Where do you stand on the 'Tax Cut' issue

[Kerfuffle]

As everyone here has no doubt heard many times now, the tax cuts expired on 1/1/11 back to the previous higher levels. If Congress does nothing they go up for EVERYONE. The Senate today passed the agreement to keep tax rates at their current levels for another 2 years and for ALL tax brackets. Obviously the sticking point was what to do with the top tier - keep them at 35% or move them back to 39.6%. In addition to this the estate tax limit is another pain point between the parties. The House, which is still under overwhelming Democrat control is surprisingly bucking the President on this one and wanting to change the package. It is therefore very possible that nothing happens and we all pay more starting in 2 weeks.



So what's your position on this? You can probably guess what mine is - I want the tax cuts made permanent for all Americans. Since the proposal on the table is only an extension for 2 more years I'll take it.

 

[Tater]

Yeah, the two year time frame kind of makes it difficult for a company to make 5 or 10 year long-term plans.

 

[TSD]

I dont really know. I know I dont want my taxes to go up. Both sides say different things. One side says, it only affects the really rich, one side says it affects middle america.



Is there honestly anywhere I can read exactly what the tax cuts do?

 

[Kerfuffle]

I dont really know. I know I dont want my taxes to go up. Both sides say different things. One side says, it only affects the really rich, one side says it affects middle america.



Is there honestly anywhere I can read exactly what the tax cuts do?

The way it worked is basically everyone's taxes rolled back 3% back in 2001. So if you were in the 28% tax bracket you moved to the 25% bracket. The highest tier moved the most from 39.6% to 35%. If nothing is done, you would go back to 28% on 1/1. That part is not in dispute. It's what to do with the top tier. The Dems want to keep everyone at current rates and change the top tier back to 39.6% - this is for anyone making more than 250K per year. The good/bad is how you want to view it. Keep the top tier at 35% means Warren Buffet, Paris Hilton, and Bill Gates get a tax break they don't need and for that I see the Dems point. On the other hand, what about the couple down the street from you in a modest house making $250k or the couple making $300k with their small business that employees 20 people. Raising their taxes from 35% back to 39.6% will hurt. The couple with the $300K may have to lay off some of those 20 people they employ. So that's where you have the argument about who benefits and who gets hurt by it. The guy layed off at the small business would be hurt by it.

 

[Larmer83]

I dont really know. I know I dont want my taxes to go up. Both sides say different things. One side says, it only affects the really rich, one side says it affects middle america.



Is there honestly anywhere I can read exactly what the tax cuts do?

Try this article...then drink heavily.



http://finance.yahoo.com/banking-bu...tcies-weren't-on-wall-street?mod=bb-budgeting



Meanwhile, get ready for plenty more political pork. Tax loopholes for favored interests. Extra spending for pals. That's why special interests support parties, and the parties know it. Both parties do it, and if the Republicans want to stay in power, they will too.

 

[E Runs]

Cut them all for everybody! It's fucking crazy that anyone could possible be taxed to the tune of 35% or higher.



And **** the estate tax too!

 

[Larmer83]

The way it worked is basically everyone's taxes rolled back 3% back in 2001. So if you were in the 28% tax bracket you moved to the 25% bracket. The highest tier moved the most from 39.6% to 35%. If nothing is done, you would go back to 28% on 1/1. That part is not in dispute. It's what to do with the top tier. The Dems want to keep everyone at current rates and change the top tier back to 39.6% - this is for anyone making more than 250K per year. The good/bad is how you want to view it. Keep the top tier at 35% means Warren Buffet, Paris Hilton, and Bill Gates get a tax break they don't need and for that I see the Dems point. On the other hand, what about the couple down the street from you in a modest house making $250k or the couple making $300k with their small business that employees 20 people. Raising their taxes from 35% back to 39.6% will hurt. The couple with the $300K may have to lay off some of those 20 people they employ. So that's where you have the argument about who benefits and who gets hurt by it. The guy layed off at the small business would be hurt by it.

Based on any article I've read, your description is not quite right. The couple making $300 K would not see an increase on all of their $300,000 but the amount over 250 K would be taxed at an incremental higher rate.

 

[Kerfuffle]

Based on any article I've read, your description is not quite right. The couple making $300 K would not see an increase on all of their $300,000 but the amount over 250 K would be taxed at an incremental higher rate.

True - but if nothing is done the whole thing reverts back to the old tax brackets and then the whole $300K gets taxed at the higher rate.

 

[Larmer83]

True - but if nothing is done the whole thing reverts back to the old tax brackets and then the whole $300K gets taxed at the higher rate.

The Senate voted 81-19 to pass. On to the House.



Your post was misleading with this part-"The Dems want to ..."

 

[Kerfuffle]

The Senate voted 81-19 to pass. On to the House.

The House is the sticking point - many Dem members in there do not like the current bill and that old guy filibustered by 8 hours on it last Friday. But they also have to realize the political fallout of raising taxes and that a key Obama campaign pledge was "if you make less than $250K you will not see your taxes raise a single dime" so if this doesn't go through the House we all get whacked and the President looks really bad.

 

[BigPete]

The whole concept hinges on nothing but trickle down economics. The theory is that if you allow people to keep more of their money then they will spend more on goods and services and the government will still get some of that money through taxes at the register.



What I can't understand is how anyone thinks we can reverse the national debt by not changing a single thing. You have to cut spending and you have to bring in more money to take a red budget back to a black one. That is a very simple concept that does not seem to resonate with anyone in this country. All anyone hears is, "you are going to take more of my hard earned money."



As for the idea about the small business owner being hurt...you don't make $300,000 in sales revenue and claim $300,000 in personal revenue on your taxes. Take a frigin accounting class. There quite a few other columns on a small business's accounting ledger every month, it is no where near that simple. Don't be fooled by that bit of right wing rhetoric. They are protecting their uber rich friends that give them thousands or even millions in campaign funds every season, or go golfing with them at the poshest clubs. John fucking Boehner is the biggest lobbyist whore of them all and he is going to be the damn speaker (huge fucking tragedy imo).



What really pisses me off right now is that the Republicans are playing all kinds of bullshit games in the House right now so NO vote is made at all and they make Obama look like a double dumbass. Once a dumbass for coming to an agreement with them and selling out his party, and twice a dumbass for not getting this 'important job-growing' measure to be made law. It is all still the same bullshit divisive polotics being played in Washington. The original Tea Partiers had a great mission to throw out all the incumbants but they were infiltrated by the Republican Party who basically served to do nothing but derail 60 Dems out of their seats. Great, now we have more Republicans in the House playing fucking games like filibustering 87 times this month so the lame duck congress truly becomes a lame duck congress.



Good luck getting reelected Obama....I have lost hope. By this time two years from now while someone else is winning the White House we will be even further in debt....awesome. I'm moving to the moon, **** this real life game of casino with other people's money.

 

[Kerfuffle]

Pete - the spending by our government needs to stop - the American people made that pretty clear in November. The Republicans are filibustering everything as you say because they need to. The lame duck Dem controlled Congress knows that they lose the House on Jan 5th so they are trying to ram every piece of legislation through as they can that fits their agenda. Not sure if you are aware but there is currently a $1.1 Trillion dollar stimulus #2 on the table trying to be pushed through. It is once again loaded with all kinds of pork projects - thousands of them. So I agree with the Repubs on this - shut everything down that this lame duck Congress wants and focus everything on extending the tax cuts for all Americans. The DADT policy is another policy trying to be pushed through that is low priority and should not have time spent on it now. The American people want jobs and they need their taxes kept at the current rates. Stop the spending!

 

[MassHavoc]

So this is your idea of a new fun thread?

 

[E Runs]

What I can't understand is how anyone thinks we can reverse the national debt by not changing a single thing. You have to cut spending and you have to bring in more money to take a red budget back to a black one. That is a very simple concept that does not seem to resonate with anyone in this country. All anyone hears is, "you are going to take more of my hard earned money."

It resonated alright but guess what, they managed to get into this astronomical debt with having enough of our "hard earned money". **** them if they want more.





re nothing changing: Not surprising, i never thought it would. But I do feel bad for people who bought Obama's change rhetoric. Reality slaps hurt.

 

[Tater]

It resonated alright but guess what, they managed to get into this astronomical debt with having enough of our "hard earned money". **** them if they want more.





re nothing changing: Not surprising, i never thought it would. But I do feel bad for people who bought Obama's change rhetoric. Reality slaps hurt.

 

[Kerfuffle]

So this is your idea of a new fun thread?

I guess. I like discussing politics and social issues / news events. So it fits the 'new thread' concept. I guess 'fun thread' would be a matter of opinion.

 

[IceHogsFan]

Three things for me to be happy about this morning.



The tax rates will remain the same. (Love how the media uses the negative spin of words by saying "Tax Cuts" instead of extending the current tax rates?)



Reid has thrown out the Omnibus Bill with over 6,000 earmarks.



The public is finally realizing what many of us have said and feared all along about Obama being unqualified to lead.

 

[IceHogsFan]

What it means to you [media]http://money.cnn.com/2010/12/15/news/economy/tax_deal_what_is_in_bill/index.htm?hpt=T1[/media]

 

[supraman]

It resonated alright but guess what, they managed to get into this astronomical debt with having enough of our "hard earned money". **** them if they want more.





re nothing changing: Not surprising, i never thought it would. But I do feel bad for people who bought Obama's change rhetoric. Reality slaps hurt.

Yep nothing changes. The problem is the American people want their cake and eat it too. They want low taxes and great welfare programs. Well you can't have both, the economics just don't work that way.

 

[BiscuitintheBasket]

It resonated alright but guess what, they managed to get into this astronomical debt with having enough of our "hard earned money". **** them if they want more.





re nothing changing: Not surprising, i never thought it would. But I do feel bad for people who bought Obama's change rhetoric. Reality slaps hurt.

Amen.









And yes I am in that bracket that would have shot to 39+%. That extra amount of tax and lack of proper itemization would mean that I would go from receiving ~$100.00 as my federal return to having to pay ~$10,000+. The lack of proper itemization would mean that I would donate less and spend less since I would be paying more in taxes to reduce how much I would need to pay. If they want to raise the rates for the highest bracket, then create a new bracket that is in the $1,000,000+



The worst idea is the estate tax. The person bequeathing it has already paid enough tax money, to get fucked an extra time close to 1/2 the amount passed on is bogus. Some people hoard the money\property so their kids or grandkids can have it that much better and easier.