Week 8 Thoughts and Observations

botfly10

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You

After talking myself down after the game.

I realized that the defense will fool you, or hold up, based on coaching and effort.

But when the chips are on the table and it requires talent to make the big play or stop the final drive, they just don't have it. I can hate McManis, but he just doesn't have it. I can hate Rolle, but again he doesn't have it anymore.

Effort and coaching are nothing to scoff at, just need Pace to add some talent.

Yup. By the way, when I said "fool you" I was referring to fans being fooled into thinking they are good. They will have games this year where they put on a fairly impressive performance based just on coaching, effort, and discipline. But like you said, that only gets you so far and at the end of the day, they just aren't really that good talent wise.
 

WindyCity

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I like what Bot said about incomplete players.

The Bears only really have 1 compete player on defense in McPhee.

Almost everyone else seems to be missing something, Acho can't rush the passer, Fuller struggles man to man, Jenkins is inconsistent, Jones struggles when you run at him.

It really is a testament to Fangio that this defense even looks competent at times.
 

mecha

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I like what Bot said about incomplete players.

The Bears only really have 1 compete player on defense in McPhee.

Almost everyone else seems to be missing something, Acho can't rush the passer, Fuller struggles man to man, Jenkins is inconsistent, Jones struggles when you run at him.

It really is a testament to Fangio that this defense even looks competent at times.

yeah, enjoy Fangio while you can. I heard from some people that he might get a head coaching gig after piloting the 25th ranked defense or whatever they are now.
 

Chicago4Life

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yeah, enjoy Fangio while you can. I heard from some people that he might get a head coaching gig after piloting the 25th ranked defense or whatever they are now.

so far the teams that will likely be looking for new HC's
Lions
Titans
Dolphins

Fangio could fit the Titans but I think they will want a more offensive minded coach to further help develop mariota...gase could be a fit
Neither the dolphins or lions will run 3-4 defenses and I don't think Fangio will over see a 4-3.
Also think the texans, colts, redskins and browns keep their coaches for 1 more season.

Gase leaving is my biggest worry, if he leaves then its almost a certainty that Cutler must be traded or released.
 

Enasic

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If gase is the only coordinator that can make jay look decent...and let's face it, he doesn't look much better than decent, then you don't hesitate to move on. Unfortunately, I'm not sure if the crop of qbs are worthy of a high draft pick. Gonna be curious as to how pace plays this.
 

Desperado34

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I like this statement a lot. Its kind of all you really need to know about the bears this year.

The reality is, that if the bears are going to run an efficient O, they can't ask too much of Cutler. People that are ready to go balls out now that they have seen some decent play from Cutler need to settle the **** down. They need to accept what Cutler is and what he is capable of.

In other words, Cutler is never going to carry the team. Its not going to happen, and at this point, its not fair to even ask it of him.

That brings us back to the D. The reality is, the bears need a strong D to pair with this O in order to have sustained success. And so back to the best point in windy's post, imo:



The D is well coached enough and disciplined enough that they are going to fool some people every now and then. But they just aren't that good. Most of the guys have incomplete skill sets. Take a guy like Acho. Looks like a beast sometimes against the run, at least average in coverage, sucks ass at rushing the qb. That par for the D. Most of the players have a big flaw.

And so it will go this season.

The good news is that the Bears keep these games close for longer than they should. The players fight, play within the scheme, and maintain discipline most of the time. All of which to me is evidence that they are poised for a quick turnaround next year with even a moderate amount of talent influx.

Holy ****. Not carry the team?

Yet Gase puts the ball in Cutlers hands with come from behind drives 2 weeks in a row to win the game, and if it wasn't for the D fucking up against Detroit that would've been 3 in a row.

Does cutler not get credit for that?


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PrideisBears

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Yeah I have to agree somewhat with desp, botfly. Cutler has shown he is capable of carrying the team, you just shouldn't rely on him to do it every game. This year he has done well so far especially with his comebacks
 

WindyCity

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Follow Up Observations

-I have tempered my expectations for Charles Leno as I did not want to get ahead of myself, but I felt he played another strong game. There were a couple of reps [I saw 3] where Everson Griffin beat him on and outside rush and forced Jay to step up. Griffin never really got a hand on Jay, but the rush effected the play. What I like about Leno is that he does not give up the inside, a cardinal sin for an OT, he showed good recovery when the rush got him off balance, and finally he use his long arms really well. I thought his run blocking was improved from the Lions game. Leno at this point is playing, not because he is young and they want to see what he has, but because he is a better pass protector than Bushrod.

-Patrick Omaneh is better than Vlad Ducasse, but neither is any good.

-It would be huge if Charles Leno could lock down the LT spot, not only because if represents a serious stealing of value, but because Kyle Long still has enough technique breakdowns at RT that I would worry about making another position change quickly. The most difficult change to make on the OL is not from OT to OG, it is from right to left.

-I am not sure what Eddie Royal does for this team. He doesn't block all that well, he is not making anyone miss on screens or in the open field, and he is constantly injured.

-Jeremy Langford has good feet and vision inside, he routinely took 3 yards worth of blocking and got a hard 5 yards. Would like to see what he can do with some open field and a crease, but right now he is looking like a guy who is just trying to ensure a positive play, which is okay.

-Marques Wilson got wide open because of play design and a nice cut, but then slowed down out of his break leading to an easy TD that was an over throw. There are still some rough edges in his route running. I would assume with Kevin White that the throw in question would not have been an overthrow.


-I have been critical of the pass rush, but there were 3-4 plays in the 1st half where Jarvis Jenkins got a disruptive rush or forced a throw. His inability to close on an escaping Teddy Bridgewater late in the game was painful though.

-Eddie Goldman is a monster. He plays low, with good hand extension and control. The issue is that he does the same thing on passing downs. He engages the OLmen and then struggles to get off. Goldman does not need to engage on passing downs, he has success when he attacks the gap and does not go chest to chest. You see a couple of rushes a game where he just blows into the A gap and OLmen are not strong enough to handle him when they cannot square him up.

-Mitch Unrien was dominated in the run game. Routinely pancaked and blown back.

-Will Sutton is active and hard to move at times, but no overly consistent in what he is doing. He flashes at times because of effort, but I think he struggles when playing DE against the longer OTs. At his reps at NT I thought he looked much better. I am not disappointed in Sutton, but I am not impressed so far.

-Tough to evaluate the DL in this game because all of them played way more reps than they should. Wondering why they couldn't close on Bridgewater late? They were exhausted as only 4 DLmen played.

-Reynolds and Anderson didn't really do anything to impress. Neither was decisive against the run spending most of the time getting caught in the wash.

-Adam Jahns told us in the Twitter question session that the Bears were happy with Christian Jones, but I continue to see a player that struggles with inside runs. In space Jones has it, in coverage he looks good, but in the inside run game he stands at 5 yards and waits for the blockers to come to him. There is no attack, shooting of gaps, or physicality against the blockers. Jones looks like a coverage LB at this point.

-Confirmed: Sam Acho cannot rush the passer.

-At this point the Bears should release Lamarr Houston and sign an OLB off of a practice squad. At least a young guy with some speed could give you the occasional rush.

-Kyle Fuller played well.

-Adrian Amos had a couple of really nice run stops, which continues to impress me considering the biggest knocks on him were his physicality and tackling.

-This is your weekly Sherick McManis is terrible. That was the worst series of 8-10 plays I have ever seen.

-​Bryce Callahan looked okay. Tough to see everything, but he was in position to contest throws and make tackles. He also looked like a willing tackler, which is key in a slot CB.

-I get that the special teams has limited talent. Bad team will have a really bad bottom of the roster, but at some point it has to come to coaching. The fact that they seem routinely fooled and there are so many technique breakdowns has to come home to roost on a coach at some point. There are lots of special teams coordinators in the league with sub par talent, who do not allow 30% of the leagues kick return TDs.
 

WindyCity

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Cutler has shown consistent solid QB play.

You can win with that, if you have a good defense and special teams that are not a routine embarrassment.

Put this Cutler on the Vikings and they are a wildcard and probably a serious threat to the Packers.
 

RacerX

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Will Sutton is active and hard to move at times, but no overly consistent in what he is doing. He flashes at times because of effort, but I think he struggles when playing DE against the longer OTs. At his reps at NT I thought he looked much better. I am not disappointed in Sutton, but I am not impressed so far.
QUOTE]


As I stated when we drafted him, Sutton will never amount to more than a situational/backup DL. I watched him get absolutely dominated by David Yankey (Stanford) when they matched up 1:1. Not saying he built his impressive stats by bum-slaying, but let's just say he was unimpressive when matched up against a legit NFL OL prospect.
 

Bearly

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It's so much more enjoyable to watch a team that's well coached, regardless of the talent level. Watching Tucker's Ds and how the league caught up to our last year O while we abandoned a balanced attack was so disheartening.
 

WindyCity

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It's so much more enjoyable to watch a team that's well coached, regardless of the talent level. Watching Tucker's Ds and how the league caught up to our last year O while we abandoned a balanced attack was so disheartening.

Agreed.

In fact that best thing for this team right now might be competitive loses. The games are watchable and the draft picks stay good.

Last year was unwatchable and bad, which made Sunday painful.
 

didshereallysaythat

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Cutler has shown consistent solid QB play.

You can win with that, if you have a good defense and special teams that are not a routine embarrassment.

Put this Cutler on the Vikings and they are a wildcard and probably a serious threat to the Packers.

So you agree that Cutler is better than Bridgewater right? I am assuming you don't think the Vikings will win the division.
 

botfly10

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A successful drive in the 4th quarter is not carrying the team.

Fulfilling the most basic requirements of competent QB play is not carrying the team.

The inability to compensate for a crappy D is the exact opposite of carrying a team.

If Cutler was capable of carrying the team, they would have won each of those close games. As it is now, people are doing cartwheels because he has been consistent, conservative, and turnovers are down. But that is not carrying the team.

People do not get this excited about basic consistency with a QB that is capable of carrying a team.

What Aaron Rodgers or Peyton Manning does is carrying a team. You guys are being ridiculous.
 
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PrideisBears

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A successful drive in the 4th quarter is not carrying the team.

Fulfilling the most basic requirements of competent QB play is not carrying the team.

The inability to compensate for a crappy D is the exact opposite of carrying a team.

If Cutler was capable of carrying the team, they would have won each of those close games. As it is now, people are doing cartwheels because he has been consistent, conservative, and turnovers are down. But that is not carrying the team.

People do not get this excited about basic consistency with a QB that is capable of carrying a team.

What Aaron Rodgers or Peyton Manning does is carrying a team. You guys are being ridiculous.

I don't think that is fair and I hope you are talking about Manning from the past because if you aren't then you your post wouldn't make sense.


I find it hard to blame a QB if his defense gives up a fg and he has no time left to a do a drive. If a QB is willing a team regardless of who he is throwing to and how his line is to me carrying that team
 

botfly10

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Carry the team. That was the point in question.

And you're right. Asking a QB to carry a team is not fair. But that wasn't the question.

Good try though.

You can spot a QB that is capable of carrying a team when fans aren't talking about late field goals or the D giving up a late TD drive because the QB would have managed to overcome those things in the process of carrying the team.

Think about it. Where exactly is the QB carrying the team to? What is it you think we are talking about? That fact that you even bring up a missed field goal demonstrates that Cutler is not capable of carrying the team.
 
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botfly10

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In before post about how Fox and Gase (the coaches who have Cutler playing his best ball since 2011) are actually holding cutler back from carrying the team...
 

PrideisBears

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Carry the team. That was the point in question.

And you're right. Asking a QB to carry a team is not fair. But that wasn't the question.

Good try though.

You can spot a QB that is capable of carrying a team when fans aren't talking about missed field goals or the D giving up a late TD drive because the QB would have managed to overcome those things in the process of carrying the team.

Think about it. Where exactly is the QB carrying the team to? What is it you think we are talking about?

I'm talking about carrying a team to victory during a game. If you are talking about just carrying a really shit team with not much talent to the playoffs then there is Rodgers, Brady and Brees and that is right now imo
 

botfly10

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I'm talking about carrying a team to victory during a game. If you are talking about just carrying a really shit team with not much talent to the playoffs then there is Rodgers, Brady and Brees and that is right now imo

lol
 

PrideisBears

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In before post about how Fox and Gase (the coaches who have Cutler playing his best ball since 2011) are actually holding cutler back from carrying the team...

Who is saying this? ( and if you are talking about that one poster give it a rest already.)
 

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