Youth and Lord Stanley's Cup

[BiscuitintheBasket]

Wait, pro hockey is not a real job?!? Crap, now I cannot convince my wife to keep allowing me to play hockey because it can lead to a real job.




To get this thread back on track. Reading the article, and looking at Cup winning teams over the last 40 years, there is a tendency to the winning team to be younger on the whole, but not an overwhelming whole. Which can lead to the conjecture that the probability of winning comes to those that are young. However it is a failed conjecture that does not look at the whole....or even that it takes a TEAM to win.

 

[Variable]

How many people play in the NHL TCD? This is ridiculous. Again, arguing just to argue, over something that I never even was trying to say. Hence the quotes around the term. I'm not saying it's not a job people. I knew that was a mistake lol. I knew it. Expected too much on that one.</p>

 

[the canadian dream]

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Variable" data-cid="227944" data-time="1398818948">
<div>


How many people play in the NHL TCD? This is ridiculous. Again, arguing just to argue, over something that I never even was trying to say. Hence the quotes around the term. I'm not saying it's not a job people. I knew that was a mistake lol. I knew it. Expected too much on that one.</p>
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arguing just to argue? </p>


 </p>


That's what arguing is in the first place. Not arguing to play donkey kong.</p>

 

[Variable]

Does that include making shit up I never said? Apparently so.</p>

 

[Pez68]

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Forklift" data-cid="227902" data-time="1398808456">
<div>


What you are already starting to see is players willing to take less money than they'd get on the open market (Hjalmarsson is the most recent example) to stay with a winning team. Players are becoming more cognizant of the fact that taking a million dollars a year less enables a Cup contending team to spend that million elsewhere in order to win. And to paraphrase Hjalmarsson, he's still making an awful lot of money.</p>


 </p>


And overall team construction is important - players like MacKinnon will be great, but until they get some top-shelf defensemen he's going to live the same life as John Tavares, watching hockey in May and June on television.</p>


 </p>


But the window isn't closing any time soon on Toews or Kane, since Toews turned 26 today, and Kane doesn't until November. How open the window stays is dependent on the age/performance of other components. This is where drafting and development will play a large part. The pre-cap method of the Red Wings going out and grabbing aging superstars hunting for a Cup won't be as effective as (as stated above) bringing in the Brandon Saads and Andrew Shaws to play significant roles for relatively low pay.</p>
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 </p>


Getting back on topic...... yeah, that will help some, but only to a certain extent. The problem is that when you overpay certain players, it completely negates the discounts you may be getting on the others. I can't really take a side in that battle though. Every contract a player signs could be his last, so to want the maximum amount of money is perfectly understandable. Then again, some of these guys have already had huge pay days, and still hold their team hostage when negotiating.</p>

 

[Rex]

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Variable" data-cid="227944" data-time="1398818948">
<div>


How many people play in the NHL TCD? This is ridiculous. Again, arguing just to argue, over something that I never even was trying to say. Hence the quotes around the term. I'm not saying it's not a job people. I knew that was a mistake lol. I knew it. Expected too much on that one.</p>
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 </p>


how many people play hockey....shit</p>


 </p>


I work for a company which employs 80,000 people and has a gross annual income of the Original Six. That being said, within the whole company I am one of 35 people who does what I do, and can do what I do.</p>


 </p>


Guess that's not a real job. </p>

 

[Rex]

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Pez68" data-cid="227954" data-time="1398821002">
<div>


Getting back on topic...... yeah, that will help some, but only to a certain extent. The problem is that when you overpay certain players, it completely negates the discounts you may be getting on the others. I can't really take a side in that battle though. Every contract a player signs could be his last, so to want the maximum amount of money is perfectly understandable. Then again, some of these guys have already had huge pay days, and still hold their team hostage when negotiating.</p>
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 </p>


Ban Crawford. Such Overpaid. </p>

 

[Pez68]

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Rex" data-cid="227955" data-time="1398821058">
<div>


how many people play hockey....shit</p>


 </p>


I work for a company which employs 80,000 people and has a gross annual income of the Original Six. That being said, within the whole company I am one of 35 people who does what I do, and can do what I do.</p>


 </p>


Guess that's not a real job. </p>
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 </p>


Who gives a ****? Professional athletes don't have a NORMAL job. I'm pretty sure that was the point Variable was making. They play a GAME that they love for a very good living. Yes, becoming a professional athlete is a lot of work, but that applies to ANY career. You can't just wake up one day and decide to be a doctor, lawyer, computer engineer, dentist, nurse, so on and so forth. How long do most people work to become a doctor?</p>

 

[Pez68]

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Rex" data-cid="227956" data-time="1398821109">
<div>


Ban Crawford. Such Overpaid. </p>
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 </p>


Not yet he's not. </p>

 

[Rex]

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Pez68" data-cid="227961" data-time="1398821552">
<div>


Who gives a ****? Professional athletes don't have a NORMAL job. I'm pretty sure that was the point Variable was making. They play a GAME that they love for a very good living. Yes, becoming a professional athlete is a lot of work, but that applies to ANY career. You can't just wake up one day and decide to be a doctor, lawyer, computer engineer, dentist, nurse, so on and so forth. How long do most people work to become a doctor?</p>
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how long do most professional athletes work before they make the money they make right now? </p>

 

[BiscuitintheBasket]

So....what is a NORMAL job?



And I would love to point out that one of my jobs a piece of cake, way tooooo easy for me to the point that I love it...say have a passion for it, and they pay me well to do it because I do it well.

 

[Variable]

holy fucking christ</p>

 

[the canadian dream]

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Pez68" data-cid="227961" data-time="1398821552">
<div>


Who gives a ****? Professional athletes don't have a NORMAL job. I'm pretty sure that was the point Variable was making. They play a GAME that they love for a very good living. Yes, becoming a professional athlete is a lot of work, but that applies to ANY career. You can't just wake up one day and decide to be a doctor, lawyer, computer engineer, dentist, nurse, so on and so forth. How long do most people work to become a doctor?</p>
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Many don't have a "normal" personal life either. Live under the microscope of asshole fans and asshole media who don't just harass them but also their families and make up shit about them. Imagine having a guy like RK texting you all day? Has to become a pain in the ass.</p>


 </p>


I KID RK I KNOW YOU ARE LURKING!!</p>


 </p>


 </p>


Anyways this is all sounding like sour grapes and jealousy. Can't live like that. Yah a lot of these guys probably get paid more than they should for what they do. Not as if if they took a few thousand bucks off a players salary that its going to appear in your pocket. So why the **** does anyone care what these guys make. This is why I hate the cap world in pro sports and why I liked it before when no one knew these guys salary and it wasn't public business. Still shouldn't be.  But again..they also create a trickle down effect in a lot of other economic areas. Last year during the lockout the small business i work for lost hundreds of thousands of dollars. Big hit for a small business. I may not have a job if not for a certain NHL team here that does generate revenue for our company just by existing. </p>

 

[Pez68]

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Rex" data-cid="227964" data-time="1398821793">
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how long do most professional athletes work before they make the money they make right now? </p>
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 </p>


Depends on the athlete and what you consider "work".</p>

 

[Chief Walking Stick]

Man it must really suck getting paid millions of dollars to be in the best shape of your life.</p>


 </p>


Sucks that I have a real person job.</p>

 

[Pez68]

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="The Canadian Dreamalchuk" data-cid="227973" data-time="1398822822">
<div>


Many don't have a "normal" personal life either. Live under the microscope of asshole fans and asshole media who don't just harass them but also their families and make up shit about them. Imagine having a guy like RK texting you all day? Has to become a pain in the ass.</p>


 </p>


I KID RK I KNOW YOU ARE LURKING!!</p>


 </p>


 </p>


Anyways this is all sounding like sour grapes and jealousy. Can't live like that. Yah a lot of these guys probably get paid more than they should for what they do. Not as if if they took a few thousand bucks off a players salary that its going to appear in your pocket. So why the **** does anyone care what these guys make. This is why I hate the cap world in pro sports and why I liked it before when no one knew these guys salary and it wasn't public business. Still shouldn't be.  But again..they also create a trickle down effect in a lot of other economic areas. Last year during the lockout the small business i work for lost hundreds of thousands of dollars. Big hit for a small business. I may not have a job if not for a certain NHL team here that does generate revenue for our company just by existing. </p>
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 </p>


Personally, I only give a shit because there's a salary cap. :lol:</p>

 

[Ton]

I agree to the premise, but that doesn't necessarily mean that being a young team will conclude as a Cup contender.</p>


 </p>


Look at Edmonton.</p>


 </p>


I'd say the Red Wings weren't "young" when they won the Cup in the salary cap era, let alone make it to the Finals two years in a row.</p>


 </p>


Top notch organizations find the right players, regardless of age, to build a team to win the Cup. I'd say there are usually 4-5 teams per year that have a legitimate chance of winning the Cup every year (pulled that stat out of my ass)... but the bottom line is, after you identify your core, and have a legitimate core, who can get hot in April, May, and June?</p>


 </p>


Most of the time, that's all it takes. The best thing a GM and coach can do is put their teams in the best position to win. I think Chicago has done a really great job at that since Stan and Q took over. Really can't ask for a better tandem.</p>


 </p>


Lets face it, Dale was lucky to draft Kane and Toews, and hasn't had that luck in Florida. He did an awesome job by giving Stan a good foundation by acquiring Sharp and drafting a couple other players. But that's about it. At this point, Stan is the man by making the right moves and evaluating the team correctly for 2 out of 4 years, potentially 3-5, or 2-5, which is still great.</p>

 

[BlackHawkPaul]

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Variable" data-cid="227941" data-time="1398818190">
<div>


We can't compare any one of our jobs to playing in the NHL. The circumstances are just completely off the wall different. I never said Hjalmarsson didn't deserve a raise, I never said playing hockey wasn't a job, I never said that players should just be happy to play. Never said any of that or alluded to any of that. All I said, all I ever said, was I remember when Hammer made that comment and rolled my eyes, because what he's talking about, taking "less" than what he could've got, is still generational wealth, of which he already had, and it just sounds bad. That's all it was. People are literally making up shit just to argue. </p>
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YOU posted it.

I asked a question about what you posted that you can't even come up with the answer to. You are making shit up just to argue.

It's like debating with an insane person.


Anyway,

The reason why I posted the article was I don't think I can necessarily get on board with persons A-D are young, so this is the reason why cups are won. Yes, Gretz won cups when he was young, then never did later, but were the Rangers he joined built to win? Mess only played with him one season if I remember correctly, and the Blues made a splash trade in which him and Hull couldn't find the same page.

 </p>


Belfour won his first of two cups at 32. Borque won his in his final season. Lanny Mcdonald won a cup in his final season, but he did have Theo and Macinnis helping.


Does this scenario play true for the Blackhawks? Will Kane and Toews win cups early never to see Lord Stanley in their 30s? Or is this about getting the right players together. By the logic of the author, the Oilers should be primed to win 5 cups in a row, yet there isn't veteran leadership on that team, and I think Smyth wasn't the old guard wanting to take helm of that ship.</p>

 

[Tater]

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="The Canadian Dreamalchuk" data-cid="227937" data-time="1398816630">
<div>


Yah and leagues like nhl don't create a trickle down effect in local economies at all. Players have nothing to do with that being the draws that they are and having their income levels reflect that. Nor do players work on their skills  like the rest of the work force in the real world.</p>
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 </p>


<span style="color:#800080;">No such thing.</span></p>


 </p>
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="The Canadian Dreamalchuk" data-cid="227942" data-time="1398818623">
<div>


Can we compare my job to your job? Probably completely different too. Doesn't mean both aren't "real world jobs". If you are getting paid to slaughter aliens on pluto then yah probably not a "real world job". Anything else is a "real world job" and that always doesn't have to include a wage or salary. Some "real world jobs" are unpaid indeed..like Stus mom giving out bj's. It's a "real world job" even though she doesn't see a dime for the service provided.</p>
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 </p>


Not true, I tip well.</p>

 

[puckjim]

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Variable" data-cid="227903" data-time="1398809026">
<div>


Yeaaah, I remember Hjalmarsson saying that, and I also remember  rolling my eyes so hard they almost left their sockets. Look, it's good that players are more cognizant of that, but when they say things like that they......should just not say things like that lol. I mean, if you really care that much about keeping the team together and how you've already attained generational wealth, here's an idea, sign for the league minimum or half of what your last contract was,etc or something like that.(and I know that's probably never going to happen). Not after getting a raise. That's why I put hometown discount in quotes, because while it is a "discount", it's still kinda ridiculous.</p>
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What's ridiculous is the notion that professional athletes should take less money "for the good of the team" or "because they have enough already".  What a crock of shit.  This is their job, and that's it.  If a player gives a "hometown discount" it is always with themselves in mind.  Kane and Toews might take a little less to stay because they have a pretty secure endorsement money stream from promotional work that they do.  Can they do that in another city?  Likely, but it might not be as much or as lucrative.  It's a financial decision, nothing more.</p>


 </p>


Fans need to wrap their brains around the fact that the players they follow are not fans of the teams they play for.  They don't live and die by every bit of minutia that goes on.  This is their job, and professional athletes have very short careers.  They have to make every nickel they can because most of them are too dumb to do anything else.  </p>


 </p>


They live a different life than any single person you know. If they've achieved generational wealth, they want wealth for the next generation.  Greed, for lack of a better term, is good.  Greed is right.  Greed works.</p>