VDN blows timeouts; Bulls lose

[Hendu0520]

Diddy1122 wrote:

In game 1 it took an amazing game by Rondo & Pierce just to stay with us, despite the fact we turned the ball over 17 times. In game 2 it took another amazing Rondo performance, equally amazing Allen performance, & a career game from Big Baby just to beat us by 3. And we gave up 21 offensive rebounds.

I would say confidence should be at an all time high. The Bulls havent even played their best ball in this series yet. There have been amazing individual performances, but not a dominating team performance which I expect to see at the UC on Thursday.

Bulls in 6.

Thank you, everyone is pretty negative, but the Bulls played it close and it was a very exciting game. I knew after watching that everyone would be pissed at not having a timeout there, and so was I, big mistake is right. But that was just an amazing shot by Ray Allen, great defense by Noah on the play, that should not have gone in. So they probably should have won game one and the Bulls should have won game two. They have split the games in Boston and still haven't put a complete team on the floor. Noah, Thomas, and Miller were just getting outmuscled, that's why they were able to grab all of those rebounds off of fouls shots, that is just pure strength. I knew the refs would let their big men muscle us this game. Nothing they can do about that other than have some guards come down to help on the boards. Rose had a great all around game but yes could have been a bit more aggressive, he is young though. The thing that pissed me off the most is Big Baby you have got to be kidding me. And I don't think Rondo was all that injured, we just stopped guarding him like other teams do. Why are we chasing him? He sucks just back off and let him runaround like a buffoon just like he did in the 2nd half tonight. Stop guarding him. Great to see Ben step up in a big game, I am happy with the Bulls effort and think that they probably take both home games. We'll see after that.

 

[??? ??????]

I don't know how you can blame Vinny. He had his team prepared at a high intensity level for the second straight game in Boston.

He used his timeouts right, and the Ben Gordon play was right. You want to take a relatively early shot, so if you miss, you have a chance to get the rebound and try to get another shot, or have time to foul and get another play in. After that, Boston would have the ball for the last posession, which they pretty much did, milking most of the clock. You have to get the defensive stop there. It's not about having timeouts left for after Boston makes a basket. It's about getting a defensive stop, one what Boston is milking for the last posession of regulation.

This loss is definitely on the bigs. They would just stand there and not grab the ball as it was bouncing, and they need to seriously body people up better.

But I'm not worried. Boston is all banged up and hardly beat us here. I think we stand a good chance to win both at home, and don't see us doing worse than splitting them.

 

[dunkside.com]

Re:Vinny...

Newskoolbulls wrote:

sdeezy wrote:

21 offensive boards..thats all you need to say

This is squarely on our frontcourt

Thank Mr. Thomas for a good 12 of those.

I really don't know how you can fit that much crap in your mouth.

Tyrus was not on the floor for most of the 4th quarter, yet the Bulls kept giving up offensive rebounds. Rondo got 6 off rebounds for the game, which tells me Derrick Rose and/or Hinrich were not boxing him out at all.

In the play by play I counted 11 off rebounds by the Celtics while Tyrus was not on the floor. Except for the fact that your maths sucks (21 - 10 = 11, so he couldn't be blamed for 12) you have the audacity to put all the offensive rebounds by the Celtics while he was on the floor squarely on him ?!

Also, if you take a look at reb/40min Tyrus' number is pretty close to Noah's. Tyrus got 4 reb in 20 min, Noah got 8 in 39. Again, it's simple math.

If you allow me to make a suggestion, perhaps you'd be better served if instead of wasting your time posting 100 thoughtless posts/day you'd take your ass to school and learn a thing or two.

If you ever took the time to think things through (yeah, it's a new concept) you'd understand that the problem is that the Bulls front court is so much lighter than the Celtics' front court it's not even funny. It's very easy for the likes of Perkins or Big Baby or even Powe to push Tyrus and Noah around. And Brad Miller is too slow, so if the ball doesn't fall in his lap, he's not gonna be able to get to it.

What Vinnie should do is to instruct ALL of his players to crash hard the defensive boards instead of running on the fast break. The strategy of running out as soon as a shot goes up worked for the Bulls in the 1st game but (and I guess this was an adjustment by Doc Rivers) it worked against them in the 2nd game.

In fact this is where you can see how good a coach is - little adjustments that end up winning/losing a series.

One other option, and one that I would certainly try, would be to play a big line-up of Rose, Gordon, Tyrus, Noah, Miller. Tyrus hit enough of those J's to keep the defense honest, we know Miller has range, Noah can come play pick&roll with Rose and Gordon can wait for the defense to collapse so he gets an open look from 3. On D I'd have Miller on Perking, Noah on Big Baby and Tyrus on Pierce. If Tyrus manages to stay on his feet, I'm pretty sure he can to a good job on Pierce.


charity stripe wrote:

Tyrus' blocks went right back to the Celtics for offensive boards which translated to easy buckets. That happens very often and gets overlooked. So his spectacular blocked shots are actually harmful to the team.

that's gotta be the latest development in basketball: give up layups instead of blocking them. yeah, that seems like a damn good idea.

/sarcasm

 

[dougthonus]

Re:Vinny...

I don't know how you can blame Vinny. He had his team prepared at a high intensity level for the second straight game in Boston.

He used his timeouts right

I agree with the first part, that Vinny has done a good job of getting the guys ready to play, either that or they've done a good job of it themselves. However, we've come out prepared.

We never did seem to find a way to keep them off the offensive glass though, we were getting killed there in the first half, and we continued to get killed in the second half. We never were able to adjust though we had our two best rebounders in the game, so I'm not sure what else we could have done other than telling them to stop rotating so hard on help defense.

Part of that was bad luck that a lot of balls just seemed to bounce their way.

The timeouts were not used correctly. We ran a Gordon isolation after each timeout. That's fine, but it's hardly worth calling a timeout for. You could just scream Gordon isolation from the top of your lungs at the sideline and get the same result. We were again left with no TOs at the end, in a situation where you knew we would need one.

Vinny may be doing a great job with the locker room stuff and the behind the scenes stuff that we can't really judge since we don't know how much is on his shoulders vs how much is the players themselves. His in game management definitely doesn't seem impressive to me. Had he saved a timeout, we'd have had a chance to win this game. He's REALLY lucky that his lack of saving a timeout didn't lose us the game last time.

 

[Ralphb07]

dougthonus wrote:

That's what scares me is the crowd at the UC has been weak all year and we can't have that.

I've been to every playoff game since 04/05, and the UC crowd has always been outstanding in the playoffs.

I'm glad to hear that Doug because there weak very weak in the Reg season. These next two games decide the series IMO and I feel the Crowd will be a big part


On the timeout thing. We talked a lot about this after Game 1. IMO the timeout wasn't bad last night if we winded the clock down more but to give Boston 12.3 seconds on the clock was bad.

We should of shot the ball with around 4 seconds and live with him making it or missing it.

I've never understood when you can pretty much kill the clock that you take the shot too early

Overall we're 1-1 with playing two very close games and get to go back home. We gotta come out strong Thursday and win both these games

 

[dougthonus]

On the timeout thing. We talked a lot about this after Game 1. IMO the timeout wasn't bad last night if we winded the clock down more but to give Boston 12.3 seconds on the clock was bad.

We should of shot the ball with around 4 seconds and live with him making it or missing it.

What would be the point of winding down the click to 4 seconds and shooting?

If you miss it, you don't have a chance to win.

If you make it, they still get a last shot to win or go to OT.

I think it was the right decision to take the first good shot. If it's an early one, then you still get a chance to foul and have another possession. If it's a later one then that's okay too in this case.

The key though is to make that shot, and I think by trying to run the clock you would have lowered your odds of doing so.

 

[Wade Wilson]

Rose and the other guards have gotta be better on the boards as well, 21 rebounds in two games is insane for a 6'1 guard, especially 7 offensive last night.

 

[chi_hawks_23]

After a nights sleep and some time to put things in perspective, I am still somewhat optimistic that the bulls can win this series. A split is about all you can ask for, and we damn near stole both games in Boston. Game 3 is going to be huge....a win there and we are right back in the drivers seat. I think if we win both of these home games (3 and 4), we will win the series. If we split or lose both, we will lose the series.

I'm no psychic, but I just don't see us winning another game in Boston. (Although we have played them tough, twice, in boston).

Also, something that shouldn't be lost is how far this team has come as of late. A month ago we were begging for the 8 seed...a chance to get killed by Cleveland. Now we are bitching over what could have been a 2-0 lead against the defending champs.

Im really proud of this Bulls team, regardless of how this series turns out.

 

[Poohdini fan#1]

chi_hawks_23 wrote:

Also, something that shouldn't be lost is how far this team has come as of late. A month ago we were begging for the 8 seed...a chance to get killed by Cleveland. Now we are bitching over what could have been a 2-0 lead against the defending champs.

Im really proud of this Bulls team, regardless of how this series turns out.

Agreed. Even though we lost this game I still feel good about the bulls chances of winning this thing.

 

[dougthonus]

I think most Bulls fans would have taken it if you said before the series started that we'd come back to Chicago 1-1, and play within the final possession of both games.

 

[chi_hawks_23]

dougthonus wrote:

I think most Bulls fans would have taken it if you said before the series started that we'd come back to Chicago 1-1, and play within the final possession of both games.

Doug, do you think after BG's game2 performance that Pax will go 'above and beyond' to re-sign him next year?

If we somehow pull this series win out, and Ben averages 25 ppg, it would be public suicide for Bulls management to let him walk....without at least offering him a 10-12mil per year contract....regardless of what it does to our lux tax line.

I know, I know....JR has his rules...but he isn't Special person either. Do you think he would realistically let Gordon go, considering how the media outlets and bulls fans would be irate?

 

[Fred]

chi_hawks_23 wrote:

dougthonus wrote:

I think most Bulls fans would have taken it if you said before the series started that we'd come back to Chicago 1-1, and play within the final possession of both games.

If we somehow pull this series win out, and Ben averages 25 ppg, it would be public suicide for Bulls management to let him walk....without at least offering him a 10-12mil per year contract....regardless of what it does to our lux tax line.

Public suicide? The majority of people in this Forum are intelligent. There is a drone army out there. I am certain that there will be more Bulls fans agreeing with Reinsdorf's decision to let him go.

Anyone listen to the ESPN 1000 pregame show? A drone sent in a question to Wennington, basically saying "I wouldn't mind seeing Ben go. Kirk can do everything he can, except he plays better defense. Would you re-sign Ben?"

Wennington responded he would re-sing him for the right price. "If Ben wants 70 million, then no, let him go." But Bill wouldn't mind resigning him on the cheap.

He's gone. Frankly, with the way this organization has treated him by offering an inferior player like Luol Deng more money TWICE, he should go, and the vast majority of Bulls fans, aka drones, won't give a damn.

 

[Ralphb07]

dougthonus wrote:

On the timeout thing. We talked a lot about this after Game 1. IMO the timeout wasn't bad last night if we winded the clock down more but to give Boston 12.3 seconds on the clock was bad.

We should of shot the ball with around 4 seconds and live with him making it or missing it.

What would be the point of winding down the click to 4 seconds and shooting?

If you miss it, you don't have a chance to win.

If you make it, they still get a last shot to win or go to OT.

I think it was the right decision to take the first good shot. If it's an early one, then you still get a chance to foul and have another possession. If it's a later one then that's okay too in this case.

The key though is to make that shot, and I think by trying to run the clock you would have lowered your odds of doing so.

The shot wasn't even a good one Gordon was just hot. He had two guys on him and he would of got that same look.

In Game 1 I was okay with how Vinny handle things and was cool with not having the timeout but Game 2 was different. Having Noah foul Pierce and leaving time he should of made that adjustment in Game 2 saving one just incase

I would of been Okay with him taking the final timeout if he was going to take the final shot but shooting the ball so early made the timeout a bad thing. That's really my point I guess is that if you wannna take the timeout make sure it's the final shot.

But what I think is more of a concern is the 2nd chance points which is what really killed us. The game should of never got to that point but we couldn't grab a damn rebound.

We gotta remain positive and be happy we went to Boston played two tough games and came away with a split. Vinny needs to watch film and make sure we don't give up so many rebounds.

 

[dougthonus]

Fred wrote:

chi_hawks_23 wrote:

dougthonus wrote:

I think most Bulls fans would have taken it if you said before the series started that we'd come back to Chicago 1-1, and play within the final possession of both games.

If we somehow pull this series win out, and Ben averages 25 ppg, it would be public suicide for Bulls management to let him walk....without at least offering him a 10-12mil per year contract....regardless of what it does to our lux tax line.

Public suicide? The majority of people in this Forum are intelligent. There is a drone army out there. I am certain that there will be more Bulls fans agreeing with Reinsdorf's decision to let him go.

Anyone listen to the ESPN 1000 pregame show? A drone sent in a question to Wennington, basically saying "I wouldn't mind seeing Ben go. Kirk can do everything he can, except he plays better defense. Would you re-sign Ben?"

Wennington responded he would re-sing him for the right price. "If Ben wants 70 million, then no, let him go." But Bill wouldn't mind resigning him on the cheap.

He's gone. Frankly, with the way this organization has treated him by offering an inferior player like Luol Deng more money TWICE, he should go, and the vast majority of Bulls fans, aka drones, won't give a damn.

Funny, every single person I talk to about the Bulls likes Gordon more than Hinrich. You've created this drone army that doesn't exist based on a couple random callers into sports radio shows.

 

[dougthonus]

The shot wasn't even a good one Gordon was just hot. He had two guys on him and he would of got that same look.

I disagree. It was a free throw distance jumper that wasn't blocked where he got his normal shooting form. That's in 95% of the time. He shook 2 guys to get that open look which made it look hard, but he went straight up, took his normal shot and didn't have to alter it due to the players on him from about 15 feet out.

Gordon sinks that virtually every time IMO.

 

[dougthonus]

Doug, do you think after BG's game2 performance that Pax will go 'above and beyond' to re-sign him next year?

It's not up to Paxson. It's up to Reinsdorf, and it's important to make that distinction.

 

[Fred]

dougthonus wrote:
Funny, every single person I talk to about the Bulls likes Gordon more than Hinrich. You've created this drone army that doesn't exist based on a couple random callers into sports radio shows.[/quote]

Doug, that's my point. As I said, the people in this forum are intelligent. But I can guarantee you, if you take a poll of the 20,000+ who show up at the United Center, and say, "Hirnich or Gordon for next year's team?", the majority would take Hinrich.

And that's the choice. Reisdorf has created a situation where we can't have both. Hirnich is making 10 million this year. He's 9+ next year. There won't be a free agent in the league, Boozer included, who will get 9+ in this economy. It's Ben or Hinrich. The Bulls will keep Hinrich, Ben will walk, and the majority of Bulls fans won't give a damn. The people on this Forum will, but the drones won't.

 

[DASMACKDOWN]

The loss sucks but I am proud of the guys so far. We will definitely sort out the rebounding thing though. I expect some spirited play at home for 2 games.

 

[charity stripe]

Doug, I don't think its just a few people. I also was listening online to the postgame show, and more than 1 caller called up and said it would not be a bad idea to let Gordon go because he is just a one trick pony. All he can do is shoot. And I hear this pretty often.

 

[??? ??????]

I hope this game sealed the deal that the Bulls would pay Ben Gordon. He put up arguably the best individual performance since Michael Jordan in Game 6 of the 98 Finals. And it's arguably, only because the number one pick, Derrick Rose, put up an equally impressive game the night before.

We just saw the two greatest Bulls playoff performances since Jordan in back to back games. Most franchises would get excited about this being a sign of things to come. But I can easily see the Bulls offering Gordon some low offer, like $42-48 million over 6 years, and telling Ben, "Don't look at that $35 million in profit we made last year, and the $500 million we made in the 10 years before that. We really don't have any money to sign you!"