1994 Bulls vs 2011 Bulls in 7 game series

[RamiTheBullsFan]

Eternityw: 'Noah wasn't as good as Scott Williams/Longely/Wennington/Cartwright'

^his opinion is now void

Scottiepippen94:

'Pippen > Jordan/Olajuwon/Robinson'

'Bulls beat the Rockets in the regular season once therefore they would've beat them in the Finals too'

...and referring to Jordan as "Mrs. Olajuwon" while butchering the spelling.... and THEN calling out Houff for a typo?!

^his opinion is now void

 

[houheffna]

I really don't know who wins that series...its a toss up...

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

If those two teams played each other 100 times, it would be split somewhat even.

But, again, it depends on the rules and format the game was played in.

 

[eternityw]

94 bulls - pacers game.
pippen's clutch shot

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UJ7jMYqUdQs]‪pipclutch.mpg‬‏ - YouTube[/ame]

 

[RC_Skinny22]

94 bulls - pacers game.
pippen's clutch shot

‪pipclutch.mpg‬‏ - YouTube

Why do people always argue with videos of single moments? In this case you showed that Pip hit a clutch three, so what? I can post the video of Derrick making the clutch three against Houston last season as well.

Single clips are never a good argument for which team would win this series!

 

[eternityw]

i am not talking about who would win the series. in this thread was comments that pippen can't make clutch shots.... he could as we can check in this video.

 

[Kush77]

lol if anyone thinks pippen was robbed of MVP in 94 they need their head checked(no offense)...pretty sure robinson was 2nd in voting not ewing....it went Olajuwon,Robinson,then Pippen i think

again pippen had a great year...no one is arguing against that..he was the best SF in the league that year(of course the SF crop wasnt extremely strong back then but he was the still best anyway)...

and yes i know the MVP doesnt always go to the best player.....it usually goes to a player that puts up good numbers and wins alot of games..MOST VALUABLE player...pippen was a very valuable player that year but i would argue that olajuwon and robinson were better that year as well as more "valuable"...

in fact, pippen was not in the top 5 in win shares or win shares per 48(which of course is not perfect because i do think pippen was a top 5 player in the league that year..not to mention win shares can be distorted because of high offensive production such as stockton's assists and malone and reggie's scoring prowess)

I couldn't care less about "win shares" I care about actual wins. Which the Bulls had 55, only 2 less than the year before, with the greatest player of all-time on the roster.

Scottie proved how valuable he was to the Bulls when he came back early from an injury that season (I believe it was after the West coast trip).

The Bulls were under .500 and Pippen came back vs. Phoenix, the team that was the favorite for the NBA title. Pippen's returned, the Bulls destroyed Phoenix and took off from there.

A strong case can be made for Pippen being MVP that year. Anyone who thinks otherwise should have their head checked (no offense)

 

[Kush77]

Let me put it this way.

What did Olajuwon and Robinson do different than the year before? A few more wins, a No. 1 seed for Hou. True.

But did either of those guys lose the G.O.A.T from their team?

How would S.A. have done if Rodman retired before the season? How would Houston have done if Otis Thorpe or Mad Max retired before the season?

MJ retires right before training camp and Pippen kept that team afloat and won 55 games.

If Pippen isn't on that team, they don't make the playoffs.

This is that Phoenix game I was talking about - they were 5-7 when he came back. They won 13 out of 14 (10 game win streak) after he came back. They went 4-6 without him - which is solid - but I don't think they'd be a playoff team without him.

Phoenix Suns at Chicago Bulls Box Score, November 30, 1993 | Basketball-Reference.com

 

[Kush77]

"If I had to pick a center [for an all-time best team], I would take Olajuwon. That leaves out Shaq, Patrick Ewing. It leaves out Wilt Chamberlain. It leaves out a lot of people. And the reason I would take Olajuwon is very simple: he is so versatile because of what he can give you from that position....People don't realize he was in the top seven in steals. He always made great decisions on the court. For all facets of the game, I have to give it to him."

-- Michael Jordan

I agree with Michael Jordan. I've always had Hakeem as my "all-time" center.

His performance in the 1995 NBA playoffs sealed the deal for me.

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

Sorry but the Bulls of Scottie Pippen didn't even win their division. Why aren't we looking a team like Atlanta who won 2 more games and had a player that averaged 19 and 12 for the MVP award?

The MVP needs to be put into context. Pippen had as much help, wasn't as depended upon, wasn't as good of a player, and had less wins than Olajuwon's team and the same amount of wins as Robinson's.

There is ZERO case for Pippen as the 1994 MVP.

 

[scottiepippen1994]

Eternityw: 'Noah wasn't as good as Scott Williams/Longely/Wennington/Cartwright'

^his opinion is now void

Scottiepippen94:

'Pippen > Jordan/Olajuwon/Robinson'

'Bulls beat the Rockets in the regular season once therefore they would've beat them in the Finals too'

...and referring to Jordan as "Mrs. Olajuwon" while butchering the spelling.... and THEN calling out Houff for a typo?!

^his opinion is now void

I was calling you mrs.Olajuwon..Nowhere did I call jordan that you dumbass...

 

[scottiepippen1994]

Dude, it's ironic that you question a spelling mistake...something that I do infrequently, while you seem functionally illiterate. Yet I NEVER questioned your ability to spell or write in complete sentences, you seem to be unable to accomplish either feat.

That said, you question Noah's shooting motion....did you ever....EVER watch Cartwright shoot a basketball? Give me a damn break...

I hate to say this, but I agree with the playboy hue hefner on this point..Cartwright probably had the ugliest jumpshot in NBA history......LMAO !!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

I was calling you mrs.Olajuwon..Nowhere did I call jordan that you dumbass...

You responded to a quote made by Michael Jordan.

 

[97Bulls]

Let me put it this way.

What did Olajuwon and Robinson do different that the year before? A few more wins, a No. 1 seed for Hou. True.

But did either of those guys lose the G.O.A.T from their team?

How would S.A. have done if Rodman retired before the season? How would Houston have done if Otis Thorpe or Mad Max retired before the season?

MJ retires right before training camp and Pippen kept that team afloat and won 55 games.

If Pippen isn't on that team, they don't make the playoffs.

This is that Phoenix game I was talking about - they were 5-7 when he came back. They won 13 out of 14 (10 game win streak) after he came back. They went 4-6 without him - which is solid - but I don't think they'd be a playoff team without him.

Phoenix Suns at Chicago Bulls Box Score, November 30, 1993 | Basketball-Reference.com

Great points. This is why I say, pippen deserved the mvp. Most people thought the bulls would be a barely above 500 win team minus jordan. What robinson and olajuwan did was really not out of the norm or unexpected. And this is why I say based on tthe criteria now, rose this year and nash in 06, the award will be given to the player that's lead their team and done more than what's was expected and overachieved.

I do agree with heff that olajuwan winning was more of a liftime achievement award. Siimilar to jordan loosing to karl malone in 97. But even more was that the nba was looking for a new face for the league. Most of the awards given are about politics. And while pippen was one of the best players in the league, he wasn't considered a face of the league. Perhaps if he had been able to lead his team to heights similar to 94 he'd won in a few years.

The only thing I disagree with kush is that under 500 is not solid. Well, maybe under the circumstances.

 

[scottiepippen1994]

You responded to a quote made by Michael Jordan.

I called you that because he is all you have tlked about for the last 8 pages or so..Why don't you leave this thread and go start your own litle Olajuwon post where you can talk to yourself and play with yourself.........DUMBAZZ!!!!!!

 

[Kush77]

Sorry but the Bulls of Scottie Pippen didn't even win their division. Why aren't we looking a team like Atlanta who won 2 more games and had a player that averaged 19 and 12 for the MVP award?

The MVP needs to be put into context. Pippen had as much help, wasn't as depended upon, wasn't as good of a player, and had less wins than Olajuwon's team and the same amount of wins as Robinson's.

There is ZERO case for Pippen as the 1994 MVP.

To put ZERO in all caps, you're out of your mind.

Obviously a "case" can be made because he got 7 first-place votes. So I guess those 7 NBA writers were just stupid?

Pippen wasn't as depended upon? What? They wouldn't have been a playoff team without him. Neither would S.A. or Houston, but Pippen was valuable.

"Wasn't as good of a player" is irrelevant to MVP voting. Rose isn't as good as LeBron and Nash wasn't as good as Kobe. Yet they won MVPs.

We aren't looking at Atlanta because their best player (Wilkins) was traded to the Clippers for Manning at the deadline. Had Wilkinks stayed on ATL, maybe he would have been in the mix.

 

[houheffna]

A case can be made for Pippen...no doubt...you can't make a case for Rose in 2011 and not make a case for Pippen in 1994. That said, when going over the criterion for MVP, Olajuwon trumps Pip and Robinson. Robinson had pretty close to a 30pt/11reb season.

And you know why Jordan liked Hakeem? Hakeem was quietly efficient. He was a great player who was genuinely unselfish and principled. I think Jordan respects that in any athlete. To show how great Olajuwon was, after the 1995 loss to Orlando, the media asked Jordan about trading Pippen, he replied, and I am paraphrasing, "for who? Olajuwon? Even then I am not sure I make that deal...". That shows Jordan's respect for both players...

 

[Kush77]

The only thing I disagree with kush is that under 500 is not solid. Well, maybe under the circumstances.

Let me clear that up a bit 97bulls. Under .500 considering they played the Circus trip without Pippen.

I agree with your post. The case can be made for Pippen in 1994.

That's not being a homer in any way shape or form. It's just a facet. And apparently 7 NBA writers agreed as Pip got 7 first-place voted for MVP in 1994.

I'm not saying Pip got robbed. And I'm not saying Hakeem didn't deserve it. I think the case can be made for both.

Phil Jackson on the other hand, was royally screwed out of coach of the year.

 

[CODE_BLUE56]

i never necessarily said that pippen had zero chance of being mvp that year but again,with what hou said, i would take robinson and olajuwon over him who had better seasons on both side of the ball and arguably had bigger impacts in the win column

pippen was the best SF that year..and best wing defender...but i dont think he was the best player or MVP but he certainly was a top 5 player,maybe top 3

 

[Kush77]

i never necessarily said that pippen had zero chance of being mvp that year but again,with what hou said, i would take robinson and olajuwon over him who had better seasons on both side of the ball and arguably had bigger impacts in the win column

pippen was the best SF that year..and best wing defender...but i dont think he was the best player or MVP but he certainly was a top 5 player,maybe top 3

So you don't consider losing the greatest player of all-time off the roster at all?

We know the MVP involves more factors than just "who's better."

I remember the Sun-Times having the Bulls as a 6th seed in their season preview. No expert probably thought they could win 50 games. I wish I had some preview mags from that year lol.

But that's not a factor. Losing the greatest player and still winning 55 games.

Like I said in my previous post. What if the Spurs lost Rodman and Houston lost Otis Thorpe? The Knicks lose Starks or the Suns lose KJ. How would those team have fared?

The Bulls lost the greatest. And Pippen helped them win 55. He didn't handle the spotlight well and we know of 1.8. But as far as the regular season goes - he proved to be a worthy MVP candidate.