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Ovechkin and Grabovski going to have big years for Washington.</p>
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CLWolf81
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Its only Calgary....<span style="color:#800080;"> Lets hand the Caps the Cup while we're at it here.. </span>
I know Bettman would love that... </p>
I know Bettman would love that... </p>
Variable
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<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Trev" data-cid="210290" data-time="1380860155">
<div>
Why do you want fighting out of hockey? Is it ruining the game? No. I've never heard one person say they don't watch BECAUSE of the fighting.
Player safety? Again, when 98% of the players want to keep it in, and another 48% want the instigator gone what does that tell you the players want?
We've used extreme circumstances because that's where your argument and every anti-fighting advocate goes. "What happens when someone dies on the ice"? You've got a better chance of ruining your life taking the puck through the neutral zone.
You may want it gone as you think it's a sideshow, but many fans and obviously the players themselves want to keep it in the game.
I'll say one thing for sure, you ban fighting, you might as well say good bye to your star players cause teams will draft big guys who can skate and their only job will be to line skaters up every shift.</p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</p>
</p>
Yeah I've heard people say they don't like fighting and that being the main reason they don't like watching hockey. Or the reason they don't watch regular season hockey but watch the playoffs and/or Olympics. It's not that rare to have heard that outside of hockey circles. But I don't agree with them on it if that's their only reason. Fighting (especially now) isn't nearly reason enough to not watch the game. I can agree on it being an annoyance but not even close to making one hate hockey.</p>
</p>
Player safety. The NHL and players and GMs and fans in and around hockey have always had adverse reaction to changes regarding improving player safety. Helmets, visors, etc. Same reactions to it. Usually it takes death or severe injury to change their minds. So the real question is....do you want to continue to go on what players feel like is good enough when the example for the spur of change for them is someone dying?</p>
</p>
I personally have never used the reasoning with a player dying in a fight. I don't believe that to be the best argument for it, or even a particularly good one, though if it does happen it probably will be what changes it because see above paragraph.</p>
</p>
I'd like fighting out of the game is because it's part of the old dangerous culture of revenge and retribution that the NHL should've been outgrown by now. We know that fighting never really deterred anything. We know that when fighting and goons were at their peak in the game, without the instigator, there were more penalties (excluding fighting majors). A lot more penalties. A lot more cheap, dirty play. Their increased presence in those days didn't increase safety, instead it was the opposite effect. It encouraged more reckless play and behavior. Because there was a constant cycle of revenge taking against real or perceived slights (of which if you're on the opposing team, that might as well be slight to some goons), and the NHL back then had no restrictions on their "policing" abilities, they just let them go.</p>
</p>
We're fans of the same team. We've seen Seabrook and Hossa each almost get their heads taken off in consecutive postseasons by the same asshole. And in both games, either John Scott or Bollig were dressed. It's not going to stop guys like Torres from taking dirty shots at players. The league has to be the enforcer and hit them where it really hurts, in the wallet, by not allowing them to play. And when the don't or they lessen the suspension, they always protect the wrong players and that's a HUGE part of the problem right there. A lot bigger than there being fights still allowed. Like I said, it's a complete culture change that needs to happen, not just getting rid of fighting and calling it a day.</p>
<div>
Why do you want fighting out of hockey? Is it ruining the game? No. I've never heard one person say they don't watch BECAUSE of the fighting.
Player safety? Again, when 98% of the players want to keep it in, and another 48% want the instigator gone what does that tell you the players want?
We've used extreme circumstances because that's where your argument and every anti-fighting advocate goes. "What happens when someone dies on the ice"? You've got a better chance of ruining your life taking the puck through the neutral zone.
You may want it gone as you think it's a sideshow, but many fans and obviously the players themselves want to keep it in the game.
I'll say one thing for sure, you ban fighting, you might as well say good bye to your star players cause teams will draft big guys who can skate and their only job will be to line skaters up every shift.</p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</p>
</p>
Yeah I've heard people say they don't like fighting and that being the main reason they don't like watching hockey. Or the reason they don't watch regular season hockey but watch the playoffs and/or Olympics. It's not that rare to have heard that outside of hockey circles. But I don't agree with them on it if that's their only reason. Fighting (especially now) isn't nearly reason enough to not watch the game. I can agree on it being an annoyance but not even close to making one hate hockey.</p>
</p>
Player safety. The NHL and players and GMs and fans in and around hockey have always had adverse reaction to changes regarding improving player safety. Helmets, visors, etc. Same reactions to it. Usually it takes death or severe injury to change their minds. So the real question is....do you want to continue to go on what players feel like is good enough when the example for the spur of change for them is someone dying?</p>
</p>
I personally have never used the reasoning with a player dying in a fight. I don't believe that to be the best argument for it, or even a particularly good one, though if it does happen it probably will be what changes it because see above paragraph.</p>
</p>
I'd like fighting out of the game is because it's part of the old dangerous culture of revenge and retribution that the NHL should've been outgrown by now. We know that fighting never really deterred anything. We know that when fighting and goons were at their peak in the game, without the instigator, there were more penalties (excluding fighting majors). A lot more penalties. A lot more cheap, dirty play. Their increased presence in those days didn't increase safety, instead it was the opposite effect. It encouraged more reckless play and behavior. Because there was a constant cycle of revenge taking against real or perceived slights (of which if you're on the opposing team, that might as well be slight to some goons), and the NHL back then had no restrictions on their "policing" abilities, they just let them go.</p>
</p>
We're fans of the same team. We've seen Seabrook and Hossa each almost get their heads taken off in consecutive postseasons by the same asshole. And in both games, either John Scott or Bollig were dressed. It's not going to stop guys like Torres from taking dirty shots at players. The league has to be the enforcer and hit them where it really hurts, in the wallet, by not allowing them to play. And when the don't or they lessen the suspension, they always protect the wrong players and that's a HUGE part of the problem right there. A lot bigger than there being fights still allowed. Like I said, it's a complete culture change that needs to happen, not just getting rid of fighting and calling it a day.</p>
Shantz My Pants
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That's a fair argument.
I truly believe that we are in a cultural change though already. While their are still "goons" on the roster, we are seeing those numbers dwindle. Bollig isn't just seen as an enforcer anymore. He's seen as a guy who can play a regular shift in the lineup. The game is evolving and more and more kids coming up are more skilled than the goons were back in the 80s and 90s. We are going to see more players eventually in the molds of Chris Neil an Milan Lucic. Guys who have some skills (not that Neil has a ton) but who are willing to crash and bang.
I'm a fan of old school hockey, but as a coach I also have had to adapt to the new skill philosophy and that's why I respect guys like Downie and Lucic or Clowe and Clarkson. Guys who have the ability to play on the top 6 while also not afraid to pound the shit out of someone when needed.
I'm not a fan of the John Scott's or Mike Browns, but if they have a go then I will watch. Eventually they will be obsolete and fighting will decline but it will never be out of the game completely. It's too much of a high adrenaline fast pace game for it to go away.
I truly believe that we are in a cultural change though already. While their are still "goons" on the roster, we are seeing those numbers dwindle. Bollig isn't just seen as an enforcer anymore. He's seen as a guy who can play a regular shift in the lineup. The game is evolving and more and more kids coming up are more skilled than the goons were back in the 80s and 90s. We are going to see more players eventually in the molds of Chris Neil an Milan Lucic. Guys who have some skills (not that Neil has a ton) but who are willing to crash and bang.
I'm a fan of old school hockey, but as a coach I also have had to adapt to the new skill philosophy and that's why I respect guys like Downie and Lucic or Clowe and Clarkson. Guys who have the ability to play on the top 6 while also not afraid to pound the shit out of someone when needed.
I'm not a fan of the John Scott's or Mike Browns, but if they have a go then I will watch. Eventually they will be obsolete and fighting will decline but it will never be out of the game completely. It's too much of a high adrenaline fast pace game for it to go away.
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Trev whether you like it or not... within 10 years, fighting will be banned from the NHL.
I don't agree or want it to happen, but it's coming.
I don't agree or want it to happen, but it's coming.
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<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="WickedWrister" data-cid="210354" data-time="1380989671">
<div>
Trev whether you like it or not... within 10 years, fighting will be banned from the NHL.
I don't agree or want it to happen, but it's coming</p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</p>
</p>
If you are right Mrs. Variable will stop posting altogether as her world will be perfect. That is if Bollig is not on the roster, and visors are mandatory.</p>
<div>
Trev whether you like it or not... within 10 years, fighting will be banned from the NHL.
I don't agree or want it to happen, but it's coming</p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</p>
</p>
If you are right Mrs. Variable will stop posting altogether as her world will be perfect. That is if Bollig is not on the roster, and visors are mandatory.</p>
LordKOTL
Scratched for Vorobiev
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My favorite teams
Whether or not fighting is banned is not gonna stop fighting. It's still gonna happen and guys are gonna get suspended, but people will still watch it that are bloodthirsty, like myself.</p>
</p>
I think the much bigger player safety issue is guys like Cooke and Torres, not guys like Parros ands Bollig. IMHO you have to solve the former before that latter.</p>
</p>
I think the much bigger player safety issue is guys like Cooke and Torres, not guys like Parros ands Bollig. IMHO you have to solve the former before that latter.</p>
Variable
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<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Trev" data-cid="210350" data-time="1380987578">
<div>
That's a fair argument.
I truly believe that we are in a cultural change though already. While their are still "goons" on the roster, we are seeing those numbers dwindle. Bollig isn't just seen as an enforcer anymore. He's seen as a guy who can play a regular shift in the lineup. The game is evolving and more and more kids coming up are more skilled than the goons were back in the 80s and 90s. We are going to see more players eventually in the molds of Chris Neil an Milan Lucic. Guys who have some skills (not that Neil has a ton) but who are willing to crash and bang.
I'm a fan of old school hockey, but as a coach I also have had to adapt to the new skill philosophy and that's why I respect guys like Downie and Lucic or Clowe and Clarkson. Guys who have the ability to play on the top 6 while also not afraid to pound the shit out of someone when needed.
I'm not a fan of the John Scott's or Mike Browns, but if they have a go then I will watch. Eventually they will be obsolete and fighting will decline but it will never be out of the game completely. It's too much of a high adrenaline fast pace game for it to go away.</p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</p>
I think it's in the middle of a culture change as well, it just moves very slowly. Fighting has become so much of a gimmick that it wouldn't impact the sport negatively if it were gone. It'd still be a fast game, there would be no "momentum" loss from it. It would just open up those roster spots to more skilled players. I'd rather see that. But as I said, it's the bigger picture outside of just the fights themselves, it's the revenge and retribution aspect of it the NHL still hasn't figured out that THEY have to be the enforcer in and not leaving that to the players. That's how guys like Cooke get away with what they do and don't change, no matter how many fights they get into.</p>
</p>
And If Bollig can play more like a skilled player, I wouldn't mind him on the 4th line. It's not like I'm rooting against him, if he can become a better hockey player, maybe like a poor man's version of a guy like Bickell, then all the more power to him. Helps the Hawks out even more, gives them more depth. I hope he does, as long as he apparently has a guaranteed spot on the roster. But my apprehension on him just goes back the playoffs, why would not want to dress your best team out on the ice?</p>
<div>
That's a fair argument.
I truly believe that we are in a cultural change though already. While their are still "goons" on the roster, we are seeing those numbers dwindle. Bollig isn't just seen as an enforcer anymore. He's seen as a guy who can play a regular shift in the lineup. The game is evolving and more and more kids coming up are more skilled than the goons were back in the 80s and 90s. We are going to see more players eventually in the molds of Chris Neil an Milan Lucic. Guys who have some skills (not that Neil has a ton) but who are willing to crash and bang.
I'm a fan of old school hockey, but as a coach I also have had to adapt to the new skill philosophy and that's why I respect guys like Downie and Lucic or Clowe and Clarkson. Guys who have the ability to play on the top 6 while also not afraid to pound the shit out of someone when needed.
I'm not a fan of the John Scott's or Mike Browns, but if they have a go then I will watch. Eventually they will be obsolete and fighting will decline but it will never be out of the game completely. It's too much of a high adrenaline fast pace game for it to go away.</p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</p>
I think it's in the middle of a culture change as well, it just moves very slowly. Fighting has become so much of a gimmick that it wouldn't impact the sport negatively if it were gone. It'd still be a fast game, there would be no "momentum" loss from it. It would just open up those roster spots to more skilled players. I'd rather see that. But as I said, it's the bigger picture outside of just the fights themselves, it's the revenge and retribution aspect of it the NHL still hasn't figured out that THEY have to be the enforcer in and not leaving that to the players. That's how guys like Cooke get away with what they do and don't change, no matter how many fights they get into.</p>
</p>
And If Bollig can play more like a skilled player, I wouldn't mind him on the 4th line. It's not like I'm rooting against him, if he can become a better hockey player, maybe like a poor man's version of a guy like Bickell, then all the more power to him. Helps the Hawks out even more, gives them more depth. I hope he does, as long as he apparently has a guaranteed spot on the roster. But my apprehension on him just goes back the playoffs, why would not want to dress your best team out on the ice?</p>
Shantz My Pants
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<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Variable" data-cid="210370" data-time="1381014849">
But my apprehension on him just goes back the playoffs, why would not want to dress your best team out on the ice?</p></blockquote>
We did dress our best team and won the cup. He also was in the lineup.
But my apprehension on him just goes back the playoffs, why would not want to dress your best team out on the ice?</p></blockquote>
We did dress our best team and won the cup. He also was in the lineup.
Shantz My Pants
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<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="WickedWrister" data-cid="210354" data-time="1380989671">
Trev whether you like it or not... within 10 years, fighting will be banned from the NHL.
I don't agree or want it to happen, but it's coming.</p></blockquote>
You would need the players approval and that will never happen.
Trev whether you like it or not... within 10 years, fighting will be banned from the NHL.
I don't agree or want it to happen, but it's coming.</p></blockquote>
You would need the players approval and that will never happen.
Variable
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<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Trev" data-cid="210372" data-time="1381028094">
<div>
We did dress our best team and won the cup. He also was in the lineup.</p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</p>
Right, when he was scratched and they went to a more skilled, non-traditional 4th line of Kruger, Bolland and Frolik. Turns out they were the line that scored the Cup winning goal as well.</p>
<div>
We did dress our best team and won the cup. He also was in the lineup.</p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</p>
Right, when he was scratched and they went to a more skilled, non-traditional 4th line of Kruger, Bolland and Frolik. Turns out they were the line that scored the Cup winning goal as well.</p>
Variable
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<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Spunky Porkstacker" data-cid="210366" data-time="1381013072">
<div>
If you are right Mrs. Variable will stop posting altogether as her world will be perfect. That is if Bollig is not on the roster, and visors are mandatory.</p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</p>
Or people like you can stop whining about seeing a single differing view on this topic on this site (that I know of anyway) and either grow up or just put me on ignore. I mean, god forbid, I wonder if there was just one other person who agreed with me how many heads would explode over having to....*GASP*.....voluntarily read something like that. </p>
</p>
The horror.....the horror.....</p>
<div>
If you are right Mrs. Variable will stop posting altogether as her world will be perfect. That is if Bollig is not on the roster, and visors are mandatory.</p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</p>
Or people like you can stop whining about seeing a single differing view on this topic on this site (that I know of anyway) and either grow up or just put me on ignore. I mean, god forbid, I wonder if there was just one other person who agreed with me how many heads would explode over having to....*GASP*.....voluntarily read something like that. </p>
</p>
The horror.....the horror.....</p>
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Not whining, just an observation of how you turn a conversation into your own anti-fighting /make visors mandatory vendetta stage . I pretty much do ignore you, but your non stop railing takes over threads all to often. I would guess a substantial portion of your posts cover those subjects. Does Bettman ever reply to your complaints?</p>
</p>
Maybe the players should wear something like this.</p>
</p>
</p>
</p>
Maybe the players should wear something like this.</p>
</p>
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Quick pulled a Huet!</p>
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<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="BiscuitInTheBasket2in17" data-cid="210455" data-time="1381228068">
<div>
Quick pulled a Huet!</p>
</div>
</blockquote>
According to some, that was every Huet goal. And according to others that was every Huet goal.</p>
<div>
Quick pulled a Huet!</p>
</div>
</blockquote>
According to some, that was every Huet goal. And according to others that was every Huet goal.</p>
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<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="MassHavoc" data-cid="210467" data-time="1381258181">
<div>
According to some, that was every Huet goal. And according to others that was every Huet goal.</p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</p>
Huetly correct!</p>
<div>
According to some, that was every Huet goal. And according to others that was every Huet goal.</p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</p>
Huetly correct!</p>
~rabid platypus~
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I just noticed you guys have resurrected the Bulin wall! One of my all time favorite goalies!</p>
CLWolf81
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Holy shit... </p>
</p>
Oh and by the way, this was goal #4 of the game for the 19-yr old kid.... Holy.... </p>
</p>
<div> </div>
<div>
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="BiscuitInTheBasket2in17" data-cid="210455" data-time="1381228068">
<div>
Quick pulled a Huet!</p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</p>
Hip hip, Huet? </p>
</p>
Oh and by the way, this was goal #4 of the game for the 19-yr old kid.... Holy.... </p>
</p>
<div> </div>
<div>
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="BiscuitInTheBasket2in17" data-cid="210455" data-time="1381228068">
<div>
Quick pulled a Huet!</p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</p>
Hip hip, Huet? </p>
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LOL Rangers</p>
- Status
