2012 Free Agents: Who do the Cubs go after?

[Rick]

I agree, Castro is pretty much the only one with potential. However, that doesn't mean the rest of the team doesn't have talent.

I'm sorry that Soriano has been a disappointment to you. That doesn't change the fact that he has been very good for us and his ability to carry the team for a week at a time.

I never said that Ramirez should be relied on, but he has the ability to carry this team. Plus, why are you using 06 as an example? We were terrible in 06 with or without Lee we were going to suck.

Why are Soto, Soriano, and non-2011 Ramirez not solid? I agree that 2011 Ramirez sucks. However, I really don't think that that will continue. That being said, he better not be back for 16 million or I will be one pissed off sailor.

No, Soriano hasn't been good for the Cubs. He was expected to be a 40/40 guy and/or a consistent offensive threat and he's failed.

So you're saying Ramirez shouldn't be relied on but he has the ability to carry the team? Thats kind of a contradicting statement and a wrong one. I'm using 2006 as an example because he had a chance to be the leader of that team and he wanted no part of it. Instead, he didn't get the Cubs clutch hits and he was a dog on the bases. I don't care how bad they were that year, they needed a leader on that team and he was a let down.

Non-2011 Ramirez? Who the hell cares about how Ramirez played when he was younger. That's not going to change the fact that he isn't as good as used to be. They aren't solid because none of them are very good...you're not an automatic World Series contender with Fielder, Soriano, Soto and Ramirez.

 

[DewsSox79]

No, Soriano hasn't been good for the Cubs. He was expected to be a 40/40 guy and/or a consistent offensive threat and he's failed.

So you're saying Ramirez shouldn't be relied on but he has the ability to carry the team? Thats kind of a contradicting statement and a wrong one. I'm using 2006 as an example because he had a chance to be the leader of that team and he wanted no part of it. Instead, he didn't get the Cubs clutch hits and he was a dog on the bases. I don't care how bad they were that year, they needed a leader on that team and he was a let down.

Non-2011 Ramirez? Who the hell cares about how Ramirez played when he was younger. That's not going to change the fact that he isn't as good as used to be. They aren't solid because none of them are very good...you're not an automatic World Series contender with Fielder, Soriano, Soto and Ramirez.

:clap:

 

[FirstTimer]

I can't wait to see CO's 2007 player rankings where Soriano was a top 10 player in baseball.

 

[Captain Obvious]

No, Soriano hasn't been good for the Cubs. He was expected to be a 40/40 guy and/or a consistent offensive threat and he's failed.

So you're saying Ramirez shouldn't be relied on but he has the ability to carry the team? Thats kind of a contradicting statement and a wrong one. I'm using 2006 as an example because he had a chance to be the leader of that team and he wanted no part of it. Instead, he didn't get the Cubs clutch hits and he was a dog on the bases. I don't care how bad they were that year, they needed a leader on that team and he was a let down.

Non-2011 Ramirez? Who the hell cares about how Ramirez played when he was younger. That's not going to change the fact that he isn't as good as used to be. They aren't solid because none of them are very good...you're not an automatic World Series contender with Fielder, Soriano, Soto and Ramirez.

So you're saying that because Soriano wasn't a 40/40 guy he has not been good? That is saying that if he was a 39/39 guy too, he wouldn't be good. Just because he didn't live up to your expectations, doesn't mean he has been bad.

I'm not sure what part of we would have sucked anyway in 06 you don't get. Why does a sucky team need a leader? They're going to suck either way. Plus, in case you haven't noticed, most of the leaders in the MLB don't go **** fighting. He isn't leadership material. Doesn't change how his on field performance is, though.

What exactly does it mean to be a dog on the bases? Are we talking about a greyhound? Greyhounds are fast. So no, Ramirez wasn't a dog on the bases. Sorry.

Okay, you say they aren't very good. Why not? Why aren't they very good?

:rofl:

By what measure?

He barely cracks the top 10 in stat catagories, wasn't in the Top 10 for MVP voting, etc.


Soriano's Top 10's that season and his place(NL Only):

SLG%: 10th
Total Bases: Tied 8th
HR's: Tied 8th
XBH: 6th
Power-Speed #: 8th
AB/HR: 10th

He wasn't even top 10 in OPS.



I remind you again...that's just on the NL side of things and doesn't even begin to bring pitchers into the equation.


Name your top 10 players from that 2007 season. Where does Soriano slot in? And what's the reasoning?


New ownership officially taking hold, dropped attendence, etc.

Like I've said before. If the Cubs went to $120 I wouldn't be shocked. I'm not saying that I think they can't or won't. I just don't think they should.

I was just trying to clarify that I think Dewy isn't saying the team is near bankruptcy or going into collection, just that(based on the info he says he has seen) that they aren't in position to go to $120.

I'd have to let Dewy answer the rest of that as he apparently has seen certain numbers.

According to WAR, he was a top 10 player. Including pitchers. WAR takes into account hitting and defense.

Players better than Soriano:
A-Rod, Wright, Pujols, Mags, Utley, Granderson, Holliday, Chipper, and CC.

I don't see why they aren't in a position to go 120. They did this year & new ownership had control. They decided to buy Pena, when they could have just let Colvin take over 1st for 400k. I see no reason to assume that payroll will be that low. Even with the bad attendance.

 

[nwfisch]

So you're saying that because Soriano wasn't a 40/40 guy he has not been good? That is saying that if he was a 39/39 guy too, he wouldn't be good. Just because he didn't live up to your expectations, doesn't mean he has been bad.

I'm not sure what part of we would have sucked anyway in 06 you don't get. Why does a sucky team need a leader? They're going to suck either way. Plus, in case you haven't noticed, most of the leaders in the MLB don't go **** fighting. He isn't leadership material. Doesn't change how his on field performance is, though.

What exactly does it mean to be a dog on the bases? Are we talking about a greyhound? Greyhounds are fast. So no, Ramirez wasn't a dog on the bases. Sorry.

Okay, you say they aren't very good. Why not? Why aren't they very good?



According to WAR, he was a top 10 player. Including pitchers. WAR takes into account hitting and defense.

Players better than Soriano:
A-Rod, Wright, Pujols, Mags, Utley, Granderson, Holliday, Chipper, and CC.

I don't see why they aren't in a position to go 120. They did this year & new ownership had control. They decided to buy Pena, when they could have just let Colvin take over 1st for 400k. I see no reason to assume that payroll will be that low. Even with the bad attendance.

I ask this every time you post it seems, but do you read what other people post, instead of putting words into their mouths and picking fights?

 

[FirstTimer]

According to WAR, he was a top 10 player. Including pitchers. WAR takes into account hitting and defense.

Not on baseball reference.

He wasn't even top 20 there. Then as I've already covered he wasn't top 10 in any other stat in the majors that season. So there isn't even a consensus on WAR because baseballref doesn't use UZR it uses DRS.

Try again.

Players better than Soriano:
A-Rod, Wright, Pujols, Mags, Utley, Granderson, Holliday, Chipper, and CC

Better than Sori in 2007?
LOL.

Try AT LEAST these guys:
Pujols
A Rod
Magglio
Miggy
Matt Holliday
Wright
Utley
Chipper Jones
Granderson
Rollins
Sizemore
Hanley
David Ortiz
Carlos Pena
Ichiro
Braun
Fielder
Lowell
Dunn
Ryan Howard

That's around 20 right there. No pitchers.


So if you are using only one WAR metric to put Sori in the Top 10..sorry, it doesn't work. Another WAR metric doesn't even have him top 20. For Christ sakes, I covered in the other thread that he is behind guys like Renteria and Hawpe in wOBA, wRC he wasn't even in the top 50.

I ask again:There are PILES of stats that Soriano doesn't rank in the top 10 of, the top 20 of, some in the Top 50 of and your argument for Soriano being Top 10 is one WAR metric? LOL.


You're such a homer it's pathetic.

Soriano was not anywhere close to a Top 10 player in 2007.

Give it up.

Do this board a favor and go back to PSD.

 

[FirstTimer]

 

[CODE_BLUE56]

Do this board a favor and go back to PSD.

but...but...then who would be our whipping boy?

 

[Captain Obvious]

I ask this every time you post it seems, but do you read what other people post, instead of putting words into their mouths and picking fights?

Great Rebuttal.

 

[nwfisch]

Yup CO doesn't read posts.

 

[Captain Obvious]

Yup CO doesn't read posts.

Okay, I'll be cool about this... What are you referring to in which I put words into mouths? Yes, I do read posts. Thanks.

 

[DewsSox79]

So you're saying that because Soriano wasn't a 40/40 guy he has not been good? That is saying that if he was a 39/39 guy too, he wouldn't be good. Just because he didn't live up to your expectations, doesn't mean he has been bad.

I'm not sure what part of we would have sucked anyway in 06 you don't get. Why does a sucky team need a leader? They're going to suck either way. Plus, in case you haven't noticed, most of the leaders in the MLB don't go **** fighting. He isn't leadership material. Doesn't change how his on field performance is, though.

What exactly does it mean to be a dog on the bases? Are we talking about a greyhound? Greyhounds are fast. So no, Ramirez wasn't a dog on the bases. Sorry.

Okay, you say they aren't very good. Why not? Why aren't they very good?



According to WAR, he was a top 10 player. Including pitchers. WAR takes into account hitting and defense.

Players better than Soriano:
A-Rod, Wright, Pujols, Mags, Utley, Granderson, Holliday, Chipper, and CC.

I don't see why they aren't in a position to go 120. They did this year & new ownership had control. They decided to buy Pena, when they could have just let Colvin take over 1st for 400k. I see no reason to assume that payroll will be that low. Even with the bad attendance.

What!?!? Are you gator? Im going to have to check IPs.

That is a fucking Special person comment. Greyhounds? Really? That was almost funny. ******.

 

[nwfisch]

Okay, I'll be cool about this... What are you referring to in which I put words into mouths? Yes, I do read posts. Thanks.

There was Cubs thread last week where EYT said Hendry was a bad GM because he didn't develop good prospects. You respond with trading being the best part about Hendry.

 

[DewsSox79]

Okay, I'll be cool about this... What are you referring to in which I put words into mouths? Yes, I do read posts. Thanks.

Thank god you are being cool about this, I wouldnt want to see what would happen if your werent.

 

[daddies3angels]

So that Ricketts said Hendry will spend money this offseason who will they get

 

[Captain Obvious]

What!?!? Are you gator? Im going to have to check IPs.

That is a fucking Special person comment. Greyhounds? Really? That was almost funny. ******.

It's sarcasm. Chill. Oh, you're always chill. Clearly RANGE FACTOR BRO.

He posted nothing to prove that Ramirez was a dog on the bases.

There was Cubs thread last week where EYT said Hendry was a bad GM because he didn't develop good prospects. You respond with trading being the best part about Hendry.

Development and trading are different things?

Thank god you are being cool about this, I wouldnt want to see what would happen if your werent.

Great Rebuttal.... BRO

 

[Rick]

He posted nothing to prove that Ramirez was a dog on the bases.

Since you couldn't figure out what I meant when I said Ramirez was a dog on the bases, (or basepads as I should have put it) I'll explain it to you...


Ramirez was dogging it quite a bit in 2006, meaning he kind of took it easy at times when running the bases. There was one instance that year against Milwaukee I believe where he could have easily stretched a single to a double but for whatever reason chose not to hustle. There were other times that year where he was guilty of this too.


Are we clear on this now?

 

[DewsSox79]

Since you couldn't figure out what I meant when I said Ramirez was a dog on the bases, (or basepads as I should have put it) I'll explain it to you...


Ramirez was dogging it quite a bit in 2006, meaning he kind of took it easy at times when running the bases. There was one instance that year against Milwaukee I believe where he could have easily stretched a single to a double but for whatever reason chose not to hustle. There were other times that year where he was guilty of this too.


Are we clear on this now?

This has happened more than a few times.

 

[Rice Cube]

I just don't get why the Cubs should spend on free agents this offseason when they'd need to practically sign both Fielder and Pujols (play him at 3B) to actually compete. It's just way too expensive to try to build around a combination aging/inexperienced core. For folks who keep spouting advanced statistics, I feel like they're not using these stats right. I look at the same stats and I just can't see how they can project to be a contender next season.

Glad it's not my money to be wasted and decisions to be made, but if I were the Cubs, I'd rebuild. Given the amount needed to try to renovate the park in absence of public funding, it'd just be foolhardy to blow money on payroll when A) next season's free agents aren't even all that good past Pujols and Fielder and B) Pujols and Fielder won't help you fix the pitching issues and other offensive holes. But now I'm repeating myself.

 

[The Bandit]

Here's what we need to do.
Sign Prince for starters.
Why? We need a staple in our offense that is a legitimate threat and he is not to shabby with the leather.
Re-sign Aramis Ramirez to a lesser contract after declining his option.
Why? Pretty simple, 1 he is an aging player that isn't at the same level as he used to be,2 there are no real options at 3rd base this offseason so why not bring him back if the price is right.
Bring back Kosuke Fukudome for a lot less money. AS A BENCH PLAYER AND A SUPER OUTFIELD UTILITY. Simple fact of the matter is, he isn't what we thought he was gonna be when we gave him 48 million dollars American. He is a solid player who can get on base and play defense. But he is to inconsistent. He's not Ichiro unfortuntely.
Trade Alfonso Soriano OR Marlon Byrd if the right deal comes along. Why? 1 Soriano is a no brainer here so no need for an explanation. But why Byrd? I love the guys heart and style of play but hes getting older and is an expiring contract. Just get some specs or a big expiring or something like Aaron Rowand, Barry Zito etc. just some random names don't go bananas
Trade Carlos Marmol to the Pittsburgh Pirates with specs for Joel Hanrahan. Why? 1 is the fact that I am sick and tired of gasping in every 9th inning he is in when he walks 3 batters. Hanrahan is a ridiculous pitcher right now. I love him and would love to see him closing out the games.
Sign any two of Ryan Madson, Mike Gonzalez, Johnathan Papelbon, Matt Belisle, or Matt Capps. Why? Our bullpen needs help. Grabow is coming off the books. He needs to be replaced, simple fact is there isn't really any middle relief pitchers on the market this year so take what you can get.
Sign Edwin Jackson, or Zach Duke, and try to sign Oli Perez to a minor league deal. Why? We need a 5th pitcher possibly a 4th aswell, Z, Dempster, and Garza are a lock unfortunatly for a couple more years. Wells in my mind should not be. and Cashner I'm still not sure of. Oli Perez could have a breakthrough so low risk high reward.
Other then this try to trade vets for specs if we are truly rebuilding