What a crazy season: A star is born

[mlewinth]

Ok, I got to admit, I never saw this comming! A week ago yesterday, I was in Chicago and refused to go to my only Bulls game in Chicago all year, becuase I was so frustrated with the season and Bulls managment. 1 week later, I am giddy...downright giddy. Did anyone see this comming!?!?! I mean what a crazy season! Did Derrick Rose not choose the exact lowest minute possible to breakout? We had a nice grove going with wins against the Knicks and Hawks, then we are up 35 to the Kings and loose and then never compete the following night against the Knicks. We looked lost. I called for Vinny's head. We could of lost every game after that for the season and I would of accepted it and felt no worse then I did at that minute. At that minute, after that Knicks loss, I thought the season was over. We were garbage.

2 weeks later, Derrick Rose is an animal. I said it before the season, "this team will go as far as Derrick Rose takes us". 2 weeks ago, he was taking us to the NBA Lottery, now though, he is going to help us make a pretty damn compelling case for a top tier free agent. Make no mistake friends, this is not a fluke. Prior to the Indiana game, Derrick got to the line more then 7 times TWICE the entire month of December. Prior to December!?!? Derrick Rose got to the line more than 7 times ONCE. Derrick Rose has gotten to the line 8 times in both the Indiana and Detroit game and topped that off by getting to the line 10 times yesterday. It takes some stars awhile to get this whole "Getting to the line thing". The players in this leauge who score alot of points get to the line...bottom line. Stars in this leauge, the Kobe's, the Wades, all avg. more than 7 Free throw attempts a game. They do that because they are aggressive. They avg 25+ pts a night because they are aggressive. Rose is entering that territory.

Derrick Rose changed after that Sacramento loss. You can see it in his demenor. You can see it in his face on the court. You hear it in his postgame comments:

- "I'm just trying to attack and do anything to get my team a win," Rose said. "They were giving me mid-range shots. I'll take those any time."

- "Don't count us out," Rose said. "We can compete with the best teams in the NBA. And we're not stopping here. We've found our groove and we're going to keep going."

This team is going as far as Derrick Rose takes us. He just realized it. He isint a rookie anymore. He is on the verge on NBA superstardom. We as Bulls fans are about to have the priviledge of witnessing this. WITNESS... It's not to late for us to have two all-stars THIS year. Tell me if anything else would be a better invitation for a top tier Free Agent. You are witnessing the birth of the next player, who will have his name hanging from our rafters.

I just popped wood.......

 

[TheStig]

Its nice to see his attitude change. I think thats all that was missing. The injury also really made him mediocre but its amazing to see his one man fast breaks where he blasts down the court before anyone really realizes.

 

[gold4you]

Mlewinth, I got wood too. Rose is Moses with a basketball. He has finally realized he's faster than everyone else, and stronger too. And let us say, AMEN!

 

[Shakes]

The interesting thing to me is that he started taking a lot more shots before he started getting to the line. It's like he's gradually realising that he's got to be a scorer to make the most out of who he is.

 

[clonetrooper264]

I think he gets it now. He keeps this up and he's an All-Star this year. He keeps this up and we're in the playoffs. He keeps this up and 2010 doesn't seem like such a pipe dream. Keep it up DRose...we need you to.

 

[??? ??????]

It's hard to say that a star has been born when Rose is still below 50 TS% for the season, but like others have said, it looks like Rose has finally gotten it. He is attacking the defense with his drive, he is confident in the midrange shots he takes, and he has very much become a one man fastbreak, ala Rajon Rondo. In addition, he's no longer a defensive liability, which has helped a lot.

But I think the fact remains, for Rose to become a superstar, he will need to gain a respectable three point shot in order to score the ball efficiently.

 

[clonetrooper264]

??? ?????? wrote:

It's hard to say that a star has been born when Rose is still below 50 TS% for the season, but like others have said, it looks like Rose has finally gotten it. He is attacking the defense with his drive, he is confident in the midrange shots he takes, and he has very much become a one man fastbreak, ala Rajon Rondo. In addition, he's no longer a defensive liability, which has helped a lot.

But I think the fact remains, for Rose to become a superstar, he will need to gain a respectable three point shot in order to score the ball efficiently.

Well he's halfway there with his increased aggressiveness in attacking the basket leading to FTAs. If he can get to the line near 10 times a game, he may only need a DWade type 3 pt shot. Oh yeah, and make shots when it counts, that's important too (though I guess not necessary).

 

[??? ??????]

clonetrooper264 wrote:

??? ?????? wrote:

It's hard to say that a star has been born when Rose is still below 50 TS% for the season, but like others have said, it looks like Rose has finally gotten it. He is attacking the defense with his drive, he is confident in the midrange shots he takes, and he has very much become a one man fastbreak, ala Rajon Rondo. In addition, he's no longer a defensive liability, which has helped a lot.

But I think the fact remains, for Rose to become a superstar, he will need to gain a respectable three point shot in order to score the ball efficiently.

Well he's halfway there with his increased aggressiveness in attacking the basket leading to FTAs. If he can get to the line near 10 times a game, he may only need a DWade type 3 pt shot. Oh yeah, and make shots when it counts, that's important too (though I guess not necessary).

Wade's been really mediocre this year in his efficiency, largely because of his inability to hit the three point shot at a higher percentage.

Wade's 27.5 3PT% isn't desireable. That's 41.3 TS% on three point shots.

I think you want Rose hitting somewhere around 53 TS% on threes at a minimum, which would be 35.3% from three. Being able to stroke the three like Lebron would be a good goal for Rose to reach imo.

 

[clonetrooper264]

??? ?????? wrote:

clonetrooper264 wrote:

??? ?????? wrote:

It's hard to say that a star has been born when Rose is still below 50 TS% for the season, but like others have said, it looks like Rose has finally gotten it. He is attacking the defense with his drive, he is confident in the midrange shots he takes, and he has very much become a one man fastbreak, ala Rajon Rondo. In addition, he's no longer a defensive liability, which has helped a lot.

But I think the fact remains, for Rose to become a superstar, he will need to gain a respectable three point shot in order to score the ball efficiently.

Well he's halfway there with his increased aggressiveness in attacking the basket leading to FTAs. If he can get to the line near 10 times a game, he may only need a DWade type 3 pt shot. Oh yeah, and make shots when it counts, that's important too (though I guess not necessary).

Wade's been really mediocre this year in his efficiency, largely because of his inability to hit the three point shot at a higher percentage.

Wade's 27.5 3PT% isn't desireable. That's 41.3 TS% on three point shots.

I think you want Rose hitting somewhere around 53 TS% on threes at a minimum, which would be 35.3% from three. Being able to stroke the three like Lebron would be a good goal for Rose to reach imo.

The point is that Rose may not need to be super accurate from 3 to be a superstar. Of course, you want Rose to be more accurate than Wade is, but if he gets to the line 10 times per game, it sort of offsets that. Obviously, 35+% is desirable in terms of efficiency, but not completely necessary for superstar status.

 

[Shakes]

I don't know if Rose has to be the one shooting threes. Someone has to shoot them to lift the team out of last in the league in attempts, but I think Rose driving and leaving someone else open is likely to be a better play.

 

[TheStig]

I agree with Po3. This team isn't going to have Rose as the only focal point forever. If we get a 2010 fa, rose will have to play off the ball at times and need to hit threes, especially if we get a guy like wade or bron.

 

[Shakes]

I just see him ever becoming a good three point shooter as too unlikely to care about. The guys people talk about being bad then becoming good usually either weren't as bad as Rose is right now, or didn't become good enough that they should be shooting a lot of threes.

Of course we'd all like it to happen, but you can't work on everything, so is it really worthwhile putting a load of time into a skill that's probably never going to be NBA quality? Also once you start telling star players they should shoot threes it tends to be a hard genie to put back in the bottle even if it's badly hurting their efficiency (Gary Payton's 3.5k attempts at sub 32% come to mind ...)

 

[cool007]

Yes, Rose is Blooming right in front of our eyes.

Ever since that Lakers game in November when he said, he needs to be more aggressive. He has been averaging over 20ppg 4rpg 6apg.

I had never any doubt that he could score 20 a game this season but I was hoping that he would be more aggressive doing it and atleast do 1 of the following this year (either go to free throw line a lot more or have a 3pt shot). Since the start of the season, I haven't seen him attempt 3s regularly so I was disappointed but I was hoping that he would go to the line more.

Rose said the other night, that it is ridiculous that he doesn't go to the line more and he said "There is no way I should not be going to the free throw line" and guess what, ever since he has been averaging 9 FTA per game.

He is a SMART guy and the best thing is that he knows what he is NOT doing right or what he needs to do to be a star in this league and he is slowly correcting it.

To me, whether what happens with the Bulls record - it will be a HUGE success if Rose can up his average to 20ppg + get to the free throw line more AND be known as a superstar in the making in the NBA and has a great rep. That will be HUGE success.

Meaning those big free agents will be feeling good to come over to Chitown as they will have their Robin already there and a PG who can get them the ball, who is unselfish.

FWIW: Rose's average last 7 games:

25ppg
4rpg
6.1apg

21PER
54% TS%

 

[TheStig]

Shakes wrote:

I just see him ever becoming a good three point shooter as too unlikely to care about. The guys people talk about being bad then becoming good usually either weren't as bad as Rose is right now, or didn't become good enough that they should be shooting a lot of threes.

Of course we'd all like it to happen, but you can't work on everything, so is it really worthwhile putting a load of time into a skill that's probably never going to be NBA quality? Also once you start telling star players they should shoot threes it tends to be a hard genie to put back in the bottle even if it's badly hurting their efficiency (Gary Payton's 3.5k attempts at sub 32% come to mind ...)

I am not saying I want him popping threes like Bron but I do want him able to be respectable at hitting open stationary threes. He will eventually have to play off the ball and having him and Deng spotting up two steps in front of the three point line is horrible for spacing. Presuming we have Noah at center and sign Wade or Bosh like we are targeting, where does the 3pt shooting come from? Where is the spacing? Thats my primary concern in this, not Rose jacking up threes.

 

[Shakes]

Presumably if that happened we'd have to dump Deng (or play him at PF) then sign & start a three point specialist at SG/SF (depending on which of Wade or Bron we got). You can get those sort of guys cheap if all you care about is three point shooting, which I'd settle for until 2011 when we'd have the MLE available to get someone slightly better. Between a MLE guy (think James Posey in Miami sort of role, to pick a guy who played with Wade) and presumably Kirk or someone still playing off the bench there should be enough three point shooting to keep teams honest.

Obviously three point shooting is important, I just don't think that saying it's important does anything to make Rose become any better. We can either pray he improves, or try to build a team around the limitation.

 

[clonetrooper264]

Well if Rose can't really become the 3pt shooter we want him to be, what can happen is that he becomes pretty much Luol Deng with his midrange shot, then becomes Bruce Bowen with the corner 3. If Rose can hit the corner 3 with any amount of decency, it will at least keep his defender honest and open up his driving game more. Plus if we just sign a 3pt specialist, that will help too. Playing off the ball will also help him with that.

 

[TheStig]

Shakes wrote:

Presumably if that happened we'd have to dump Deng (or play him at PF) then sign & start a three point specialist at SG/SF (depending on which of Wade or Bron we got). You can get those sort of guys cheap if all you care about is three point shooting, which I'd settle for until 2011 when we'd have the MLE available to get someone slightly better. Between a MLE guy (think James Posey in Miami sort of role, to pick a guy who played with Wade) and presumably Kirk or someone still playing off the bench there should be enough three point shooting to keep teams honest.

Obviously three point shooting is important, I just don't think that saying it's important does anything to make Rose become any better. We can either pray he improves, or try to build a team around the limitation.

If dumping Deng was so easy, it would be done already. Dumping Deng won't become an option for at least a couple more years and playing him at pf won't do him any favors. Furtermore, after we sign a max deal and pay Noah with Rose getting a big extension the next year, there will be no mle players, we don't pay the LT. What you see is what you get unless you find a way to dump kirk for cheap. I also don't see why Rose can't be servicible with open threes. There are very few successful pgs that can't hit an open three consistently.

 

[Shakes]

TheStig wrote:

there will be no mle players, we don't pay the LT.

JR has always said he'd pay the tax for a winner. I don't think there's any proof one way or the other yet, because we haven't had a team with that sort of potential. If we had LeBron and he wouldn't pay for a MLE level SG, I'd be pissed off though.

As for Deng, I absolutely believe we can trade him this year or next if he keeps up this level of play. Maybe not in a pure dump, but if we can get someone that's a better fit, even if the contract is just as long, that's still a win.

 

[TheStig]

Shakes wrote:

TheStig wrote:

there will be no mle players, we don't pay the LT.

JR has always said he'd pay the tax for a winner. I don't think there's any proof one way or the other yet, because we haven't had a team with that sort of potential. If we had LeBron and he wouldn't pay for a MLE level SG, I'd be pissed off though.

As for Deng, I absolutely believe we can trade him this year or next if he keeps up this level of play. Maybe not in a pure dump, but if we can get someone that's a better fit, even if the contract is just as long, that's still a win.

Sorry, I don't share the faith that we will get Bron and I don't think anyone else will make us good enough for JR's definition of a winner. Its also even more disturbing that no one knows what that definition is. The only time he was willing to pay for a winner was when we had already won 4 rings.

I don't see it unless we take on a much worse player. I don't even know of anyone with that would be obtainable with a similar contract, let alone a better fit. If we could do it, it should be done soon as Deng's value will never be higher.

 

[Shakes]

I don't think we'll get LeBron, it was just an example. I think the most likely thing is we'll get nobody, Rose will have to be the star, the best way for Rose to play is to be a scoring PG, and so whether he can play off the ball will be moot.

We can argue about what a winner is, nobody really knows, you can say he's only paid for a winner after he had one, you can also say he's paid for a winner every time he has to. There's too little evidence to really know for sure what would happen, I'm just saying lets not write off using the MLE when looking at what could be done to improve the team.

I don't know about Deng, I personally don't see the logic in keeping Deng, but I didn't see the logic in giving him the contract to start with, so clearly something is going on that I don't understand. One thing that comes to mind is about Kobe wanting Deng to stay or else he wasn't interested in the Bulls. Maybe they're holding onto Deng for now because they think he makes the team more attractive to FAs?