What About Adam LaRoche?

[waldo7239117]

He's still a D'back, but he has a mutual option worth 7.5M and the D'backs could decline it. They were scouting Paulie as the season cam to an end. They have been shopping him over all of last year and if the D'backs did pick up the MO, he won't cost that much. Maybe Baker and Berg, Atkins, Wells, etc.

He's a left haned bat, plays 1st, won't cost too much in money if they signed him or traded for him, plays OK defense and has power. But, he does not hit for a good average and K's a lot and does not walk much.

He will come cheaper than Dunn, will hit more hr at Wrigley and would be a good 3-5 hitter in the lineup. This move also would allow the Cubs to sign more in FA, than for example a Dunn signing.

He hit 25 hr (in Arz) and hit 100rbi for a bad arz team. I thimk thise stats will go up. Also, he's only 31. Not too old.

Adam LaRoche.

Thoughts? I'm just bored so I decided to throw an idea. I don't think this would be the worse decision for next season, I think he will be better than nady.

 

[poodski]

Well, I would like to see a little better OBP, but he definitely has the pop, and is left handed which I like a lot. I wouldn't mind him as a decent second option if we don't get Dunn or Pena.

This is also assuming he is even available. If we could get something like a .340/.480 out of him I wouldn't mind him at 7 or so per.

 

[DewsSox79]

much better option financially than dunn for sure.

 

[poodski]

much better option financially than dunn for sure.

Yeah I would think. Probably shorter years, with plus defense too.

To be honest he might be the better option. Might be a little worse, but honestly a safer bet. I trust LaRoche to be at worst average with the glove.

With Dunn he is at worst -20 runs with the glove. I don't think his glove this year is a mirage, but I am not sure either.

 

[DewsSox79]

Yeah I would think. Probably shorter years, with plus defense too.

To be honest he might be the better option. Might be a little worse, but honestly a safer bet. I trust LaRoche to be at worst average with the glove.

With Dunn he is at worst -20 runs with the glove. I don't think his glove this year is a mirage, but I am not sure either.

for cub fans that want to win a title, they have to start playing the FA market and trade market smarter. it is nice and exciting to get a star player but that wears off quickly if you are not contending, hence my whitesox and manny ramirez.

laroche should be the guy or someone like him.

 

[Jntg4]

They could probably trade him when Jackson comes up and get decent return... not a horrible idea.

 

[RandallPinkFloyd42]

They'll probably end up with LaRoche. They'll make a few minor moves and be right back in third or fourth next year.

 

[waldo7239117]

So, you guys think this was thread could not be a bad idea for the Cubs? And, this is a better thread idea than I have had before?

 

[Jntg4]

You never have had a really good idea that was ALSO unflawless, but this is a decent idea and I don't see anything preventing it or being wrong with it. Nice job waldo.

 

[USCChiFan]

It's not a bad idea, but LaRoche isn't that great either. His K% went up by 5 this season and his BB% went down by 3.2. Either those numbers are because of the Diamondbacks lineup or playing at Chase Field, or he's trying to swing for the fences too much

 

[cubsneedmiracle]

Good idea waldo!

 

[waldo7239117]

I ask the question in Bruce Levine's chat and he said LaRoche is one of five 1st baseman the Cubs are keeping their eye on.

 

[Lefty]

Yeah I would think. Probably shorter years, with plus defense too.

To be honest he might be the better option. Might be a little worse, but honestly a safer bet. I trust LaRoche to be at worst average with the glove.

With Dunn he is at worst -20 runs with the glove. I don't think his glove this year is a mirage, but I am not sure either.

Come on. LaRoche is much, much worse than Adam Dunn. Period.

Adam LaRoche average WAR per season: 1.09
Adam Dunn average WAR per season: 2.71

And that's including the suspect UZR numbers (UZR is questionable because it is based off of a sliding average that only applies for one year, resulting in wildly fluctuating numbers that would lead people to believe performance in UZR is largely based on luck rather than skill).

I'm not saying Adam Dunn is in actuality a plus defender, but to in any way say or imply that LaRoche's defense somehow makes up for his supreme inferiority in the offense department is just ludicrous. Even including the suspect defensive numbers shows Dunn to be a substantially better player.

And waldo, since 2005 Chase Field (D'Backs' home ballpark) has graded out roughly the same as Wrigley as far as HR inflation goes.

Wrigley HR Park Factor (since 2005): 1.119
Chase HR Park Factor (since 2005): 1.113

Increasing LaRoache's HR output by .6% isn't going to yield any more trips around the bases due to the ballpark, sorry.

 

[USCChiFan]

W/ Castro and Aramis always throwing low to 1st, there's no way Dunn could survive as the Cubs 1st baseman. He'd never be able to scoop all those throws from them, which is why the Cubs need a good defensive 1st baseman who can hit

 

[Lefty]

W/ Castro and Aramis always throwing low to 1st, there's no way Dunn could survive as the Cubs 1st baseman. He'd never be able to scoop all those throws from them, which is why the Cubs need a good defensive 1st baseman who can hit

I would think that getting Aramis and Castro to make better throws to first so the team can have Dunn play there is a much, much better option than settling for Adam LaRoche, who, going by those numbers people love to rip on Dunn for, isn't even some magic-worker with the glove, he's just about average. Settling for the average glove and relatively impotent bat of LaRoche simply because Aramis and Castro can't throw the ball accurately would be bad GMing.

 

[Captain Obvious]

W/ Castro and Aramis always throwing low to 1st, there's no way Dunn could survive as the Cubs 1st baseman. He'd never be able to scoop all those throws from them, which is why the Cubs need a good defensive 1st baseman who can hit

Dunn will more than out hit his average defense at first, anyway.

 

[poodski]

Come on. LaRoche is much, much worse than Adam Dunn. Period.

Adam LaRoche average WAR per season: 1.09
Adam Dunn average WAR per season: 2.71

Ummm? Who cares about what a player did 6 and 7 years ago? I don't. LaRoche had some growing pains that's pretty obvious but the fact that he didn't just come into the league hitting well really shouldn't matter at all. I also don't care what Dunn did early in his career.

I only care about the last 4 years. Even 4 years might be a bit out there.

Those four years LaRoches average WAR is 2.225 and Dunn's is 2.325. So no LaRoche is not "much worse" than Dunn. Going by WAR they are very similar, but thats Dunn as an OF for most of that time instead of a 1B, so that probably increases him up by oneish WAR.

So Dunn is probably worth a win or so more than LaRoche. Is that worth double the money and double the years?

And that's including the suspect UZR numbers (UZR is questionable because it is based off of a sliding average that only applies for one year, resulting in wildly fluctuating numbers that would lead people to believe performance in UZR is largely based on luck rather than skill).

Well this is a discussion for a whole different thread to be honest, but I have never gotten why people have a problem with this. It should be done this way. Who cares how good a fielder was compared to 2009's averages? Are we in 2009 anymore? If a player is better or worse than his 2010 counterparts than thats really all that matters. That's where you are going to see your wins and losses. Not compared to 2009, or a three year average.

Now you can argue it doesn't show a "true" talent, and it would be nice if there was a UZR primer that showed how different the fluoridation is from year to year, but in terms of WAR we shouldn't care about that at all.

I'm not saying Adam Dunn is in actuality a plus defender, but to in any way say or imply that LaRoche's defense somehow makes up for his supreme inferiority in the offense department is just ludicrous. Even including the suspect defensive numbers shows Dunn to be a substantially better player.

LaRoche is probably a good 5 to 10 runs better than Dunn with the glove, and if we are to compare their wOBA's we can figure out their bats as well.

Dunn is around a .385 wOBA guy, and LaRoche a .350. So over 700 PA the difference would be 21.3 runs in favor of Dunn. So again we are at the 1-ish WAR range. Perhaps a little more, but still not like its Pujols vs Mike Jacobs.

LaRoche isnt a bad cheap option. Though getting LaRoche says to the fans we aren't trying in 2011. Dunn sends the message we are going for it in 2011. So there is that as well. I would prefer Dunn, but I would be very happy with LaRoche.

 

[Jntg4]

Ya, LaRoche isn't much worse than Dunn overall.