Trade Scenarios...

[Lefty]

Yeah I know but his avrage ain't bad but he soes not take walks which hurts.

Batting average does not correlate nearly as well with run scoring as OPS and other things not named batting average. There's a reason guys like Adam Dunn (who never has hit for an eye-popping batting average but gets on-base and hits for power like few in the league) are so valuable while other high-average, low-everything-else guys (Juan Pierre and his ilk) just don't compare in terms of value added.

 

[waldo7239117]

Batting average does not correlate nearly as well with run scoring as OPS and other things not named batting average. There's a reason guys like Adam Dunn (who never has hit for an eye-popping batting average but gets on-base and hits for power like few in the league) are so valuable while other high-average, low-everything-else guys (Juan Pierre and his ilk) just don't compare in terms of value added.

Oh year Dunn hits for a low average in the low 200's but Theriot is still at .280. But I know he has to take walks.

 

[Lefty]

I always like it when guys like Theriot get blamed and guys like Lee get a free pass. Lee's a paper tiger. What a waste of money. They should dump him ASAP and bring up Vidders.

1) Yeah, Lee's .298/.380/.526 line since joining the Cubs and the near 20 wins he has provided the team since joining are totally meaningless and over-hyped.

2) Vitters wasn't a world-beater in high-A this year, and is now struggling mightily in AA. He's also only 20.

Get a clue, then you can open your mouth again.

 

[Lefty]

Oh year Dunn hits for a low average in the low 200's but Theriot is still at .280. But I know he has to take walks.

This makes absolutely no sense. I have no idea what you are trying to communicate. Please try again.

 

[waldo7239117]

This makes absolutely no sense. I have no idea what you are trying to communicate. Please try again.

ummm if Theriot takes walks his stats will improve.

 

[Got teeth? Keith doesn't.]

ummm if Theriot takes walks his stats will improve.

And if I get punched in the face by Chuck Liddell, I'll cry. :lmao:

 

[Lefty]

ummm if Theriot takes walks his stats will improve.

But taking a large number of walks has never been a part of Theriot's game. Looking at him through wOBA, it becomes clear that he derives most of his value from batting average. So yes, it would be great if Theriot all of a sudden turned into a walking, on-base demon, but there is no reason to believe that he will, as even in seasons where he has had a great OBP, much of that is begotten from a high batting average, i.e. not taking many walks.

 

[waldo7239117]

But taking a large number of walks has never been a part of Theriot's game. Looking at him through wOBA, it becomes clear that he derives most of his value from batting average. So yes, it would be great if Theriot all of a sudden turned into a walking, on-base demon, but there is no reason to believe that he will, as even in seasons where he has had a great OBP, much of that is begotten from a high batting average, i.e. not taking many walks.

But he has been way to agressive this year and his average is still not to bad at .280.

 

[waldo7239117]

But taking a large number of walks has never been a part of Theriot's game. Looking at him through wOBA, it becomes clear that he derives most of his value from batting average. So yes, it would be great if Theriot all of a sudden turned into a walking, on-base demon, but there is no reason to believe that he will, as even in seasons where he has had a great OBP, much of that is begotten from a high batting average, i.e. not taking many walks.

But he has been way to agressive this year and his average is still not to bad at .280.

 

[Capt. Serious]

You can say that but he is not as bad as you are saying him to be.

He's a pussy armed infielder.

 

[waldo7239117]

He's a pussy armed infielder.

I will give you that but he can throw good from 2B :dunno:

 

[Capt. Serious]

Theriot starts out hot then he disappears when the month hits September.

 

[Lefty]

But he has been way to agressive this year and his average is still not to bad at .280.

Look, I'll say it as simply as I can: Ryan Theriot has never derived much of his value from getting on base in ways that don't involve getting hits. Getting on via the walk has never been a complimentary piece to where he gets most of his value: batting average (even in 2006 when he posted a .412 OBP in 159 PA's, he had a .328 AVG).

So then, in order to get that OBP back up to acceptable levels, assuming his batting average stays somewhat constant, he will need to start taking walks at a pace he has never achieved before. Therefore, to just say "he needs to start taking walks" is completely understating the issue and, really, completely disregarding what he has done his entire career.

So yes, if Theriot starts taking walks at a clip he has never even sniffed before (we're talking the 17.4% walk rate Adam Dunn put up in 2009, or even the 15.4% rate his teammate Fukudome put up in the same year), he will become a valuable piece to the ballclub, but there is no reason whatsoever to believe this probable or even possible given his skill set.

 

[zwentland]

I think getting rid of Lee, Gorzo, and Kosuke would be good ideas. I didn't like the idea of getting rid of Theriot or the first trade of getting a SS. We already have 2, we don't need any more

 

[Lefty]

I think getting rid of Lee, Gorzo, and Kosuke would be good ideas. I didn't like the idea of getting rid of Theriot or the first trade of getting a SS. We already have 2, we don't need any more

Two of those players have no-trade protection to go along with huge salaries. It isn't as simple as saying "he's not helping the team, get rid of him". This is a business, and the Cubs are a business that has brand new owners that just shelled out a chunk of money that rivals the GDP of some third-world nations; they aren't going to be chomping at the bit to eat salary anytime soon (as they would surely have to do to get rid of D-Lee and Fukudome). And the other, Gorzelanny, still has 2 years of arbitration remaining, why get rid of him?