Would you rather

[cubby chubby]

I don't see the Bears winning a single game this season. That would be the best-case scenario, IMO.

 

[ZOMBIE@CTESPN]

if our goals are 7-9 we should have just stuck with ja and lovie

 

[bearmick]

Also, I love how when the Bears were respectable and drafting around 19 or 20, it was the wrong time to take a QB because unless you get one of the top guys, it's not worth it. Yet now that they're awful and likely to get a high pick, the draft is a crapshoot so there's no point in wasting such a high pick on a QB. LOL!

 

[satchice]

Who plays QB for the top 10 teams in the NFL over the last five years? More times than not, where did that top 10 team find their QB? What's been the coaching turnover rate of those teams? What's the development process for the QBs on those teams.

I guess we would have to identify who the top 10 teams over the last 5 years are.... here is a list I just jotted down may be subjective..

Patriots- Brady - Late draft - no HC coach changes - 1 system entire career
Steelers- Ben - 3rd QB taken drafted Steelers finished 6-10- 1 HC change - 1 system change
Green Bay - Rodgers - pick 24 after team finished 10-6- no HC coach changes - 1 system entire career
Seahawks - Wilson - 3rd rd after team finished 7-9 - no HC coach changes - 1 system entire career
Broncos - multiple QBs -Multiple HCs and systems
Bengals- Dalton - pick 35 after team finished 9-7 - no HC coach changes - 1 system entire career
Colts - LUCK 1st overall pick to a team that went to 9 consecutive playoffs and tanked 1 year due to injuries before drafting him 2 HC's 1 system I think but not sure
Cardinals - multiple QBs mostly veteran FAs - Multiple HCs and systems
Texans- multiple QBs -Multiple HCs and systems
Cowboys- Romo - UDFA 2003 took over as QB in 2006 to finish 9-7 * 2005 cowboys were 9-7 - Multiple HCs and systems

I think that answers all your questions. I notice only luck was a top 10 pick, but the 5 years before Luck they were a top 5 team. The biggest trend is "no HC coach changes - 1 system entire career" It almost seems that the most important thing in todays NFL is the Offensive system.

 

[onebud34]

Also, I love how when the Bears were respectable and drafting around 19 or 20, it was the wrong time to take a QB because unless you get one of the top guys, it's not worth it. Yet now that they're awful and likely to get a high pick, the draft is a crapshoot so there's no point in wasting such a high pick on a QB. LOL!

My favorite is using the Browns drafting record as a rebuttal on why we shouldn't draft a QB.

 

[satchice]

Losing breads more losing. Pro players care nothing about some fucking college kid. They are worried about the direction of the team and their own employment and futures

This guys gets it!

 

[onebud34]

I think that answers all your questions. I notice only luck was a top 10 pick, but the 5 years before Luck they were a top 5 team. The biggest trend is "no HC coach changes - 1 system entire career" It almost seems that the most important thing in todays NFL is the Offensive system.

You don't consider the Panthers a top 10 team???

 

[Broc]

But seriously, fuck losing for draft. I get the strategy when the writing is on the wall, but psychologically--it's not in those players' make-ups. To compete and push to get this far just to blow it on purpose? eff that.

Why do people keep repeating this? Obviously the players and coaches aren't going to try and lose on purpose. Look, I'm not sure if you haven't been paying attention the first 3 games or what but this is a terrible football team in literally every aspect of the game. The losing is going to happen regardless so you might as well get on board and enjoy the ride to a #1 pick. Perhaps when we lose to the Jags, Bucs, and Titans reality will start to sink in...

 

[satchice]

Gotta love the meatball Bears fans that would rather continue living in 7-9 NFL purgatory than sacrifice 1 season bottoming out and securing a top pick. I mean it's not like we've just wasted 8 years of everyone's life waiting for Jay Cutler to deliver on all that supposed talent and potential or anything. What the fuck is 1 more season at this point, a season in which this team isn't sniffing the playoffs anyways... makes no sense.

It just blows my mind that people are so afraid of rolling the dice on a guy like Kizer or Watson out of fear he'll be a bust that they'd rather continue going nowhere, wasting even more time with a guy that's already a proven bust (Cutler). As if Cutler is some rare unicorn of talent we'll never be able to find ever again.

I mean clearly it's much better to continue trotting out Jay "0 fucks given" Cutler and drafting more bottom of the barrel 6th rounders (if we even take a QB at all). I mean just look at how much successs this method has brought us...
:bizarro::shot::facepalm:

I think you are missing it.. It is not about Kizer or Watson, who knows if theses are even the top QBs in the draft come May '17 most likely they wont be. It has nothing to do with being afraid of drafting a bust. The thing is I would rather have a team that is progressing and has confidence in themselves and their teammates and then take the best QB available. There really isn't a way of knowing what QB is going to be good ... look at the list of QB in my previous post The 1st RD QBs have no better success rate as a later guy... OF COURSE you take the best guy you believe in as soon as possible, even if the draft experts consider it a reach.

One thing is known for certain. Team that win progress faster then teams that lose. Players on winning teams have more confidence in their coaches they buy into the systems and function better as a team. Teams that constantly lose also lose faith in the system, their teammates, and even the good players start regression.

Why would you want the young players on this team to go though that? No matter what the Bears will draft a QB, hopefully in the first round, if not I would think the latest the second round.

 

[dabears70]

Would you rather see the Bears bottom out and grab a top pick for a QB next season OR turn the season around, end up 7-9 going 7-6 the rest of the season seeing the offensive line settle in, Kevin white shows his big playmaking ability, Howard establish himself as a #1, Amos get a couple TO, bush, kwitkowski, Bullard, Hall, Floyd start showing signs of optimisim and ability to become good players. Say we end up winning 3 of our division games.

I was listening to 670 this morning and they were talking about John Fox saying look at the panthers who turned around a terrible start to go 7-9, with the next year going to the Super Bowl.

Having o-line settle in, K.White show he'll be a good WR, Howard show himself to be a #1 RB, Amos, Bush, Kwitkowski, Bullard, Hall and Floyd show that they can all play well in this league would be absolutely huge for this team in their rebuilding plan so i'd actually chose that because if all of those players turn out to be good players along with all the other young talent we have then that would make it easier for us to trade a couple of 1st round picks to move up in the draft from say 12 to the top 3 to draft one of the top QB's. So we end up with a bunch of good young starters and still get our new young QB.

 

[satchice]

You don't consider the Panthers a top 10 team???

I said it was subjective... You could put them in their along with the Saints I guess, and take out any of the Cards, Cowboys, or Texans.

FWIW
Panthers 5 years = 2 winning seasons
2011 - 6-10
2012 - 8-8
2013- 12-4
2014- 7-9
2015 - 15-1

 

[onebud34]

I said it was subjective... You could put them in their along with the Saints I guess, and take out any of the Cards, Cowboys, or Texans.

FWIW
Panthers 5 years = 2 winning seasons
2011 - 6-10
2012 - 8-8
2013- 12-4
2014- 7-9
2015 - 15-1

Yeah, I'd put them in place of the Cowboys. They've won their division 3 years in a row

 

[onebud34]

I think you are missing it.. It is not about Kizer or Watson, who knows if theses are even the top QBs in the draft come May '17 most likely they wont be. It has nothing to do with being afraid of drafting a bust. The thing is I would rather have a team that is progressing and has confidence in themselves and their teammates and then take the best QB available. There really isn't a way of knowing what QB is going to be good ... look at the list of QB in my previous post The 1st RD QBs have no better success rate as a later guy... OF COURSE you take the best guy you believe in as soon as possible, even if the draft experts consider it a reach.

One thing is known for certain. Team that win progress faster then teams that lose. Players on winning teams have more confidence in their coaches they buy into the systems and function better as a team. Teams that constantly lose also lose faith in the system, their teammates, and even the good players start regression.

Why would you want the young players on this team to go though that? No matter what the Bears will draft a QB, hopefully in the first round, if not I would think the latest the second round.

The QB is the biggest issue with this roster currently...and has been for a while now

 

[ijustposthere]

Would you rather see the Bears bottom out and grab a top pick for a QB next season OR turn the season around, end up 7-9 going 7-6 the rest of the season seeing the offensive line settle in, Kevin white shows his big playmaking ability, Howard establish himself as a #1, Amos get a couple TO, bush, kwitkowski, Bullard, Hall, Floyd start showing signs of optimisim and ability to become good players. Say we end up winning 3 of our division games.

I was listening to 670 this morning and they were talking about John Fox saying look at the panthers who turned around a terrible start to go 7-9, with the next year going to the Super Bowl.

We do not have a team like the Panthers. The Bears are almost completely talentless. I'd much rather see them bottom out and actually get some playmakers on this team than have another mediocre season.

 

[satchice]

I can get on board with that.. BTW Cowboys have 41 win in that last 5 years thanks to the 4 win season last year... and Panthers have 48, so you are absolutely right...

 

[Hawkeye OG]

People seem to forget that good QB play will help elevate players around them. Look at Cam Newton last year. Who was he throwing too? Ted fucking Ginn. We do not need to have a full and complete roster in place before we draft a QB. We need a guy that our players can look to and someone who will energize this team. Look at what Wentz is doing in Philly. That team is excited because they know they have a young franchise QB who will play his ass off. We need that. Draft a QB, TE, RT, sign a CB and pass rushers in FA that are qualify starters and the Bears might actually compete next year.

 

[Broc]

I think you are missing it.. Why would you want the young players on this team to go though that?

No, you're missing it. It's not about what I want. I want the Bears to stop being a bush league operation run by morons and win a SB, hell win a fucking game at this point. But guess what, that shit isn't happening regardless of how much I want it. Nobody has to "want the Bears to lose", they're going to do it regardless this season. The only question is if they're going to be bad enough to land the top pick or not.

This progression and winning culture you want to breed, we've wasted 8 trying to build that winning culture around Cutler and what do we have to show for it? Nothing. We haven't sniffed the post-season in 5 years. Another limp dick 7-9 season and trotting Cutler out there again next season doesn't get this team any closer to building a winning culture.

The first step in building a winning culture (besides cleaning house at Halas Hall) is solving the QB problem and the best way to do that is take the best prospect you can at that position. The higher the pick the better. As for the players I'm pretty sure the professional athletes on the team would get over a 2-14 season pretty fucking quickly when they landed Kizer or whoever with the #1 pick instead of knowing they're about to waste another year of their careers under a going nowhere bum at the end of his career like Cutler.

 

[satchice]

The QB is the biggest issue with this roster currently...and has been for a while now

Okay, so we draft a QB at #11 or #16 instead of #2 or #4 overall... There are actually a lot of QBs in this years draft. This is coming back to what is the talent difference between Watson and Kizer and who ever is the favor of the month of April '17. The talent gap between who ever the top 3 QBs will have less significances on their success then going to a stable team vs a dysfunctional team.

 

[Broc]

Additionally I'd argue that a guy like Cutler does more to hurt the team morale/confidence/buy-in/whatever you want to call it. I can't imagine any of the young players on this team came into spring training excited about the prospects of having their team lead by Cutler at this point in his career. Contrast that with the excitement and buy-in a guy like Kizer/Watson/Kayaa/etc would generate.

 

[onebud34]

Additionally I'd argue that a guy like Cutler does more to hurt the team morale/confidence/buy-in/whatever you want to call it. I can't imagine any of the young players on this team came into spring training excited about the prospects of having their team lead by Cutler at this point in his career. Contrast that with the excitement and buy-in a guy like Kizer/Watson/Kayaa/etc would generate.

I can't imagine any young player having respect for him. And any veteran leadership that you might have had are now playing for other teams. So far this year, I see this team following the leadership of #6.

This is the "well, you know" year.