Toews Out Too, WTF?

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Every damn thing about the Slackhawks is depressing.
They have no responsibility on the front orifice, no knowledge of how to acquire good players, including how to develop them.
What we saw during the Q years will never be seen again and, at 83Y/O, I'm not at all ready to wait around.
Also, I am PISSED that they are wasting the Flower's last years with a shit show like it is.
Let him go to somewhere where his legacy will end positively.
Maybe also Kane.
Goddamn the two cancer cells AKA bowmans.
 

JimAKABlkhwks918

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I still believe that if you put Dach on a stud team, he'd be solid, if not great. I feel like he's one of those players that if the Hawks do trade him, he'll flourish on another squad, especially a stacked team.
I think he'd be solid, probably not great, but it isn't going to happen here...the Hawks and probably he would best be served by a fresh start elsewhere for him and draft capital for the Hawks.
 

KBIB

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I think he'd be solid, probably not great, but it isn't going to happen here...the Hawks and probably he would best be served by a fresh start elsewhere for him and draft capital for the Hawks.
Well, if he can’t be a factor here when he was given the top line and Cat and Kane as line mates, he sure as shit isn’t cracking the top six on a stacked team if not the top nine.

He’s a bust.
 

Granada

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I think he'd be solid, probably not great, but it isn't going to happen here...the Hawks and probably he would best be served by a fresh start elsewhere for him and draft capital for the Hawks.
You could very well be right, but personally, I'd keep him next year. I'd like to see what he can do under a real coach, which he's never had. Unless the return is phenomenal, but at this point, you're probably netting another "project" back anyway (i.e. Strome for Schmaltz). If the Hawks are rebuilding next year anyway, I say just keep him and see what he can do -- it's not like he'll hinder a playoff run. The only thing is, he's RFA this off-season, so that may complicate things. For as much as people like shitting on the guy, I've seen worse players.
 

LordKOTL

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You could very well be right, but personally, I'd keep him next year. I'd like to see what he can do under a real coach, which he's never had. Unless the return is phenomenal, but at this point, you're probably netting another "project" back anyway (i.e. Strome for Schmaltz). If the Hawks are rebuilding next year anyway, I say just keep him and see what he can do -- it's not like he'll hinder a playoff run. The only thing is, he's RFA this off-season, so that may complicate things. For as much as people like shitting on the guy, I've seen worse players.
It would also depend on what he's asking for/will get as an RFA. In tersm of his numbers it works out well for the 'hawks because his numbers are down so much he should come cheap. In the negative, if his career trajectory is more like Frolik, or worse Sergei Samsonov, it will be a complete bust if we can't move him for something coming back--assuming of course his career is trending downards.

However, I do think that with the right complimentary players he might thrive well--even if not as a center. I really don't think the 'hawks have those players moving forward, though. But, if he's cheap enough, what's it really hurting? Like you said; we aren't going anywhere.

But as I said about almost every single potential future move, if the 'hawks move on from Dach it has to be the right move--something to build on the future--not another mediocre 4-5 D-man.
 

Granada

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It would also depend on what he's asking for/will get as an RFA. In tersm of his numbers it works out well for the 'hawks because his numbers are down so much he should come cheap. In the negative, if his career trajectory is more like Frolik, or worse Sergei Samsonov, it will be a complete bust if we can't move him for something coming back--assuming of course his career is trending downards.

However, I do think that with the right complimentary players he might thrive well--even if not as a center. I really don't think the 'hawks have those players moving forward, though. But, if he's cheap enough, what's it really hurting? Like you said; we aren't going anywhere.

But as I said about almost every single potential future move, if the 'hawks move on from Dach it has to be the right move--something to build on the future--not another mediocre 4-5 D-man.
True. I can't see him commanding much more than he's making now.

The main question is, even if one assumes he will never live up to 3rd overall expectations, does that automatically make him expendable? I'd argue no. If the guy can become a solid 3rd liner or top-six player -- both of which are still possible -- why can't he still be a piece you build around? I mean people rave about Hagel -- rightfully so -- but he will never be any better than a great 3rd line player. Yet he's a player almost everyone agrees is one you build around and keep. Even if Dach isn't a player who can carry your franchise alone, he can still be a valuable piece that's worth keeping long term.
 

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True. I can't see him commanding much more than he's making now.

The main question is, even if one assumes he will never live up to 3rd overall expectations, does that automatically make him expendable? I'd argue no. If the guy can become a solid 3rd liner or top-six player -- both of which are still possible -- why can't he still be a piece you build around? I mean people rave about Hagel -- rightfully so -- but he will never be any better than a great 3rd line player. Yet he's a player almost everyone agrees is one you build around and keep. Even if Dach isn't a player who can carry your franchise alone, he can still be a valuable piece that's worth keeping long term.
In my estimation Hagel is of a similar cut of player that Bolland, Kruger, Frolik, and Shaw were (and possibly a Ladd-upside)--someone who is probably best suited as a 3rd liner and excels in that role, but could probably play in the top-6 if necessary and not shoot the team in the foot. Further, with the right linemates they could turn a 3rd line into a 1c line. The only way you move on from those players is if they (a) ask for and command more than they are worth, (b) their games starts to deteriorate, (c) the roster is locked and you have players who are de facto better in all of the important aspects of the game who can take over their role and do it better, or very similar at a cheaper cost, or (d) the team is going nowhere fast and a piece with is a real need with respect to the rebuild/putting a team over the top will come at a cost for giving up said player.

Dach, in that respect, is interesting. I agree with many of your assertions that his game away from the puck is very good especially at his age. His faceoffs need work and his point totals are not commensuate with his draft pedigree, but you are right in that he's not Nylander/Sikura/Campoli/Zyuzin/Fake tits on a zombie-level of useless--he is indeed a decent player and there's no real reason to move on from him unless someone better pops up:

Using the same litmus test as in the previous paragraph:
  • Does Dach price himself out?
    Unlikely. He's not arbitration-eligible. Unless a team offer-sheets him at questionable sum it's unlikely he'll price himself out--and in the offer-sheet scenario my estimation is ~3-4M is the cut-off point, depending on who the GM is and the likelihood of pulling in a decent acquisition in the 2nd round. Over 4M (which I doubt another GM would do), you take the 1st and 3rd and run.
  • Is Dach's game deteriorating
    No.
  • Is there a player who is in all aspects better than Dach that makes him superfluous?
    No--in fact absolutely not. I've seen microscope slides with more depth than the 'hawks have in every respect.
  • Would Dach be a piece that could fetch a piece in return that helps the rebuild?
    This actually could happen, but no guarantees that it will. Any GM worth their salt would listen to offers which ask for Dach, but unless the return is a real need (like, say, a possible 1-2 D-man who is still young, somewhat inexpensive and on the cusp of a breakout but is jammed up behind established D-men), you don't simply trade him.
And for the record, the same could apply to Hagel. If the 'hawks were able to flop Hagel out for a guy who plays Hagel's game, but was closer to, say .75 PPG rather than .5ppg, I think you gotta do it.
 

Granada

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Other than at the dot, Dach had a fantastic game last night. He might be the best player along the boards on this team -- maybe that's not saying much, but still. He really is learning to use his frame and protect the puck. People forget how desperate we were for a player who can actually keep the puck along the boards and not cough it up at even the slightest check. He's also one of the few net-front presence guys we have. Anyways, great game by him, and great play to begin the rush that led to the first goal.
 

Probie2429

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Dach will be fine. It was always going to be the case that he would need 3-4 years to start hitting his stride. He’s supposed to play a big boy’s game but he simply doesn’t have the bulk to do it as an 19-21 year old. It’s much easier for a guy like Kane to come into the league because these 18-20 year olds rely on pure skill.
 

Probie2429

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And Toews was a unicorn back in the day because he was built like a 100 year old oak tree trunk, which most kids aren’t at that age.
 

KBIB

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After hearing about the shit Toews is saying again, I can confirm I was right all along.
 

Granada

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After hearing about the shit Toews is saying again, I can confirm I was right all along.
Um, then why hasn't he just sat out since returning? It's not like the team hasn't sucked since
 

KBIB

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Um, then why hasn't he just sat out since returning? It's not like the team hasn't sucked since
Maybe to audition for a playoff team?

Nobody is taking a guy who has sat out two years in a row.

If the Hawks are willing to retain 50% on him for his final year he has a considerable amount of value in his final year just on his playoff pedigree alone.

While many here were simping the guy and his sob story about some made up ailment I’ve been doing nothing but telling it like it is.

Where did the Adam Boqvist boot lickers run to btw? I recall some here saying how great he was and he just matched his career total in games played for the year in Columbus after having two fantastic turns on the IR because he can’t stay healthy with rumors he’s already worn out his welcome there.

Sorry, guys. I’ve been right this entire time.
 

Granada

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Maybe to audition for a playoff team?

Nobody is taking a guy who has sat out two years in a row.

If the Hawks are willing to retain 50% on him for his final year he has a considerable amount of value in his final year just on his playoff pedigree alone.

While many here were simping the guy and his sob story about some made up ailment I’ve been doing nothing but telling it like it is.

Where did the Adam Boqvist boot lickers run to btw? I recall some here saying how great he was and he just matched his career total in games played for the year in Columbus after having two fantastic turns on the IR because he can’t stay healthy with rumors he’s already worn out his welcome there.

Sorry, guys. I’ve been right this entire time.
Or maybe he just loves the sport he's played since he was a child and really did have a health issue he was dealing with. But do you, lol.
 

KBIB

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Or maybe he just loves the sport he's played since he was a child and really did have a health issue he was dealing with. But do you, lol.
You still don’t get it, but whatevs.

Toews comes out two years ago questioning a rebuild.

Toews then sits out an entire year from some questionable illness.

Blowman goes and trades a bust in Boqvist and high draft picks for a first pairing defenseman and gets the vezina winner for nothing.

Toews says nothing but how great it is to be back.

Toews forgets his coach is a fucking clown and the Hawks proceed to humiliate themselves at the beginning of the season.

Davidson comes out and says the hawks are in a rebuild. Players get traded, Toews starts pouting once again. Notice a huge upgrade in Toews play after the deadline.

Like I said, I was right.
 

HSBOB

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Maybe to audition for a playoff team?

Nobody is taking a guy who has sat out two years in a row.

If the Hawks are willing to retain 50% on him for his final year he has a considerable amount of value in his final year just on his playoff pedigree alone.

While many here were simping the guy and his sob story about some made up ailment I’ve been doing nothing but telling it like it is.

Where did the Adam Boqvist boot lickers run to btw? I recall some here saying how great he was and he just matched his career total in games played for the year in Columbus after having two fantastic turns on the IR because he can’t stay healthy with rumors he’s already worn out his welcome there.

Sorry, guys. I’ve been right this entire time.
Yeah.......ya lost me at "made up ailment"!
 

Granada

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You still don’t get it, but whatevs.

Toews comes out two years ago questioning a rebuild.

Toews then sits out an entire year from some questionable illness.

Blowman goes and trades a bust in Boqvist and high draft picks for a first pairing defenseman and gets the vezina winner for nothing.

Toews says nothing but how great it is to be back.

Toews forgets his coach is a fucking clown and the Hawks proceed to humiliate themselves at the beginning of the season.

Davidson comes out and says the hawks are in a rebuild. Players get traded, Toews starts pouting once again. Notice a huge upgrade in Toews play after the deadline.

Like I said, I was right.
Toews may very well get traded -- anything is possible -- but that still wouldn't prove your conspiracy theory. Just saying.
 

blackpep72

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You still don’t get it, but whatevs.

Toews comes out two years ago questioning a rebuild.

Toews then sits out an entire year from some questionable illness.

Blowman goes and trades a bust in Boqvist and high draft picks for a first pairing defenseman and gets the vezina winner for nothing.

Toews says nothing but how great it is to be back.

Toews forgets his coach is a fucking clown and the Hawks proceed to humiliate themselves at the beginning of the season.

Davidson comes out and says the hawks are in a rebuild. Players get traded, Toews starts pouting once again. Notice a huge upgrade in Toews play after the deadline.

Like I said, I was right.
So assuming your theory is correct. Why would he play better AFTER the trade deadline??
 

KBIB

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So assuming your theory is correct. Why would he play better AFTER the trade deadline??
To audition for a cup contender next year.

One retention spots open up you will see Toews traded.
 

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