What could we get in return for Butler?

[czman]

@knoxville7

Last season SGs guarded by Butler had a 14.6 PER.
Last season SGs guarded by Harden had a 13.6 PER.

Last season SGs guarded by Butler averaged 21.4 points per 48 minutes.
Last season SGs guarded by Harden averaged 20.9 points per 48 minutes.

Harden is NOT a better defender than Butler. Butler is not as good a defender as people think he is. He gambles and misses a lot. His off the ball defense and help defense are not great because he plays the passing lanes too aggressively. Butler is a very good defender. Harden is not a bad defender. They are closer than you give them credit for. Most likely because you overvalue on the ball defense and don't understand team defense.

 

[knoxville7]

Let's say he is the 15th best player in the league, what does that really mean. Let's just use this as an example.

4 elite players in the league.
7 closet to elite players.
10-20 players in the next group.

Does it really matter if he is the best of that third group? I am not going to argue if Butler is better than DeRozan, McCollum, Batum. The granular difference is too small to make a difference. Butler is a good player who has a lot of intangibles going for him. The problem is shooting is the most important thing in the NBA right now and Butler is not a good shooter for his position.

I guess i just see it like this. Butler is not good enough to get the Bulls to the next level as the best player. If you trade him out with DeRozan you about the same team and lose at about the same place in the playoffs. People forget that Butler is 26. He is about as developed as he is going to get. He is probably going to start his decline in the next ~3 years.

I like Butler a lot and I am glad he is on the Bulls. He is just a difference maker when you talk about winning a ring. He is a weak 2nd or really good 3rd piece to a championship team.

FG% for all those guys that have been mentioned....

klay Thompson 47%
jimmy butler 45%
demar derozan 45%
CJ McCollum 44%
Andrew wiggins 43%
james harden 42%
Nicolas batum 42%

so it looks like his shooting isn't much of a problem to me considering only klay is shooting at a higher % than jimmy on the season. also if you want to compare offense per 100 possessions, jimmy is tied for first amongst that group with klay Thompson with a 114 rating. throw in the fact jimmy is the best defensive player of that group and id say its very fair to say jimmy is at least a top 2 shooting guard in the league today :shrug:

 

[knoxville7]

@knoxville7

Last season SGs guarded by Butler had a 14.6 PER.
Last season SGs guarded by Harden had a 13.6 PER.

Last season SGs guarded by Butler averaged 21.4 points per 48 minutes.
Last season SGs guarded by Harden averaged 20.9 points per 48 minutes.

Harden is NOT a better defender than Butler. Butler is not as good a defender as people think he is. He gambles and misses a lot. His off the ball defense and help defense are not great because he plays the passing lanes too aggressively. Butler is a very good defender. Harden is not a bad defender. They are closer than you give them credit for. Most likely because you overvalue on the ball defense and don't understand team defense.

if youre arguing that harden is nearly as good of a defender as butler then you clearly just don't understand basketball at all. I posted a couple videos showing how horrible hardens defense is(I doubt you will watch them), good luck finding any videos showing jimmy getting abused like that or showing the complete lack of effort and total disregard for defense

 

[czman]

if youre arguing that harden is nearly as good of a defender as butler then you clearly just don't understand basketball at all. I posted a couple videos showing how horrible hardens defense is(I doubt you will watch them), good luck finding any videos showing jimmy getting abused like that or showing the complete lack of effort and total disregard for defense

I honestly don't have enough respect for you to continue. If you think Butler is the best SG in the league go ahead. If you think he is a better than Harden I don't care. If you think he is the best wing defender or a top 5 player (not things you said) or whatever you think, please keep thinking it.

 

[Raskolnikov]

Butler is a top 25 player. So is Gasol. We don't need Rose to be MVP level. But we need him back in top 25 all star level to have a trio and see how far we can ride it with our deep and versatile bench.

 

[Benchmob757]

Butler is a top 25 player. So is Gasol. We don't need Rose to be MVP level. But we need him back in top 25 all star level to have a trio and see how far we can ride it with our deep and versatile bench.

I wouldn't say Gasol is top 25. I'd also say that Rose needs to be MVP level. Look at the teams that win championships (spurs are an outlier, but they do have Parker and Aldridge who are better than just about all our players and coaches by Pop), Warriors have a Curry, their second best player would compete for best player on our team. Cavs have Lebron, their second best player would be the best player on our team, their third best player would compete for best player on our team. Unless Popovich comes to coach us, Rose needs to be MVP level, we can't overvalue Butler and Gasol like that.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[knoxville7]

I honestly don't have enough respect for you to continue. If you think Butler is the best SG in the league go ahead. If you think he is a better than Harden I don't care. If you think he is the best wing defender or a top 5 player (not things you said) or whatever you think, please keep thinking it.

exactly....this is your best response to the facts is to make up things I said. kinda pathetic but go ahead dude

 

[Diddy1122]

if youre arguing that harden is nearly as good of a defender as butler then you clearly just don't understand basketball at all. I posted a couple videos showing how horrible hardens defense is(I doubt you will watch them), good luck finding any videos showing jimmy getting abused like that or showing the complete lack of effort and total disregard for defense

But stats don't lie duuuuude...

Seriously though, even a blind man could see how bad he is on the opposite end of the floor.

 

[blank5]

If klay thompson could net the #1 pick, then butler should have similar value