Thoughts and Observations Week 4

[Pegger]

You are forgetting that the Raiders are about to tell the city of Oakland to fuck off and move to Vegas. So realistically the Raiders are not really going to ramp up marketing their product until they move to Vegas as a lot of spurned Raiders fans are not going to be interested in buying shit from a franchise bailing on them.

Part of the reason why the Oakland A's ad campaign this year was "Rooted in Oakland" because of the fact that both the Warriors and Raiders were bailing on the city of Oakland.

I totally agree that the attendance issue in Oakland has gotten ugly. I forget who said it, but they compared the Raiders stadium situation in Oakland like a divorced couple forced to live together because they can't afford to live apart.

Anyway, bad attendance numbers have become fairly normal across the NFL. Look at Washington, Buffalo, Cincinnati, Jacksonville, etc.. Heck, the Chargers can't sell out a 25K stadium! Anyway, the actual game day revenues after expenses aren't that much. The real money makers are TV deals, sponsorship, merchandise sales and soon to be sports gambling.

For Oakland specifically they are one of those nationally recognized and followed franchises. That means they have so many fans outside of Oakland that they are okay in terms of merchandise sales.

My personal thought - The gameday experience will become more about the travelling fan than the locals. It just won't be an activity someone can plan to bring their family too for 8 games a year. The prices will continue to go up and out of state/country fans who are already paying $1K+ for that experience will be more inclined to pay an extra $300-500 per seat as it's typically part of a larger trip.

 

[remydat]

Like I said before, they just need to get to average for us to have a good shot at the Super Bowl. They took a step in the right direction against the Redskins and yesterday obviously was an outlier as A) Trubisky got hurt and B) they were SO DOMINANT on defense, they went into a shell offensively. Which is fine for 1 game with your backup QB.

Would I take this offense over 2015 and 2016 personnel? Probably yes because I trust Nagy more than Fox. Although Cutler vs Trubisky with Nagy is an interesting debate that I don't really care to have right now.

The point I am making is Nagy was not brought here to be carried to the Super Bowl by the defense. Nagy was brought here to bring the offense into the modern age and think he is failing at that right now. For all the bells and whistles, gimmicks and warm and fuzzies having him over Fox may instill in fans, the offensive results still fucking suck.

As a Bear fan, I am quite tired of always having to rely on the defense because our offense is so generally inept.

 

[JoJoBoxer]

Majority opinion everywhere but in Oakland's front office

fixed.

 

[didshereallysaythat]

The point I am making is Nagy was not brought here to be carried to the Super Bowl by the defense. Nagy was brought here to bring the offense into the modern age and think he is failing at that right now. For all the bells and whistles, gimmicks and warm and fuzzies having him over Fox may instill in fans, the offensive results still fucking suck.

As a Bear fan, I am quite tired of always having to rely on the defense because our offense is so generally inept.

I get what you are saying but the Bears have an obligation to win now with this defense. They can't risk losing games they otherwise would have won because Nagy decided to develop Mitch (who was not even his hand selected QB) into something he is not. If it doesn't work out, then and only then do you draft another QB and run your "modern day" NFL offense. And if that doesn't work with the new guy, the coach is fired.

 

[playthrough2001]

This. Reminds me of Brian Billick in Baltimore. His defenses did well but his offenses always disappointed.

To this point, that is an excellent comparison

 

[botfly10]

It just seems real strange considering Nagy's whole message to the team is "Be You" considering that he doesn't seem to be able to "be himself"

Yeah, I know we beat this into the ground at this point. Just saying that I think Nagy is constrained by the QB position right now and we haven't seen what his system is capable of because of it.

EDIT:

Just to add before moving on, to me its kind of a big deal that Nagy is stacking so many wins while dealing with major constraints. Yeah, its not going to be sustainable over the long term and sooner of later, something has to give with the QB position.

But the way Nagy is managing to scheme around big problems is impressive to me and I think overall, he is coaching his ass off. Lotta teams in the league in a very similar position and none of them are piling up wins like the bears have been.

 

[botfly10]

When you guys have discussions with remy, you have to understand they are not honest.

He doesn't actually have a viewpoint. He is a self-admitted contrarian. He will always argue in opposition to whatever you post. Sometimes he makes good points, but again, there is no cohesive perspective behind them.

And there are always good points to be made in opposition to any assertion, no matter how obvious. For example, there are interesting points in opposition to a round earth, despite how Special person the overall idea of a flat earth is.

This is what you take on when you try to have a genuine dialog with remy.

 

[DrGonzo]

I've only watched the first half but so far I thought Nagy did a good job calling offensive plays and fitting his plan to the personnel on the field.

Also seems like Daniel was a lot more comfortable and ready to go vertical than Trubisky. On the injury play it was another example where Trubisky could have converted if he stepped up into the pocket but he ran out instead and there was another defender coming from the side he went to.

Dix's INT stopped a drive where the Vikings were close to scoring after starting backed up to their own end zone and all the first downs were due to stupid Bears defensive penalties. They are still amazingly good but the offense isn't leaving the D a lot of room for error.

 

[WindyCity]

The point I am making is Nagy was not brought here to be carried to the Super Bowl by the defense. Nagy was brought here to bring the offense into the modern age and think he is failing at that right now. For all the bells and whistles, gimmicks and warm and fuzzies having him over Fox may instill in fans, the offensive results still fucking suck.

As a Bear fan, I am quite tired of always having to rely on the defense because our offense is so generally inept.

He was brought here to coach the entire team and win games, which he is doing.

The offense was always going to be a work in progress when he inherited a QB who had 20 starts in college and the pros and a ton to work on.

Trubisky has disappointed so the offense has disappointed.

 

[Pegger]

Yeah, I know we beat this into the ground at this point. Just saying that I think Nagy is constrained by the QB position right now and we haven't seen what his system is capable of because of it.

I agree with you, but couldn't that be said all positions and all schemes?

QB is the most important position on the field, but how would the defense be doing without DEs that can constantly win 1-on-1 matchups? How would an offense look without a deep ball WR or a RB that can threaten the edge?

 

[DC]

Anyone else annoyed that Nagy seemingly spends every second staring at his playcard? He doesn't seem to engage much and he stares at the card so long and hard, like its geometry. Pick a play you overrated dorkchop!

 

[remydat]

I get what you are saying but the Bears have an obligation to win now with this defense. They can't risk losing games they otherwise would have won because Nagy decided to develop Mitch (who was not even his hand selected QB) into something he is not. If it doesn't work out, then and only then do you draft another QB and run your "modern day" NFL offense. And if that doesn't work with the new guy, the coach is fired.

Yes he has an obligation to win now. I am saying that doesn't absolve him from the fact his offense is not up to standard.

 

[remydat]

He was brought here to coach the entire team and win games, which he is doing.

The offense was always going to be a work in progress when he inherited a QB who had 20 starts in college and the pros and a ton to work on.

Trubisky has disappointed so the offense has disappointed.

Lol, he is an offensive coach. To pretend that one of the main reasons for hiring him was not to develop the offense and Trubisky is a bit odd.

Further, the offense is not just a disappointment because of Trubisky. It is a disappointment because of problems with how he uses personnel, his play calling and frankly his inability to generate a consistent run game. Not to mention, his at times making things more difficult for Trubisky than it has to be.

Given that the D remains dominant with Pagano and with players 95% of whom Nagy had zero input in drafting, I am not sure he deserves credit for stacking wins. You could probably have Mel Tucker as DC and this D is going to play well. And quite frankly, we would probably be 3-1 right now if John Fox were the coach if he had this D. Perhaps we would have even beat Green Bay because John Fox would not have abandoned the run.

Now he gets credit for last year as at some point he did hit his stride with the offense but we are winning despite Nagy right now IMO not because of him. He has sucked this year and needs to get his shit together.

 

[WindyCity]

Lol, he is an offensive coach. To pretend that one of the main reasons for hiring him was not to develop the offense and Trubisky is a bit odd.

Further, the offense is not just a disappointment because of Trubisky. It is a disappointment because of problems with how he uses personnel, his play calling and frankly his inability to generate a consistent run game. Not to mention, his at times making things more difficult for Trubisky than it has to be.

Given that the D remains dominant with Pagano and with players 95% of whom Nagy had zero input in drafting, I am not sure he deserves credit for stacking wins. You could probably have Mel Tucker as DC and this D is going to be play well. And quite frankly, we would probably be 3-1 right now if John Fox were the coach if he had this D. Perhaps we would have even beat Green Bay because John Fox would not have abandoned the run.

Now he gets credit for last year as at some point he did hit his stride with the offense but we are winning despite Nagy right now IMO not because of him. He has sucked this year and needs to get his shit together.

The main reason was to win games.

The offense has been a disappointment and he has had to learn as he goes. I agree that some of his personnel decisions and "cute" decisions are baffling.

Trubisky not taking a step is concerning, but to me that is more a concern of the evaluation of Trubisky than it is on Nagy's development.

But being a head coach is more than simply game plans and play calls.

 

[remydat]

The main reason was to win games.

The offense has been a disappointment and he has had to learn as he goes. I agree that some of his personnel decisions and "cute" decisions are baffling.

Trubisky not taking a step is concerning, but to me that is more a concern of the evaluation of Trubisky than it is on Nagy's development.

But being a head coach is more than simply game plans and play calls.

The Bears would win regardless of HC given the defense. That is the point.

The 2017 Bears with a rookie Trubisky averaged 16.5 points. The 2019 Bears with Trubisky in his 3rd year are currently averaged 16.5 points. Trubisky not taking a step is not just an issue of evaluation but also one of Nagy's development of him or lack thereof. Can't hire an OC as HC and then absolve him when he can't get more out of the QB than John Fox.

The difference between Nagy and McVay is McVay's offense is designed to make things easy on the QB. Nagy's offense is designed to be complicated and right he is confusing his own team. You can't blame all the penalties and all the failures to execute on Trubisky. This is suppose to be year 2 and most of these guys look even more confused than they were in year 1.

There is nothing about this offense right now that screams to us that they are prepared.

 

[didshereallysaythat]

The Bears would win regardless of HC given the defense. That is the point.

The 2017 Bears with a rookie Trubisky averaged 16.5 points. The 2019 Bears with Trubisky in his 3rd year are currently averaged 16.5 points. Trubisky not taking a step is not just an issue of evaluation but also one of Nagy's development of him or lack thereof. Can't hire an OC as HC and then absolve him when he can't get more out of the QB than John Fox.

The difference between Nagy and McVay is McVay's offense is designed to make things easy on the QB. Nagy's offense is designed to be complicated and right he is confusing his own team. You can't blame all the penalties and all the failures to execute on Trubisky. This is suppose to be year 2 and most of these guys look even more confused than they were in year 1.

There is nothing about this offense right now that screams to us that they are prepared.

So they would be 3-1 with Nagy, or Mel Tucker, or insert worst coach of all time... Yet the would be 4-0 with a good head coach. I love how you just assume that.

 

[Briggs is GOAT]

My favorite Nagy blunder was when he put out that super weird lineup against denver (which made it obvious that no play was going to be called) on 4th down in fg range and tried to draw them offsides. He burned a timeout then kicked the field goal...instead of just kicking the field goal.

 

[jc456]

That penalty wasn't even dumb, IMO. It was soft as hell. Official just should have swallowed his whistle there.

well there should have been a flag on the guy he went off on for roughing the dude with the ball, slamming his head while his arm was wrapped around his neck on a dead ball. Jackson was sticking up for his teammate.

 

[jc456]

My favorite Nagy blunder was when he put out that super weird lineup against denver (which made it obvious that no play was going to be called) on 4th down in fg range and tried to draw them offsides. He burned a timeout then kicked the field goal...instead of just kicking the field goal.

well actually that worked, Vikings had to spend a timeout, 12 men on the field, and then converted. nice.

 

[remydat]

So they would be 3-1 with Nagy, or Mel Tucker, or insert worst coach of all time... Yet the would be 4-0 with a good head coach. I love how you just assume that.

Ok take the rose colored glasses off for a second and let me ask you to be honest about the following.

1. Do you think Nagy is fundamental to how great this defense is playing?

2. What has Nagy accomplished on offense this year? I remind you the offense is scoring at John Fox levels.

I am not suggesting Nagy be fired or is not a good coach as he earned his chops last year when the offense was better. I am suggesting that if the offense and Trubisky has regressed then that is in part on Nagy. He held the starters out of preseason, he claimed Trubs would be fine and he suggested everyone was ready to take the next step in year two. Winning on the back of the defense doesn't mean he has added value on the side of the ball he is obviously more responsible for.