10/18: NLCS Game 2: Chicago Cubs (0) at (1) New York Mets 7:07PM CDT TBS

Midwaymonster75

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it's hard to get ahead in the count, we have no plate disicpline whatsoever, we swing at everything

Its not your plate discipline. The Mets pitching is just that good. Not bragging just telling you that ive seen these guys pitch all season and its what they do. Syndergaard in of his handfull of ml starts shut down the Blue jays offense. Harvey is Harvey and you guys get to see deGrom on Tuesday. deGrom out dueled Greinke and Kershaw in the Nlds. Great pitching beats great hitting and this is why i felt pretty good facing the cubs in the nlcs.

Tuesday is huge for you guys. If you guys can beat deGrom things get interesting. You still have quite a hill to climb and not much room for error but you have a chance. Lose and its over.
 

A.C. Milan

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for sure Mets have great pitching but we strikeout way too much anyway, it's been this way all season long, homers or strikeouts
 

beckdawg

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If you guys dont beat deGrom who unfortunately for you has been better than both Harvey and Syndergaard the series is over.

I really don't agree with this. Call me biased if you want but the cubs should they win game 4 some how in that scenario would still have Lester and Arrieta pitching games 5 and 6 unless you threw Lester on short rest game 4. Additionally, the cubs have the type of line up that when hitting well can beat anyone. That's not to say by any stretch of the imagination that it would be easy to come back 0-3 but should they go down 0-3 and manage to win game 4 without Lester I think you can make a plausible case the cubs should get to game 7 and at that point all sorts of weird crap can happen.

It would actually be some what poetic. The Red Sox, under Theo at the time, managed to beat their biggest rival and tormentor after being down 0-3. That also happened to be the year they ended their streak. This season the cubs beat their biggest rival and the mets would probably be some where in the mix of the top 5 or so given the old division set ups.
 

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I really don't agree with this. Call me biased if you want but the cubs should they win game 4 some how in that scenario would still have Lester and Arrieta pitching games 5 and 6 unless you threw Lester on short rest game 4. Additionally, the cubs have the type of line up that when hitting well can beat anyone. That's not to say by any stretch of the imagination that it would be easy to come back 0-3 but should they go down 0-3 and manage to win game 4 without Lester I think you can make a plausible case the cubs should get to game 7 and at that point all sorts of weird crap can happen.

It would actually be some what poetic. The Red Sox, under Theo at the time, managed to beat their biggest rival and tormentor after being down 0-3. That also happened to be the year they ended their streak. This season the cubs beat their biggest rival and the mets would probably be some where in the mix of the top 5 or so given the old division set ups.

I'd agree with you, but that Red Sox team had Pedro and Schilling in their starting rotation.
 

beckdawg

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I'd agree with you, but that Red Sox team had Pedro and Schilling in their starting rotation.

Well 2nd half Arrieta was literally one of the best of all time. Lester isn't likely as good as Pedro and Schilling were at that time but he's no slouch. It more comes down to someone like Hendricks being as good as Tim Wakefield/Derrek Lowe.
 

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I won't say the season is over, but if they lose game 3, it's definitely on life support. The team needs to find their bats in a hurry.
 

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Mets did what they had to do to maintain home field advantage.

Cubs bats should liven up in the warm weather we are supposed to get this week.

Take care of business at home and see what happens.
 

DanTown

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The Cubs (and really no one) are not going to beat these four Mets starters four straight games. When the Red Sox beat the Yankees, they beat Orlando Hernandez, Mike Mussina, Jon Lieber, and Kevin Brown.

If it's 3-2 Mets, you take your chances that Jake pitches better (he wasn't that bad last night, he just made one bad pitch to Wright and Murphy hit a great HR) and then game 7 is baseball. But obviously they need to win Tuesday then they need to win another game.
 

DJMoore_is_fat

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A few thoughts:

1) Yes, going down 0-2 with Arrieta and Lester is not good. But the series isn't over just yet. If we win game 3, anything can happen.

2) It's amazing we're even in the NLCS this year. To make it this far with this many young guys -- wow. It's a testament to their talent and to Maddon.

3) We're going to be very good for a long, long time. The Mets have a stable of young, flame throwers -- but as we saw with Prior/Wood/Zambrano, it's not easy to sustain. Might be a little easier to sustain a stable of young hitters (Schwarber, Bryant, Rizzo, Soler, etc).

4) We need to acquire young top end pitching. I'm not sure how we're going to do it -- but Theo and Jed need to make it happen. I no longer want older guys like Price -- the investment is poor. How can we get good young arms?
 

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A few thoughts:

1) Yes, going down 0-2 with Arrieta and Lester is not good. But the series isn't over just yet. If we win game 3, anything can happen.

2) It's amazing we're even in the NLCS this year. To make it this far with this many young guys -- wow. It's a testament to their talent and to Maddon.

3) We're going to be very good for a long, long time. The Mets have a stable of young, flame throwers -- but as we saw with Prior/Wood/Zambrano, it's not easy to sustain. Might be a little easier to sustain a stable of young hitters (Schwarber, Bryant, Rizzo, Soler, etc).

4) We need to acquire young top end pitching. I'm not sure how we're going to do it -- but Theo and Jed need to make it happen. I no longer want older guys like Price -- the investment is poor. How can we get good young arms?

#4 Sign Greinke immediately after the season ends.
 

DJMoore_is_fat

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#4 Sign Greinke immediately after the season ends.

Bad idea. We'll have two guys (Lester and Greinke) with their best years behind them -- signed to $50M+ combined per year. We'll turn in to the present day Yanks with CC Sabathia.
 

zack54attack

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Just have to win Game 3 and then make it a series again.

It doesn't help that Murphy is going through the hottest 2 weeks of his career. Guy is a bum except for the postseason this year... Might as well call him Mr. October.
 

Chief Walking Stick

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Just have to win Game 3 and then make it a series again.

It doesn't help that Murphy is going through the hottest 2 weeks of his career. Guy is a bum except for the postseason this year... Might as well call him Mr. October.


Warm weather at Wrigley will pay dividends for all the Latin players that are scared of the cold.

Time For another 6 HR game!
 

Sunbiz1

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A few thoughts:

1) Yes, going down 0-2 with Arrieta and Lester is not good. But the series isn't over just yet. If we win game 3, anything can happen.

2) It's amazing we're even in the NLCS this year. To make it this far with this many young guys -- wow. It's a testament to their talent and to Maddon.

3) We're going to be very good for a long, long time. The Mets have a stable of young, flame throwers -- but as we saw with Prior/Wood/Zambrano, it's not easy to sustain. Might be a little easier to sustain a stable of young hitters (Schwarber, Bryant, Rizzo, Soler, etc).

4) We need to acquire young top end pitching. I'm not sure how we're going to do it -- but Theo and Jed need to make it happen. I no longer want older guys like Price -- the investment is poor. How can we get good young arms?

Stats have always shown cold weather favors pitching, making #4 a #1 priority.

Young pitching can be acquired/developed from their Dominican scouting/training facility, doesn't necessarily have to be a FA.
 

Boobaby1

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The Cubs drafted well for years with hitters, and that is how you acquire talented pitching.

Pitching is going to come at a cost, and you can bet one of these guys are going to be traded.

I still think they are going to go after a Zimmermann type, or John lackey (to bridge) for the top of the rotation, along with trading for a young pitcher like Ross or someone of that caliber.

Of course that would leave someone out, but that would be your depth as either Hammel or Hendricks goes to long relief or spot starting.

The starting staff has been exposed in the playoffs as they did win over a beat up Cardinal staff, and they at least need a strong #2 in the rotation, and quite possibly, an equal to or better than Lester and drop him down to the number three.

Just my opinion.
 

TC in Mississippi

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The Cubs drafted well for years with hitters, and that is how you acquire talented pitching.

Pitching is going to come at a cost, and you can bet one of these guys are going to be traded.

I still think they are going to go after a Zimmermann type, or John lackey (to bridge) for the top of the rotation, along with trading for a young pitcher like Ross or someone of that caliber.

Of course that would leave someone out, but that would be your depth as either Hammel or Hendricks goes to long relief or spot starting.

The starting staff has been exposed in the playoffs as they did win over a beat up Cardinal staff, and they at least need a strong #2 in the rotation, and quite possibly, an equal to or better than Lester and drop him down to the number three.

Just my opinion.

I'm in agreement. It's not that you can't win with this staff, I'm not conceding this series just yet, but if you're going to try to get to the playoffs year after year as this team is poised to do then it needs to be better. If they had a #3 on par with some of the other playoff teams you would feel a lot better, even down 2-0. If you had #4 that was better than Hammel or Hendricks you'd feel better still. The Mets aren't going away any more than the Cubs are the next few years. That pitching is strong and they might be able to trade a Harvey or Wheeler to fill some of the offensive holes. I don't see tehm signing Cespedes or Heyward or anyone like that. Baseball makes strange bedfellows, even thought they're rivals in the NL and will be for a few years there might be trade there. Whatever works out this FO is not blind. They see what we see. The pitching will get better and the assets, both human and financial, are there to do so.
 

beckdawg

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The cubs have more pitching than people realize in their system. It is clearly overshadowed by the hitting and the fact there is no top 25 prospect. With that being said, Pierce Johnson still has #3 tools and should start in AAA next season with a chance to be fast tracked by midseaosn. Edwards probably starts in the bull pen given how they have approached this season with him but you never know. Those are the only two decent names at the high level.

A year from now Duane Underwood might be a top 30 prospect. Hell, mlb.com has him #67 right now. I'm guessing he starts next year in AA but he could also start in A+ with an eye toward a quick promotion depending on other players. That puts him 2-3 years out but he truly does have TOR stuff if everything comes together. Then you have Dylan Cease who throws 97 with a decent curve. He's more like 4-5 years away but he's a legit prospect. Bryan Hudson they drafted in the 3rd this past draft is on a similar time frame and has 2 plus pitches. It falls off a little after that. Justin Steele, Jen-Ho Tseng, Jake Stinnett, Oscar De La Cruz, Rob Zastryzny, Trevor Clifton, Daury Torrez, Jeremy Null and Ryan Williams are all still legit prospects but probably more #3-5 starters. Carson Sands I think from what i've read could fall into either of the two groups I mentioned but at the moment he's not been that amazing.

The thing about pitching is guys will often just come out of no where and suddenly be top prospects. Typically the higher rated guys are college guys who get drafted just because among pitchers they are more "sure things." But using Underwood as an example, I don't even think he was in mlb.com's top 15 cubs prospects before this year.And it's not even a case of him being a low pick that shot up. IIRC he was a 2nd round pick. You look at another guy like Steven Matz from the mets system and he was the met's 29th ranked prospect after 2012 according to BA, their #12 prospect after 2013 and their #2 prospect after 2014.

So like I said, it's not really that they lack pitching. It's more that they lack MLB ready pitching. And the thing is you have a #1/2 assuming they lock Arrieta up. So, this doom and gloom about getting a young stud is a bit much. If Johnson comes up at midseason and pitches like a #3 your 1-4 is probably one of the best 1-4 in baseball or at the very least top 5. I have mentioned this a number of times but the cubs starter fWAR was the highest in the majors. Their starter ERA was 3rd in the majors behind the Cardinals who had a statistically absurd year and the Dodgers who had 2 of the 3 Cy Young candidates. The cubs starters were second to the indians in k/9. They were 3rd behind the mets and nationals in bb/9. They were 1st in FIP. Just to be clear here.... we're talking about a team who basically was piecing together a #5 starter for most of the year and they still put those numbers up.

Long story short, the cubs don't need David Price to have a great staff. If they got another pitcher basically on the level with what Hendricks gave them they would have a phenomenal staff albeit greatly under appreciated by the media and most fans. Given the ridiculous amount of depth in starters in FA you could very realistically sign someone like John Lackey for $10-15 mil/season for say 1-2 years to get you by until your younger pitchers are ready. Trades are always an option but it isn't like they have to deal to make it work. With that being said, they have a number of lessor prospects who are rule 5 eligible so it wouldn't shock me that much to see one or two smaller trades for various parts. Guys like Vogelbach, Corey Black, and Daury Torrez are possibly guys who won't fit on the 40 man and you may choose to deal instead. They probably need to make a choice on either Christian Villanueva or Jeimer Candelario in the offseason as well considering Baez may end up having to play 3B and even if he doesn't, you have Bryant and those two will be fighting each other for time in AAA likely by the end of next season.
 

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Just have to win Game 3 and then make it a series again.

It doesn't help that Murphy is going through the hottest 2 weeks of his career. Guy is a bum except for the postseason this year... Might as well call him Mr. October.

I was thinking the same thing. Baseball has a funny way of evening the ledger....when he finally burns out, he could go 0 for the rest of the series. This guy is simply not that good. This is not just my opinion either....

http://mlb.nbcsports.com/2015/10/19/the-mets-dont-plan-to-bring-daniel-murphy-back/
 

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