Why the three pointer is ruining basketball

[clonetrooper264]

and i am saying that im not sure how much more popular you expect him to be no matter how much his game is liked or not liked.

lebron for 20 years has been at the top of fan voting and he isnt a 3 point shooter either.

obviously steph curry has been as well and he is a 3 point shooter

Well that's actually the point. If the midrange/post game was actually so beloved, Demar should be more popular than he is, but he is not. Is the midrange/post game really as beloved as the internet comments make it out to be? I'm thinking not.

And this is all just mostly spitballing on what the sentiment that I've seen is.

Conversely, you can see a conversation like this one https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/11cgtvj where people rightly point out that the elite scorers continue to shoot, and must shoot, the midrange. Which is true, elite scorers are 3 level scorers, able to score at the rim, from midrange, and from 3 with good proficiency.

What I'm really getting at is comments such as this in the reddit thread, "I really liked the Rip Hamilton spot up 15 footers" or even the premise of that thread "i can't help but think the art of the mid-range is going continue to fade (which is unfortunate as it is my favourite shot to watch" where there is seemingly a longing for the midrange shot. I don't think this sentiment is as popular as it seems. Similarly for post up centers and such, I don't think there's an overwhelming number of people who are pining for that style of basketball.

 

[knoxville7]

Well that's actually the point. If the midrange/post game was actually so beloved, Demar should be more popular than he is, but he is not. Is the midrange/post game really as beloved as the internet comments make it out to be? I'm thinking not.

And this is all just mostly spitballing on what the sentiment that I've seen is.

Conversely, you can see a conversation like this one https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/11cgtvj where people rightly point out that the elite scorers continue to shoot, and must shoot, the midrange. Which is true, elite scorers are 3 level scorers, able to score at the rim, from midrange, and from 3 with good proficiency.

What I'm really getting at is comments such as this in the reddit thread, "I really liked the Rip Hamilton spot up 15 footers" or even the premise of that thread "i can't help but think the art of the mid-range is going continue to fade (which is unfortunate as it is my favourite shot to watch" where there is seemingly a longing for the midrange shot. I don't think this sentiment is as popular as it seems. Similarly for post up centers and such, I don't think there's an overwhelming number of people who are pining for that style of basketball.

more popular than he is?? so youre saying he has to be lebron esque level popular for people to like his game? cuz that is basically what you are saying since demar is already uber popular

 

[clonetrooper264]

more popular than he is?? so youre saying he has to be lebron esque level popular for people to like his game? cuz that is basically what you are saying since demar is already uber popular

No, that's really not what I'm saying

 

[clonetrooper264]

I'm just going to state my line of thought here, since it is relevant to this thread topic.

I've seen comments such as these which basically say, I want to see less threes and a return to midrange/post play:






If this is truly a widespread sentiment, shouldn't Demar and/or Jimmy be consistently more popular than, say, Dame, or Trae Young, players who consistently shoot a lot of 3s, which is supposedly unappealing? This is just the random thought that came to mind.

The REAL point is, do people actually want to see midrange shots and post ups all game long? I don't think people do, they just think that they do because "the old stuff was better and the new stuff sucks".

 

[Axl Rose]

I agree the game has lost it's edge, there not being much in the way of rivalries, and no real variation in how teams play. However there is def some looking back with rose tinted glasses. Watching the likes of Corey Maggette try to be Jordan got brutal.

 

[Crystallas]

I'll tell you what, the commercials today are definitely worse than this. However, I don't think there's much different in terms of "highlight gameplay" today compared to this video. Only difference I can think of is on those dunks there's probably less people around the basket due to the spacing being way less in the 90s compared to now. That also decreases the frequency of the "double pass" highlights as usually there's very few opportunities for a second pass to be made around the basket, again due to spacing. It does still happen once in a while.

This Jokic play is not unlike a few of the highlights in that 90s commercial compilation

Not saying what your overall point might be is inaccurate, but just judging off the video I'm not seeing a world of difference in the gameplay clips

How do you figure that there is less spacing now? I've seen this argument before, but the proof is cherry picked at best. Players in the 90s had different contracts, the leagues promotional departments didn't have the full rights to air ads with huge rosters in the background, all of the details are tallied and those players get paid based on their deals. There was a period of time where Barkley rejected his use in ads, I think that sparked the big debate that changed the contracts because nobody questioned Jordan wanting to reserve his usage rights. Using the commercials to a short clip as a comparison, I'm not understanding the apples-to-oranges.

 

[clonetrooper264]

How do you figure that there is less spacing now? I've seen this argument before, but the proof is cherry picked at best. Players in the 90s had different contracts, the leagues promotional departments didn't have the full rights to air ads with huge rosters in the background, all of the details are tallied and those players get paid based on their deals. There was a period of time where Barkley rejected his use in ads, I think that sparked the big debate that changed the contracts because nobody questioned Jordan wanting to reserve his usage rights. Using the commercials to a short clip as a comparison, I'm not understanding the apples-to-oranges.

I'm a little confused on the question because there's more player spacing now than in the 90s, and I'm pretty sure I said that in the post also, though less explicitly.

In particular to the bold I was referring to this type of highlight from the video, where there is a pass and then another pass leading to a dunk, in close proximity to the basket (linked same video, but starting from the type of play I had in mind)

Spacing in the 90s you had much more action around the area commonly referred to as "the dunker's spot" which is named for exactly why you would think (I presume you know this already, but explaining for the general population). Nowadays that dunker's spot is usually vacated because that man has now spaced to the corner, or at least somewhere else.

If you look at a typical offensive possession from the 90s you will see some form of 2 bigs in the paint, maybe one guy in the corner, ball handling somewhere up top, and the 5th guy probably on the wing somewhere.

Here's a picture of such spacing, though quality is bad.


Of course that wasn't every time, maybe you want to exploit a matchup in the post so you have this sort of spacing instead. Obviously this scenario isn't intended to lead to a double drop off pass dunk.


Whereas nowadays typical spacing is basically 4 out and then the big comes to the top to set the screen, or it's just 5 out.


The rest of your post sounds like you're referring to something else though, so maybe I am misreading

 

[Crystallas]

I misread what you said. My bad.

 

[clonetrooper264]

I misread what you said. My bad.

All good

 

[BNB]

I agree the game has lost it's edge, there not being much in the way of rivalries, and no real variation in how teams play. However there is def some looking back with rose tinted glasses. Watching the likes of Corey Maggette try to be Jordan got brutal.

Yeah, rivalries almost don't even matter in the NBA nowadays. I think it's because the NBA is the one league where people root for players over teams more than any other league. Like, it the Cavs and Warriors weren't rivals.. it was LeBron and Curry. Once LeBron left, no one is getting hyped about a Cavs/Warriors matchup because it's meaningless.

And even the player rivalry doesn't even feel meaningful when all these guys are buddies.

 

[Scoot26]

Yeah, rivalries almost don't even matter in the NBA nowadays. I think it's because the NBA is the one league where people root for players over teams more than any other league. Like, it the Cavs and Warriors weren't rivals.. it was LeBron and Curry. Once LeBron left, no one is getting hyped about a Cavs/Warriors matchup because it's meaningless.

And even the player rivalry doesn't even feel meaningful when all these guys are buddies.

Rivalries basically died when the NBA made harsh penalties for any kind of fighting.

 

[clonetrooper264]

Rivalries basically died when the NBA made harsh penalties for any kind of fighting.

Plus all the players are friends from AAU or some such

 

[clonetrooper264]

I found this video interesting as it dives into the modern spacing concepts currently utilized by top offenses. Despite current perception, a lot of these spacing concepts resulted in layups (but of course open 3s were also generated).

It also made me chuckle because the Bulls very rarely do any of those, they're quite stationary by comparison

 

[Crystallas]

Stale systematic coaching(which turns into predictable play making and the use of strict offensive sets) is the result of the free agency system in modern sports. Notice, the teams that best exploit sets, are the ones that have been playing together the longest.

It's not the modern way of the NBA, the current spacing styles are a by-product of the CBA's evolution. It's proof that the league allows too much player movement and we need to allow it to roll back to when things like the Garnett-Jefferson trade can be scrutinized by team owners and must go through a conference and secret ballot vote. To me, that's the level of detail the league hasn't hashed out. It is absolutely the reflection of so many of the leagues issues.

 

[clonetrooper264]

Stale systematic coaching(which turns into predictable play making and the use of strict offensive sets) is the result of the free agency system in modern sports. Notice, the teams that best exploit sets, are the ones that have been playing together the longest.

It's not the modern way of the NBA, the current spacing styles are a by-product of the CBA's evolution. It's proof that the league allows too much player movement and we need to allow it to roll back to when things like the Garnett-Jefferson trade can be scrutinized by team owners and must go through a conference and secret ballot vote. To me, that's the level of detail the league hasn't hashed out. It is absolutely the reflection of so many of the leagues issues.

Well supposedly these apron rules are supposed to curb some of this player movement so I guess we'll see how that goes. I do find it interesting how teams have been so "easily" able to move these large contracts of late (thinking players like Gobert, KAT, PG, KD, Kyrie, Mitchell who have basically these supermax contracts that should be supposedly so hard to move). Meanwhile the Bulls can't get anyone to take their contracts (but this could be their fault).