recommends – as Trubisky hit tight end Adam Shaheen for the conversion and a 16-point lead. Again, Nagy was aggressive and it worked."
