Time to blow it up

GregCubsFan

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I don't think you need a complete rebuild, but man, there definitely needs to be some uptick. I am a huge Bryant fan. Never forget the excitement when he was constantly hitting 450 foot bombs. Not sure where that player went but yikes.

I was never sold on Ross being the man for the Manager job. Seemed like a cheap way out since he's buddies with a lot of the players. You go from a legend like Maddon to a guy without any experience in Ross.
 

knoxville7

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Pretty much what I figured.

Chatwood and Q gone.
Lester takes a 5 mil sure.
Mills is a swing guy but not a lock.
Alzolay they are going to give a spot to.

I see them targeting a FA at min.

Yu, Darvish, Alzolay are locks.

Mills is a swing so expect 2 above him.
Lester is one if he takes 5 mil.

Marquez is not ready and his 1 start showed that he needs to raise his arm slot to get over the ball more.

they should bring back chatwood if he’s into a team friendly deal. Darvish, Hendricks, chatwood, mills, Alzolay should be the rotation next season
 

CSF77

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they should bring back chatwood if he’s into a team friendly deal. Darvish, Hendricks, chatwood, mills, Alzolay should be the rotation next season

Maybe. His history was sketchy and to be honest dumping into him wouldn't be welcome by the fan base. He is viewed as a fail.
 

CSF77

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But looking into the market Tanaka would be a solid investment and a fellow Japanese player for Yu to work with. Not to mention Yu, Kyle and Tanaka are different types of pitchers.

If this off season ends up trading Bryant then signing DJ and Tanaka then signing Lester to a 5 mil offer while telling him that he will be pushed aside when Marquez is ready. I can see the off-season as a success and they would go in as favorite for the central.
 

knoxville7

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Maybe. His history was sketchy and to be honest dumping into him wouldn't be welcome by the fan base. He is viewed as a fail.
A team friendly deal is the key to what I said. I’d rather have chatwood resigned than signing Tanaka. Not to mention I bet Tanaka ends up costing more than chatwood
 

CSF77

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A team friendly deal is the key to what I said. I’d rather have chatwood resigned than signing Tanaka. Not to mention I bet Tanaka ends up costing more than chatwood


He would cost more. He put up 18.9 fWAR over his Yankees run. That is better than Lester gave to the Cubs in return value. He would be 32 on the contract and pitching with Yu might give him interest in running with him on a 3 year deal.

Chatwood IMO is lucky to get a major league deal. For sure he would be a interesting option but it won't happen.

From Theo

"We're going to talk over the next couple days," Epstein said of Lester. "It remains to be seen whether Jon has pitched his last game as a Cub or not. There's certainly the possibility that he continues to call Wrigley Field home."

Epstein later praised the work of right-hander Alec Mills, calling the starter a "dependable" and "adaptable" piece for the Cubs. Epstein also raved about the late-season development and MLB showing of righty Adbert Alzolay.

"Going into the year," Epstein said, "we were hoping that Adbert could develop into a Major League starter, and now we see one. And he's somebody that I think is primed to slide into the rotation."


So from this he said nothing about Q and Chatwood. And rightfully so. Both failed to meet expectations.

Lester did and he is the guy that they would ask back.

Mills had 1 great game but he is a soft tosser and they already have one of those.

Alzolay has higher ended potential and he has been given a spot.

So if all plays out they would be replacing 1 spot and they want to go forward verses spin their wheels with cheaper status que.

Lester makes sense because Marquez is almost ready and they don't need a long term answer.

Mills is not good enough and they need a better answer. Mills started because of injury this year. So I see durability and effectiveness as the goal in a target.

Tanaka has proven to be both. He would be the top target on the market going in because Bauer is looking at 1 year deals and would have a narrow field of team to court him. But on a term deal he is the top pitcher.
 

knoxville7

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He would cost more. He put up 18.9 fWAR over his Yankees run. That is better than Lester gave to the Cubs in return value. He would be 32 on the contract and pitching with Yu might give him interest in running with him on a 3 year deal.

Chatwood IMO is lucky to get a major league deal. For sure he would be a interesting option but it won't happen.

From Theo

"We're going to talk over the next couple days," Epstein said of Lester. "It remains to be seen whether Jon has pitched his last game as a Cub or not. There's certainly the possibility that he continues to call Wrigley Field home."

Epstein later praised the work of right-hander Alec Mills, calling the starter a "dependable" and "adaptable" piece for the Cubs. Epstein also raved about the late-season development and MLB showing of righty Adbert Alzolay.

"Going into the year," Epstein said, "we were hoping that Adbert could develop into a Major League starter, and now we see one. And he's somebody that I think is primed to slide into the rotation."


So from this he said nothing about Q and Chatwood. And rightfully so. Both failed to meet expectations.

Lester did and he is the guy that they would ask back.

Mills had 1 great game but he is a soft tosser and they already have one of those.

Alzolay has higher ended potential and he has been given a spot.

So if all plays out they would be replacing 1 spot and they want to go forward verses spin their wheels with cheaper status que.

Lester makes sense because Marquez is almost ready and they don't need a long term answer.

Mills is not good enough and they need a better answer. Mills started because of injury this year. So I see durability and effectiveness as the goal in a target.

Tanaka has proven to be both. He would be the top target on the market going in because Bauer is looking at 1 year deals and would have a narrow field of team to court him. But on a term deal he is the top pitcher.

I’m not predicting it’s what they do. I’m just saying it’s what they should do. So whatever Theo said is kinda irrelevant.

and I’d MUCH rather have Bauer on a one year deal than sign Tanaka to a multi year deal
 

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Ross was good with the staff. That was his strength as a player and it carried over. He got Caritini to become a strong framer this year. Yu improved. The pen improved as the season progressed


The line up suffered. Hitting was not a strength for David and it was not a strength this year

What to take out of it? They need a hitting coach that the hitters will respect.

The line up in general was poor this year and that weakness played out. This should have been the expected result as it was a issue going in.

So turn over is needed. They have too many of the same type. Bryant needs to be traded in a good market for 3B. If they aim high targeting Lemheu is a strong choice.

I just believe that this team needs some adjusting and adding a hitting coach that doesn't preach wait for a HR pitch.
Agreed with what has been wrong. That's really in a player's DNA by the time they are at AAA, if not in college. What they have are too many players who swing and miss. They need guys who can hit singles and for average. Cubs had 7 players with 20 HR+ last season and the Cardinals only had 3. Cards were the better team. In this day and age with the relief pitchers throwing 97-100, I'm not sure the best approach is taking a bunch of pitches to get to the bullpen. Perhaps against #1/#2 types SP, but attack at plate needs to be variable day by day. A hitting coach isn't going to change that. That's on the organization to find those types of hitters and have some real differences between hitters in the lineup.
 

CSF77

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Agreed with what has been wrong. That's really in a player's DNA by the time they are at AAA, if not in college. What they have are too many players who swing and miss. They need guys who can hit singles and for average. Cubs had 7 players with 20 HR+ last season and the Cardinals only had 3. Cards were the better team. In this day and age with the relief pitchers throwing 97-100, I'm not sure the best approach is taking a bunch of pitches to get to the bullpen. Perhaps against #1/#2 types SP, but attack at plate needs to be variable day by day. A hitting coach isn't going to change that. That's on the organization to find those types of hitters and have some real differences between hitters in the lineup.

Like I said. I would target DJ for 3B. He is a hit machine and they need that. 2B I would let Nico go 100%. Both are hit first players. Baez is another that puts the ball into play.
 

CSF77

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I’m not predicting it’s what they do. I’m just saying it’s what they should do. So whatever Theo said is kinda irrelevant.

and I’d MUCH rather have Bauer on a one year deal than sign Tanaka to a multi year deal


What they should do. Well my take is give Lester 5 mil. Give Mills another year to see if he is better than a filler. Keep Marquez in Iowa to build up innings and give him Sept as a Cub.

That is what they should do.

Line up trade Schwarber and Bryant. Target DJ Leamheu for 3B and start Nico 2B. Resign Maybin for LF.

Pen they would need to replace Jeffries. I wouldn't invest heavy here and resigning Jeffries might be the best choice.
 

JimJohnson

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I don't think you need a complete rebuild, but man, there definitely needs to be some uptick. I am a huge Bryant fan. Never forget the excitement when he was constantly hitting 450 foot bombs. Not sure where that player went but yikes.

I was never sold on Ross being the man for the Manager job. Seemed like a cheap way out since he's buddies with a lot of the players. You go from a legend like Maddon to a guy without any experience in Ross.

Can't blame Ross for the Cubs scoring 1 run in 18 innings during the playoffs.
 

PickSix

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Like I said. I would target DJ for 3B. He is a hit machine and they need that. 2B I would let Nico go 100%. Both are hit first players. Baez is another that puts the ball into play.

Baez does not put the ball into play. His strike out rate is flat out atrocious.
 

CSF77

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Baez does not put the ball into play. His strike out rate is flat out atrocious.

Ya this year it spiked. I noticed that he was fed more breaking pitches this year and he hit .157 .255 vs fastballs. That was a factor because he hit the breaking ball fine in the past.

So I would toss this year out because it was an exception. He struggled on breaking pitches and they fed it to him.
 

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Can't blame Ross for the Cubs scoring 1 run in 18 innings during the playoffs.
It's a manager's job to maximize the performance of the players the FO provides. Did he do that?
 

JimJohnson

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It's a manager's job to maximize the performance of the players the FO provides. Did he do that?

How do you maximize the performance of guys who can't hit during the playoffs? It's not like they were hitting in 18 or 19 either. So it's a bad trend and not something that started under Ross.
 

CSF77

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Some interesting points:

So get ready for another winter of nonstop rumors about Kris Bryant and maybe Kyle Schwarber or even Willson Contreras — and for rumors of free agent and trade pursuits of established hitters with the kind of contact skills that can diversify a monolithic lineup of inconsistent grind-and-slug.

Wilson makes sense as Amaya could in theory back up Caratini this year. Him being the #91 prospect makes a good time to prime him in a transition year.


One upside compared to a year ago for a front office boxed in the last two years by its franchise-record payroll obligations and budget pinch is that only five players are signed to 2021 contracts (Jason Heyward, Yu Darvish, Craig Kimbrel, Kyle Hendricks and David Bote) for a combined commitment of $74 million — six at $90.5 million counting the all-but-assured move to exercise Anthony Rizzo’s contract option.

More than $40 million falls off the books in expiring contracts, including Tyler Chatwood’s, José Quintana’s and Jon Lester’s (though Lester might return on a renegotiated, smaller deal after his $25 million option is bought out).

The downside is that the front office already faced a dire need to lower payroll enough to reset its luxury-tax status for 2021 or face an extremely punitive third successive year of violation. And that process is compounded by an economic landscape that limits potential trade partners for moving big-ticket players — at best — and potentially roils the trade markets enough to complicate such trades with any potential buyer.

Specifically, we’re talking about such arbitration-eligible core hitters as Bryant ($18.6 million, full-season salary in 2020), Javy Báez ($10 million), Schwarber ($7.01 million) and Contreras ($4.5 million).


Now this statement holds true across baseball. Most teams are going to be hesitant to make long term commitments in a unsure time in history. They do not know if they will have fans or not to support. So 1 year control trades is a option for these teams going into 2021. Being a F/A right now is not a good place to be in and I expect a bunch of players taking arb.

Theo has been pretty transparent that he wants to stay this year. This is a retool not a reboot. Some will go some will stay.

What to make of it all? They are dropping 40 mil in contract going in. They have 92 mil that they have to honor right now.
Rizzo's 2 mil buy out and Lester's 10 mil buy out are included. You could tack on 17.5 mil if they retain both.

109.5 mil with a 210 mil tax cap. Leaves them 100 mil to fund a team. I expect 50 mil TBH to be reasonable in this unstable environment.

Arb cases:
Bryant (20 mil)
Baez (12 mil)
Schwarber (10 mil)
Contreras (8 mil)
Martinez (3 mil)
Alamora (2 mil)
Ryan (1 mil)
Happ (1 mil)
Caratini (1mil)

Rest of them are making under 600K each.

Looking at it trading Bryant, Schwarber and Contreras removes 38 mil from the 50 mil. Retaining Baez, Happ and Cararini would cost 14-17 mil. Then back filling with Amaya as the back up catcher. Bote would still be on 3B. Nico slots into 2B and Vargas becomes the main UI.

To me this might end up as the plan. Sell 3 and reload the system.
 

CSF77

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How do you maximize the performance of guys who can't hit during the playoffs? It's not like they were hitting in 18 or 19 either. So it's a bad trend and not something that started under Ross.

In the play offs the intensity rises. Every pitch and play holds that much more impact. That is the main difference between the reg and a series.

I look at it as the Cubs struggled as a unit going in. The pitching staff carried the team to the play offs. So that is exactly what Ross's strengths and weakness as a manager are. In the play offs it translated the same.

So I expect some coaching changes to shore up this issue.

Anthony Iapoce 99Hitting Coach
most likely to be axed list.


Mike Napoli 55Quality Assurance Coach
I can see being moved in as assistant at min. He might even make a good hitting coach but I am not sure if he will be given the opportunity with the lack of experience.

Manny Ramirez last played On August 29, 2020, Ramirez signed a one year deal with the Sydney Blue Sox to be a player-coach. He might be a solid choice as he has already worked with Javy and could bond with them better,
 

Gustavus Adolphus

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There's no more overrated/overblown/unnecessary concept in professional sports than an MLB coaching staff. It's the players, not the coaches.
 

CSF77

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There's no more overrated/overblown/unnecessary concept in professional sports than an MLB coaching staff. It's the players, not the coaches.

A coaching staff is there to teach and train hitters on approach. Are they grinding out PA's or giving up easy outs.

A front office is in charge of acquiring talent.

So yes it is on the player as a end result but there is more to it than black and white.

Why even pay these guys if they have 0 impact on the results. That my friend is delusional.
 

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A coaching staff is there to teach and train hitters on approach. Are they grinding out PA's or giving up easy outs.

A front office is in charge of acquiring talent.

So yes it is on the player as a end result but there is more to it than black and white.

Why even pay these guys if they have 0 impact on the results. That my friend is delusional.
David Ross can't call a play.
 

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