Where's the foul call!!?

[Diddy1122]

WHERE'S THE FOUL CALL!!? I was screaming that at my TV during the Bulls-Nets game on Saturday, hoping by some miracle that my primal shouts were heard by the glass-eyed refs stalking the sidelines.

I know I'm not the only one who's getting more than a little TO'd by the complete absence of foul calls for D Rose this season. I can't name any player in this league that draws as much contact as him, and consistently gets no whistle. What makes it worse is that several of these blatant no-calls have come in critical late-game posessions that have cost us some games. Rose has played in 76 games. He has 226 FTA. 226! Devin Harris, who draws just as much if not more contact than Rose, has 593...in 65 games. For a player who scores the majority of his points in the paint, Rose's total is woeful.

They always talk about the "Rookie" treatment, and young players having to earn their respect with the refs. That's bull. In fact, one could even call it a form of hazing. A foul is a foul, and the mere fact that a practice like this, and others like it are going on is a big problem. I thought the reason David Stern hired a retired General to oversee the refs was to clean up idiotic, old antics like this, and others. Even in general, the refs have been fairly awful across the board and it's appearing to me that this was just a slick PR move by the Maestro of Bball to keep the Senate from getting involved, like they have in Baseball.

When Brandon Roy recently talked about lack of foul calls for certain players. Even though I found it funny coming from him because he's 15th in the league in attempts, there was some definite truth to what he was saying. Some of these players in the league can bait officials into calls. Kobe is notorious for this. As was MJ back in his day. Is Rose going to have to suddenly break out of his character and be the loudest person on the court to get a stinkin' call?

Perhaps I should draft a letter, or maybe better yet, a petetion...signed by the fans...sent to David Stern demanding he look further into the unprofessional conduct that is happening on a game to game basis by his employees.

In the meantime, I'll just pray that D Rose gets maybe 2 shooting fouls a game next season.

 

[chi_hawks_23]

I know this is something that Doug touched on in BB107, and I would completely agree that Rose is getting hosed right now. But unlike most of you, I'm glad this is happening, and here's why.....

1.) This will teach Rose to finish the play all the way out and not anticipate a foul call. Don't get me wrong, he is getting fouled, no doubt about it. But with him being so young and still developing as a player, this is teaching him that there is no bailout call just b/c he drove to the rim (the Kobe/LBJ/Wade touch fouls we see). So often we see players hear he whistle and kind of "chuck" up a shot after getting hit. Wade often gets the whistle on his first step towards the bucket, but he does an amazing job of continuing as though there were no whistle and getting the bucket and the foul.

2.) Derrick will start getting these calls next season and the season after, assuming he continues to improve and makes some All-Star games. Right now, it seems that he is getting far less calls then he should be. Next year, I anticipate him getting more of a "fair" treatment, and then after his 3rd season and hopefully an All-Star game appearance, he will get the "star" treatment.

3.) Once Derrick does start getting fair to preferential treatment from the zebras, he will have ingrained the notion that hes probably not getting a call and needs to do all he can to make the bucket. This will make him very dangerous in the open court and in ISO formations. He has a strong torso and upper body (like a mini LBJ) and will be able to rack up "and 1's" and a very high rate. If he were to be getting bailed out right now, we may have won a few more games this year, BUT, I think down the road, we will be far better off.

So overall, I think he's getting hosed by the refs now, but it won't last. And in the end, he will be a better and more dangerous player because of it.

Thoughts?

 

[dougthonus]

I agree with both points. Rose gets screwed, and it will be better as he plays more.

Also making sure he always tries to finish plays will be good. The thing Rose has going for him is he's going to win ROY, there will be press about how he doesn't get foul calls, the league will start promoting him.

In 2 years he'll get Dwyane Wade type whistles.

 

[collisrost]

dougthonus wrote:

The thing Rose has going for him is he's going to win ROY, there will be press about how he doesn't get foul calls, the league will start promoting him.

In 2 years he'll get Dwyane Wade type whistles.

I certainly hope so Doug. I'm not so sure, the Bulls have been given the short end of the stick by the refs since the Jordan days, I guess they're making up for all the calls he got or something. Clearly Rose will eventually be called at least fairly, but hoping for the superstar bailout calls in two years... I don't know. I guess maybe.

 

[cool007]

The thing is that I watch a LOT OF games of all teams and I also watch all the rooks - especially the top ones (Mayo/Lopez/Gordon/Beasley/Oden etc) and I have not seen 1 rookie that gets hosed for as many calls as Rose.

If you look at all those Rooks, they all have been on the free throw line double digits time in atleast 1 game.

THIS HAS NEVER HAPPENED TO ROSE YET AND THE SEASON IS ALMOST OVER AND ROSE IS THE ONLY ROOKIE GUARD/FORWARD THAT SCORES MOST OF HIS POINTS INSIDE THE PAINT.

That tells you how bad the reffing is - and I see much worse for the Bulls as a whole - especially for a playoff team.

I know when we were called a jumpshooting team (with Skiles) and we were not getting many calls because of our rep of "jump shooting" team. But this year under Vinny, we score far more inside the points since probably 1998 season.

I understand if the refs miss those questionable calls but they miss so many OBVIOUS calls that someone from a thousand feet away can see it but those 3 zebras at different angles and close to 10-15 ft can't see it??? To me they just swallow the whistle and refuse to call it (or decide not to call it at all).

This is why it really hurts us more especially since we don't have a All-star or superstar yet and also having rookie coach doesn't help either (especially when he sits on his hands and not complain or get a tech).

Also, Paxson used to send a tape of those missed calls and how bad the reffing was, to the league but this year he is also sitting on his hands partying somewhere after a good trade.

This is why I am hoping for 2 things.

1 - we make playoffs and make some noise (not win the series but force 6 games).
2 - Rose improves and becomes a star/superstar in a hurry.

Those 2 things will probably result in respect from refs and we will start getting calls (hopefully).

 

[jakobeast]

So the idea was floated by some folks that Seabs' contract negotiations were being hampered by his, shall we say, sloppy play. Granted, his hit totals are fantastic, and almost what the rest of the team has as a whole, but we have all seen deficiencies that seem out of character for him.



The question then was asked is Duncs' sloppy play effecting Seabs? Dunc has been erratic this season as well, I think we can all agree on that. In that Minny game he had a pass to Seabs picked off in the slot and luckily Crow was on his toews. See what I did there?



Mind you, They are a great 1-2 D pairing, and I put them up there against any other pairing in the NHL.



However, with some out of character play, is it effecting the wonder twins? Will/has it effected the negotiations with Seabs?



These are all just questions to spurn a discussion. What do y'all think?

 

[R K]

I don't think the contract talks have anything to do with whats happening on the ice.



who were the "some folks"?

 

[Chief Walking Stick]

I don't think the contract talks have anything to do with whats happening on the ice.



who were the "some folks"?

I believe someone who has recently "left" the boards as MassHavoc explained it to me... of which we do not speak the name.

 

[FlaHawkFan]

I believe someone who has recently "left" the boards as MassHavoc explained it to me... of which we do not speak the name.

Voldemort!!

 

[jakobeast]

Just some scuttlebutt I have heard from various places. A co worker, a cousin, other various outlets.



I personally don't think Seabs is going anywhere, nor do I think Dunc is the cause of all of his problems or vice versa. Just wanted to see peoples opinions about it.

 

[R K]

I do not believe Seabrook signed his new contract until near the end of that season. I don't think he's going anywhere nor do I believe it has anythign to do with their play.

 

[bri]

I have been saying for a long time that something was off between the two of them. I have my opinion, but I will keep it to myself because that is all it is, my opinion.

 

[puckjim]

When one has a bad game, the other one does, it seems.



So if Keith, for example, has a bad season, could this effect Seabs's stats/play to the point where it effects his pay?



How much will this season's (stats and overall) play help/Seabrook's contract?



I would argue Seabrook helped Keith put up Norris Trophy numbers last year and earn himself a big fat contract.



If that's true, then the reverse could be true, and the poor play of Keith in Seabrook's contract year is hurting his pricetag.

 

[R K]

I have been saying for a long time that something was off between the two of them. I have my opinion, but I will keep it to myself because that is all it is, my opinion.

Come on chicken. What's your theory??

 

[jakobeast]

When one has a bad game, the other one does, it seems.



So if Keith, for example, has a bad season, could this effect Seabs's stats/play to the point where it effects his pay?



How much will this season's (stats and overall) play help/Seabrook's contract?



I would argue Seabrook helped Keith put up Norris Trophy numbers last year and earn himself a big fat contract.



If that's true, then the reverse could be true, and the poor play of Keith in Seabrook's contract year is hurting his pricetag.

Like I said, wondertwins.



It does seem that they are either on or off at the same time.



Seabs did help imo, but Duncs earned that trophy. And his big pay raise? well, I think he is getting paid fairly. In fact, 5. whatever a year for a 2 time all star, Norris winner is a damn good deal in my eyes. I dunno if Duncs play id effecting Seabs as much, but it sure as hell doesn't help.

 

[jakobeast]

I have been saying for a long time that something was off between the two of them. I have my opinion, but I will keep it to myself because that is all it is, my opinion.

Does it have to do with them 69ing? Cause I haven't seen photographic proof yet.

 

[FlaHawkFan]

Come on chicken. What's your theory??

I know! I'm dying to know, Bri. It's fine if it's your opinion. That hasn't stopped anybody else. Spill!

 

[R K]

Like I said, wondertwins.



It does seem that they are either on or off at the same time.



Seabs did help imo, but Duncs earned that trophy. And his big pay raise? well, I think he is getting paid fairly. In fact, 5. whatever a year for a 2 time all star, Norris winner is a damn good deal in my eyes. I dunno if Duncs play id effecting Seabs as much, but it sure as hell doesn't help.

One time all star. The fans chose him this year. He is not an Allstar by his play. Also that contract is a life long contract. He's here for ever.



I'm ok with that I like them both and feel they lock Seabrook up here soon. If not they have a HUGE hole to fill and the hawks will be one of the softest teams in the Western Conference.



As for him effecting Seabs you have concrete proof it is. When Hjlmarsson was sucking Q put Seabs with him to settle him down. It was almost an instant effect to Hjarlmarsson. His game improved almost over night. Duncan's play is most definitely effecting Seabrook. Duncan had a horrible game last night, thus so did his partner. They are on the ice together.



Seabrook started out shakey, He improved. Keith has gone down hill most of the year.

 

[puckjim]

I'm sure Seabrook's agent cringes when he sees -3 in the boxscore.

 

[jakobeast]

I may be pointing out just one thing, but take for instance last night. His turn over to Havlat Christ that led to Minny's first goal. That is a brain fart I have seen him do a few times this year. That Colorado game comes to mind as well.



The fans choosing him as an all star in my mind doesn't diminish it. Most of the all stars were picked that way this year.