2021 Cubs trade deadline thread

[TL1961]

But I dont see 1B as a glove first position. It should be a bat first spot.

If Rizzo resigned and Castillanos to LF. I feel that would be a strong start. That has potential of happening.

A bad glove at 1B costs a ton and often without showing up as errors by the 1Bman.

Terrible idea to treat 1B as unimportant defensively. They’re involved in way too many plays to think it’s not important.

It’s easy to overlook because we have had a great glove there and lose sight of how many routine plays are anything but routine.

 

[CSF77]

A bad glove at 1B costs a ton and often without showing up as errors by the 1Bman.

Terrible idea to treat 1B as unimportant defensively. They’re involved in way too many plays to think it’s not important.

It’s easy to overlook because we have had a great glove there and lose sight of how many routine plays are anything but routine.

IDK. There are plenty of arguement against that. Big Hurt. Prince Fielder, Bell on Nats and so on.

That is why you target accuracy in your IF. SS and 2B should be contact hitters that have accurate arms.

Having a plus 1B really means your IF blows and you are paying to lessen the blow.

 

[Diehardfan]

He has to bring down his K% to sustain his success though. Isn't he around 40%?

I'm not saying he's an all-star fixture. Just a guy that can play a bit after bouncing around the minors for years.
You don't find guys like that too often.

 

[knoxville7]

If I’m the cubs, I’m pursuing castellanos and syndegaard in the offseason

adds a big time bat that will hit over .300 with pop. And you get a ace to pitch in front of hendricks in a postseason matchup

 

[TL1961]

IDK. There are plenty of arguement against that. Big Hurt. Prince Fielder, Bell on Nats and so on.

That is why you target accuracy in your IF. SS and 2B should be contact hitters that have accurate arms.

Having a plus 1B really means your IF blows and you are paying to lessen the blow.

What's your argument?
Does Bell's offense outweigh his D by more than a lesser hitter/better defender?

Big Hurt? Yeah, HOF bats probably would be worth playing regardless of D. I wasn't aware Castellanos was the equivalent offensively to the Big Hurt.

Your post makes my point more than it disputes it.

I am not saying there's never a bat worth getting in the lineup! I am simply saying the reasoning that "anyone can play 1st" and "1st base is not important defensively" are wrong.

 

[CSF77]

If I’m the cubs, I’m pursuing castellanos and syndegaard in the offseason

adds a big time bat that will hit over .300 with pop. And you get a ace to pitch in front of hendricks in a postseason matchup

I agree on Castillanos. You can build a team around him like Bryant. Thor oh IDK man. His injury track record is scarry as Rondon. The diffrence is who is healthy now.

This one i could flip flop on for sure. Thor has a rocket for a arm but you never know what he will be after he returns.

This is the thing. He has been delayed in his recovery. Year one you expect a innings limit. So basically he may or may not pitch and if he does it will be in a limited season.

I would put him in the same bubble as Klubber. Have depth in AAA because you will need it.

That is why I was leaning towards Rondon. He was healthy. He had a break out. It is better to invest into a proven product that is in the same box as any MLB pitcher health wise. Vs paying for a arm that you know will be on a limit year 1.

 

[CSF77]

What's your argument?
Does Bell's offense outweigh his D by more than a lesser hitter/better defender?

Big Hurt? Yeah, HOF bats probably would be worth playing regardless of D. I wasn't aware Castellanos was the equivalent offensively to the Big Hurt.

Your post makes my point more than it disputes it.

I am not saying there's never a bat worth getting in the lineup! I am simply saying the reasoning that "anyone can play 1st" and "1st base is not important defensively" are wrong.

I said that he was a 3B first and got moved to RF.

You act like he has never played the IF.

On his value? This year he exploded. wRC+152. 5 years previous low 102 high 129.

In laymans terms .278/.329/.582 and I would guess 25-30 HR per year.

So you are getting .900 OPS per in the investment.

Can he play or not? idk. Never seen him there. He was a 3B until 2017. Been in the OF since then. So can he? Im guessing yes he can field a ground ball and catch a ball. Is tall so a big target. If you have shitty throwers inserted that he has to do highlight reel plays on a constant basis that is the problem of the Manager pushing that type of infielder out there.

Javy is a butcher out there and Rizzo saved his ass far too ma y times to count. How to solve it is putting a accurate thrower(s) in the highest volume spot(s).

Mad sounds like he is meh as a 2B. There for the bat. Nico is solid and a well rounded player. Came up as a SS. I feel pretty good with him there. Wisdom well he will mess up but it seems it is on the transfer more than anything. He needs to work on that aspect in the offseason.


That said. I personally want Freeman, Confronto and Rondon. All 3 are lefties. Cubs have depth in RH bats and RH SP. They need to work on balance and that should be the investments.

If Fredrick resigns then target Rizzo.

Confronto is having a shit year and I can see him taking the QO. He is 29 and it makes se se to bank on himself. But Jed should go there.

Castillanos would be the top LF target then. Keep Heyward in RF trade Happ and retain Ortega.

So the most likely. Castallanos opts out. Jed makes him a strong offer to return. He is 30 next year so I would think 8 years and 25 AAV.

Freddy resigns. Jed offers Rizzo 5/100 with a mutual 6th year. 20 mil is his value right now. Cubs dont have jack in the system there.

45M there. I'm pretty sure Boras will shoot for the moon with Rondon. Sox made their bed by extending Lynn. That was the choice. I see a Q offer. Cubs reset tax so it would cost I believe a 3rd round. Which is nothing when dealing with a TOR. I do believe that 25AAV should be his target payday. Boras will try to target comps in value and set that as a price tag. With his injury history it factors. But this year is a cy young quality effort so that also factors into the pot. End of the day 25AAV is a gauge IMO. 8 years is also a gauge. Cubs dropped payroll and flooded the pipe with talent. I'm not concerned going there with him.

Thor again is the top talent. But teams are going to look at him as injured goods. Stroman should be the top RH arm on the market. 25M AAV should be his comp also. Cubs jyst need a lefty TOR more than a righty ATM. Marquez is still injured and not a proven product. You don't forge ahead on that.

 

[Bust]

If I’m the cubs, I’m pursuing castellanos and syndegaard in the offseason

adds a big time bat that will hit over .300 with pop. And you get a ace to pitch in front of hendricks in a postseason matchup

Cubs do have the cash flow and then some to speed the process. Some key free agent signings with some of the recent trades coming back healthy and/or playing to their expectations?? Winner winner chicken dinner!

 

[Adipost]

RAYS DISCUSSED CREATIVE POSSIBILITIES IN TALKS WITH CUBS FOR KIMBREL AND BRYANT

Ken Rosenthal —

If the low-revenue Rays were going to trade for high-priced players such as Kris Bryant and Craig Kimbrel, they would have needed to be creative, right?

Well, the Rays were creative — or at least, they discussed creative ideas. None of those ideas ultimately came to fruition. But the discussions the Rays held with the Cubs on Bryant and Kimbrel, in separate deals and together, offered a glimpse into how Tampa Bay and many other clubs operate at the trade deadline, when conversations are free flowing and almost every name is in play.

For Bryant alone, the Rays and Cubs talked about a deal that would have sent center fielder Kevin Kiermaier and prospects to Chicago, according to major-league sources. That trade, however, would have been relatively straightforward compared to a bigger deal the teams kicked around for Bryant and Kimbrel — one that centered around injured Rays ace right-hander Tyler Glasnow.

The discussions between the Rays and Cubs extended into Friday, the day of the deadline. In the end, the Cubs parted with Bryant and Kimbrel in separate deals, sending Bryant to the Giants for outfielder Alexander Canario and right-hander Caleb Kilian, and Kimbrel to the White Sox for second baseman Nick Madrigal and right-handed reliever Codi Heuer.

The Rays on July 22 had added nearly $5 million in payroll by acquiring designated hitter Nelson Cruz from the Twins. They received clearance from ownership, sources said, to pursue both Bryant, who was owed nearly $7 million in the final year of his contract, and Kimbrel, who was owed about $5.6 million and can be retained on a $16 million option for 2022. But in both concepts, the Cubs would have assumed financial obligations, too.

Kiermaier, earning $11.17 million this season and $12.17 million next season with a $13 million option or $2.5 million buyout for 2023, is the highest-paid player on the Tampa Bay roster outside of the newly acquired Cruz. By adding him, the Cubs effectively would have been buying prospects from the Rays’ farm system, which The Athletic’s Keith Law ranked before the season as the best in the game.

The Rays value Kiermaier more highly than almost any club, even though since 2018 his adjusted OPS has been 20 percent below league-average. Kiermaier’s defense is so strong, his combined fWAR over those four seasons has been 5.2, and he has been a net positive each year. The Rays, however, have two other center fielders, Manuel Margot and Brett Phillips. By including Kiermaier in the trade for Bryant, they would have cleared the necessary roster spot and eliminated their financial commitment to Kiermaier for the rest of the season and beyond. It is possible such a deal also could have included some type of cash exchange.

Obviously, the prospects the Rays offered along with Kiermaier were not tempting enough for the Cubs to part with Bryant. Sources said that for two-plus months of Bryant, Tampa Bay was unwilling to trade its top young position players — not just shortstop Wander Franco, but also infielder Vidal Bruján, outfielder Josh Lowe and shortstop Taylor Walls — and also right-hander Shane Baz.

Prospects also were a hangup in the proposed Glasnow-for-Bryant/Kimbrel blockbuster. The Cubs, sources said, would have wanted young talent to mitigate the risk of acquiring Glasnow, who is expected to undergo Tommy John surgery. The Rays communicated to the Cubs that surgery was a possibility.

What would have been the point of the Cubs acquiring Glasnow, who will miss all of 2022 if he has the surgery and then be eligible for free agency after ’23, leaving them with only one more season of club control after he returns? For starters, even one year of a proven Glasnow coming off surgery is arguably a better bet than any prospects the Cubs might have acquired. By ’23, the Cubs might be on the rise again with some of the young players who entered their organization in their eight July trades. Also, by getting Glasnow under their control, they would have gained the inside track at signing him to an extension. Glasnow, earning $4 million this season, is eligible for arbitration in ’22 and ’23.

The Cubs, though, knew Glasnow would be unlikely to throw 200 innings in 2023, his first full year back from surgery and, in the end, just were not all that enamored of the idea. The Rays, likewise, did not want to add highly regarded prospects to a deal for two players who would be with them only for the rest of the season.

While the Rays might have picked up Kimbrel’s option for 2022, it would have been only to trade him; it is not in their DNA to pay a closer $16 million. And what would such a trade have looked like? To acquire Kimbrel for two pennant races, the White Sox were willing to part with Madrigal, a former top 100 prospect. But the Reds’ return for one year of Raisel Iglesias last offseason was only reliever Noé Ramirez, whom they released at the end of spring training, and minor-league infielder-outfielder Leonardo Rivas (Ramirez went back to the Angels before resurfacing with the Diamondbacks, and has a 2.40 ERA in 15 innings since joining that team in June).

Cruz, acquired from the Twins for pitching prospects Joe Ryan and Drew Strotman, turned out to be the Rays’ biggest addition during trading season. Their two deals on deadline day — for reliever Shawn Armstrong from the Orioles, and outfielder Jordan Luplow and reliever DJ Johnson from the Indians — were mostly for depth.

A trade for Bryant and/or Kimbrel would have shocked the industry, but both players went to teams with greater resources for conventional prospect packages. Going outside the box took the Rays only so far. Maybe next time they will venture even further.

Rosenthal: Rays discussed creative possibilities in talks with Cubs for Kris Bryant and Craig Kimbrel

 

[TL1961]

"I would build a team around Castellanos" at 1B, while adding "I have no idea whether he can play 1B"
and
"Javy is a butcher out there"

?

 

[SilenceS]

Sometimes, this board is unreadable. lol

 

[TL1961]

Another column on the prospects the Cubs acquired, for those who subscribe to The Athletic.

Scouting the Cubs' new prospects from their trade deadline sell-off: 'I’m excited about what’s in store'

 

[CSF77]

"I would build a team around Castellanos" at 1B, while adding "I have no idea whether he can play 1B"
and
"Javy is a butcher out there"

?

Could you immagine Wisdom at 1B with Javy firing scuds there. Rizzo reduced his error count by 1/2.

Addi was the better SS. Messed up his arm and lost velocity. But when it came down to making the clean play he handled his business.

Javy has range and great tags. Strong arm. But how many times did you see it hitting the chest? Few, as Rizzo was doing helmet tags and other yoga poses every day.

No wonder why he gained weight. I would start drinking after every game of adventure grab.

 

[Discus fish salesman]

But it depends.

My first target would be Rondon. Boras will pump his deal so I would expect 8/200 TBH.

2nd target is adding a core hitter.

Line up now

Ortega CF
Mad 2B
Happ LF
Contreras C
Wisdom 1B
Heyward RF
Bote 3B
Hoerner SS.

You want to replace both Bote and Happ.

Replacing both with LH bats balances the line up.

Ortega
Mad
Freeman
Contreras
Confronto
Wisdom
Heyward
Hoerner

So ya I could see it. Freddy push 6/150 and Confronto 8/160

I wouldnt go higher with them. The main dump should be Rondon. He makes the Cubs a division contender with youth filtering in.

I'm still glad we didn't get rodon