1994 Bulls vs 2011 Bulls in 7 game series

[97Bulls]

how does it not...

jordan led the league in scoring..many people think he's a ballhog,selfish,etc. brings on the perception that he cant win a title

he proves them wrong and does

winning is done through a team..but its not like jordan just sat there while his teammates won the championship for him..i mean HE WAS the league leading scoring on a playoff team

my point is jordan is a winner, despite leading the league in scoring many times, which is often a contrasting correlation to championships the nba.

jordan was not a dominique or even a george gervin without or before pippen(i mean that he was better not worse)

I'm not sure how old you are. But this was the perception. Was it correct? Obviously not. But this generalization took place around 87 to 90. This was at a time when jordan had accumilated an mvp a dpoy and 3 scoring titles. Wilkins had 1 scoring title and like 4 second place finishes. And he won those two dunk contests over jordan. And at the time, those dunk contest were highly regarded. Now wilkins was never better than jordan. But he was on jordans level at the time. As their careers carried on the casm between the two grew tremendoulsly. But noone saw the bulls becomming what they became in the 90s. The second 3peat bulls were being compared to the beatles. They were pulling superbowl type ratings. Jordan and rodman. Took the nba to new heights.

 

[FirstTimer]

Now wilkins was never better than jordan. But he was on jordans level at the time.

No he wasn't. Wilkins never won an MVP. He never won a DPOY, let alone both in the same season. Wilkins was not the all around player Jordan was in the late 1980's. Wilkins wasn't even winning 1st team NBA honors at the time.

You're talking out of your ass.

 

[Rush]

"When trying to kill Rory, there are several factors to consider."

Just go with the rhythm...of the percussion.

 

[houheffna]

I'm not sure how old you are. But this was the perception. Was it correct? Obviously not. But this generalization took place around 87 to 90. This was at a time when jordan had accumilated an mvp a dpoy and 3 scoring titles. Wilkins had 1 scoring title and like 4 second place finishes. And he won those two dunk contests over jordan. And at the time, those dunk contest were highly regarded. Now wilkins was never better than jordan. But he was on jordans level at the time. As their careers carried on the casm between the two grew tremendoulsly. But noone saw the bulls becomming what they became in the 90s. The second 3peat bulls were being compared to the beatles. They were pulling superbowl type ratings. Jordan and rodman. Took the nba to new heights.

I believe the perception was mostly based around him being selfish and not trusting his teammates, and saying that he most likely won't win unless he changes his attitude. That was definitely a criticism of him in the late 1980's.

 

[CODE_BLUE56]

then you are in a race with sunbiz1.

i will be the victor

 

[97Bulls]

Based on what? Wilkins leading the league in scoring once and not winning it? George Gervin not winning it when he was on Spurs teams that weren't good enough to win it?

People saying that prior to 1991, even without the benefit are/were Special person.

What person actually thought Jordan scoring less with the players he had around him prior to Pippen, Grant. etc's emergence would make the Bulls a better team and give them a better chance to win a title?

This is hindsight first timer. Your right. But truth be told. Jordan avg 37 ppg was not condusive to winning. I remember when I played basketball, and my coach showing us games and how jordan would score a lot of points but at the expense of loosing the interest of the rest of the team, which made their defense suffer, it made the team one diminsional, they weren't in rythem. It was just bad basketball.

I mean, these guys are human. Who wants to just run up and down the court and watch jordan take damn near 30 to 35 shots a game. Then loose? Its hard to win like that. Jordan had to and learned to use him teammattes. And when he did that, the team took off. As he did.

And I thought you put me on your ignore list

 

[97Bulls]

I believe the perception was mostly based around him being selfish and not trusting his teammates, and saying that he most likely won't win unless he changes his attitude. That was definitely a criticism of him in the late 1980's.

Heff.... should I be concerend that I've agreed with your last 2 or 3 posts?

 

[97Bulls]

Because the Celtics were a better team. Do yourself a favor and look up what Wilt averaged against Russell. Russell didn't hand Wilt's ass to him. The Celtics had a better team.



---------------

We are talking about scoring titles sometimes being decided by narrow edges. We are really going to be meatheaded enough to think that because David Robinson won the scoring title by half a point over Shaq in 1994 that it was then somehow inherently more difficult for the Spurs as a team to win a title?

WUT!?!?

That's true. But that was the unfortunate perception. It wasn't a good way of thinking. But up to that point, it hadn't been done.

 

[houheffna]

Heff.... should I be concerend that I've agreed with your last 2 or 3 posts?

Yeah, probably so...lol. On the post before this one, I think I called out the King of all Basketball Retards though...so be careful...lol.

 

[FirstTimer]

This is hindsight first timer.

It's not hindsight. Was it any mystery at the time that Corzine sucked and Jordan shouldn't defer to him?

For Christ sakes.

I find it odd that the crtique of Jordan was "he should trust his team more" yet at the same time the media and fans were crying for better players around Jordan.

When Jordan got good teammates and coaching, he trusted it. Wanting Jordan to "trust" his teammates prior to 1990 or so was idiotic. I also find it odd that when Jordn started "trusting" his teammates that his assists went down his first title season and his scoring barely dropped..then actually went back up again his last season before retirement.

The whole "trusting" your teammates thing is a cute storyline but in reality Jordan didn't have to learn to trust his teammates....he was waiting for teammates that were worth a shit.

Your right. But truth be told. Jordan avg 37 ppg was not condusive to winning. I remember when I played basketball, and my coach showing us games and how jordan would score a lot of points but at the expense of loosing the interest of the rest of the team, which made their defense suffer, it made the team one diminsional, they weren't in rythem. It was just bad basketball.

I also remember Jordan dropping 50+ points in the playoffs. His scoring average in the playoffs and Finals actually going UP over what he did in the regular season and the Bulls winning a lot of titles.

His teammates lost interest or seemed to be disinterested because they were shitty players.

I mean, these guys are human. Who wants to just run up and down the court and watch jordan take damn near 30 to 35 shots a game. Then loose? Its hard to win like that. Jordan had to and learned to use him teammattes. And when he did that, the team took off. As he did.

Jordan never averaged more than 27.8 Shots per game. And that was in his 3rd season..He also shot 48% from the field that season. Not too bad. Who else on that 1986-1987 Bulls team should have been shooting? Jordan "when trusting his teammates" took betweent 22-24 shots pretty regularly. Then again those later Bulls teams had better players.

Yet again, it wasn't that Jordan had to learn to trust his teammates, it was that the Bulls were finally able to assemble talent around Jordan.

 

[97Bulls]

No, it wasn't. Jordan had a year when he averaged 35 ppg and still shot 53.5% from the field as a guard. How is that NOT conducive to winning?

Because the team didn't win rory. Go back and watch some of those games. Especially the ones where he took a lot of shots (made or missed) you can see the team as a whole get lazier and unfocused. They lost interest. You don't win like that.

 

[scottiepippen1994]

LOL at Rami claiming Pippen was never a Top 5 player in the NBA.

Wut?

Karl Malone almost as good on defense as Pippen?

Wut?

If Scottie was as tall as Hakeem he'd be better?

Wut? If Scottie was as tall as Hakeem he mayhave never learned the all around skill set he did.

If Oscar Robertson was as big asShaq he'd be the GOAT.

WOW!!!!!!!! Firsttimer finally makes a comment with a worthy cause..It must be revelations..Congrats Firstimer..You have takin your first step into a larger world..I'm proud of you son...Keep up the good work buddy..:dunno:

 

[scottiepippen1994]

x 1 million.

There is hope for youu after all...Good work friend:date:

 

[FirstTimer]

Because the team didn't win rory. Go back and watch some of those games. Especially the ones where he took a lot of shots (made or missed) you can see the team as a whole get lazier and unfocused. They lost interest. You don't win like that.

That team and those players sucked regardless of whether or not Jordan was there and taking any shots. Jordan being on that team didn't make them "disinterested" it just made them less active in a way because Jordan knew they blew goats.

 

[FirstTimer]

There is hope for youu after all...Good work friend:date:

You've been maybe the worst poster in this thread.

Kindly STFU.

 

[scottiepippen1994]

S H U T U P!!!!!!!!!You blow!!!!!!!!!!........

 

[FirstTimer]

I find this argument as Special person now as it was then.

What teammates on the Bulls in the mid to late 1980's should Jordan have "trusted" more and why?

 

[97Bulls]

It's not hindsight. Was it any mystery at the time that Corzine sucked and Jordan shouldn't defer to him?
that's funny. True. And funny. Corzine was shitty
For Christ sakes.

I find it odd that the crtique of Jordan was "he should trust his team more" yet at the same time the media and fans were crying for better players around Jordan.
I hear you. Jordan was kinda looked at as the redheaded stepchild. But he overcame it. But I would submiit to you that if doug collins ran a little more offense, the bulls probably would've won more games. As opposed to "just give the ball to jordan and get the **** out the way" offense.

When Jordan got good teammates and coaching, he trusted it. Wanting Jordan to "trust" his teammates prior to 1990 or so was idiotic. I also find it odd that when Jordn started "trusting" his teammates that his assists went down his first title season and his scoring barely dropped..then actually went back up again his last season before retirement.

The whole "trusting" your teammates thing is a cute storyline but in reality Jordan didn't have to learn to trust his teammates....he was waiting for teammates that were worth a shit.
I don't know if id call it "cute". They said jackson basically had to plead with him to get paxson the ball, cuz he was constantly open.

I also remember Jordan dropping 50+ points in the playoffs. His scoring average in the playoffs and Finals actually going UP over what he did in the regular season and the Bulls winning a lot of titles.
that's true too. But there's just an exception to every rule. And jordan was fortunate to have determined defensive minded players with him.

His teammates lost interest or seemed to be disinterested because they were shitty players.

again I agree his teammates could've been better. But let's look at that year he scored 37 ppg. That team had a 40-42 record. His core players were oakley, paxson,corzine, granville waiters (lol),brad sellers, and gene banks. In 95 scottie pippen had the bulls on pace to win 44 games with a core of toni kukoc, pete myers, kerr, corie blount, will perdue larry krystowiak and ron harper who played sparringly cuz he could pick up the offense. if you learn how to use your teammates right, you should get more out of them

Jordan never averaged more than 27.8 Shots per game. And that was in his 3rd season..He also shot 48% from the field that season. Not too bad. Who else on that 1986-1987 Bulls team should have been shooting? Jordan "when trusting his teammates" took betweent 22-24 shots pretty regularly. Then again those later Bulls teams had better players.

Yet again, it wasn't that Jordan had to learn to trust his teammates, it was that the Bulls were finally able to assemble talent around Jordan.

I think it was both. The team definately was up to par. But jordan had to learn how to be a team player in his own right.

 

[scottiepippen1994]

I find this argument as Special person now as it was then.

What teammates on the Bulls in the mid to late 1980's should Jordan have "trusted" more and why?

Jordan probabely could of trusted Mr.Rogers more than half th players on his team in th mid 80s..

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hnpMO8-9msw[/ame]

After all, Fred did have a wicked jumpshot...

 

[97Bulls]

That team and those players sucked regardless of whether or not Jordan was there and taking any shots. Jordan being on that team didn't make them "disinterested" it just made them less active in a way because Jordan knew they blew goats.

I think, if you put 91-98 jordan on that team, they win 50 games.