2022 Playoffs First round: Bulls vs. Bucks (IST)

[Chicago4Life]

without ball to setup easy looks its going to be an ugly series... lavine throws up some horrible shots and derozan also has his moments of i can do it all myself and when it doesnt go down it starts looking really bad. vuce is a massive liability on defense and so he has to score efficiently to offset his poor defense. White should be traded after this season as he is simply a poor man's ben gordon

 

[Enasic]

And that’s the question…is it billy, or is it Demar refusing to not get his 20+ shots a game?

cuz its not like this is the first year of demars career where he’s been ISO Demar. So is it billy and every other coach Demar has had? Or does some of the blame fall on demar for making sure he’s always getting his?

Demar deserves criticism for his putrid game but we have a seasons worth of evidence showing the Bulls do not feed Vuc in the post and work the offense through him when it’s working. Is BD not capable of coaching and getting his players to listen? It’s either he’s not telling the team to do it, or the team is not listening to him. It’s one of those two things….and it’s not all Demar who’s not even the PG….no one is running the offense through Vuc when he gets it going, which makes me think it’s BD being obtuse

 

[clonetrooper264]

Bulls also had Coby White guarding him, giving him way too much space and leaving him wide open a lot. Milwaukee missed him a bunch of times wide open as Jrue or Middleton were driving to the hoop instead where Bulls got defensive stops. So I see that getting addressed in game tape and Milwaukee will make an adjustment to that. Connaughton will start to nail those with ease if he gets the ball that open again.

We don't really have a Connaughton, but I noticed DeMar force stuff while having guys wide open for threes as well. Though in DeMar's case, he may know these guys won't make it the way they've been shooting lately.

The Bulls defense after the 1st Q was actually fairly good for them. Still, a lot of open threes were there and the switches are still murdering the Bulls.

Bucks will adjust, Bulls will not. So we should expect the Bucks to shoot 40% from 3 in game 2 while the Bulls continue to toil at 30%. 20 point blowouts from here on out. Derozan could drop 50 on 80% shooting in game 2 it shall not matter.

 

[Scoot26]

Bucks will adjust, Bulls will not. So we should expect the Bucks to shoot 40% from 3 in game 2 while the Bulls continue to toil at 30%. 20 point blowouts from here on out. Derozan could drop 50 on 80% shooting in game 2 it shall not matter.

There's the pessimistic Clone I know very well!

 

[clonetrooper264]

There's the pessimistic Clone I know very well!

They must prove me wrong. When they took the lead last night I simply said FOOL'S HOPE! And look what happened

 

[knoxville7]

Demar deserves criticism for his putrid game but we have a seasons worth of evidence showing the Bulls do not feed Vuc in the post and work the offense through him when it’s working. Is BD not capable of coaching and getting his players to listen? It’s either he’s not telling the team to do it, or the team is not listening to him. It’s one of those two things….and it’s not all Demar who’s not even the PG….no one is running the offense through Vuc when he gets it going, which makes me think it’s BD being obtuse

Well, I think you pointed out the problem currently with the bulls is they don’t have a PG that distributes the ball where it needs to be. It’s one reason why they miss Lonzo so much. Instead, it’s alot of Zach and Demar running things…with Caruso occasionally doing so.

in regards to Demar, I’ll reiterate…this isn’t the first instance where he’s been an offensive black hole in the playoffs. So to put that on BD and say he can’t get players to listen to him, well maybe it’s an issue of getting Demar to listen to his coaches...as again, there’s history of this occurring with him on other teams.

 

[Enasic]

Well, I think you pointed out the problem currently with the bulls is they don’t have a PG that distributes the ball where it needs to be. It’s one reason why they miss Lonzo so much. Instead, it’s alot of Zach and Demar running things…with Caruso occasionally doing so.

in regards to Demar, I’ll reiterate…this isn’t the first instance where he’s been an offensive black hole in the playoffs. So to put that on BD and say he can’t get players to listen to him, well maybe it’s an issue of getting Demar to listen to his coaches...as again, there’s history of this occurring with him on other teams.

Without being in the huddle none of us could say for sure, but it’s pretty obvious the game plan is not to run the offense through Vuc…and when he gets it going and if BD does want to feed him in the post and work inside out but allows the team (Demar) to not follow the game plan, he’s a bigger dope than I think he is. You get the players to listen to you or sub them out…but again, I don’t think that’s BDs game plan anyways.

If it was, you would see LaVine, Ayo, Caruso trying to implement it and/or Vuc actually posting up. It’s not like he’s getting post position and guys are just missing him. He’s being used in the high pick and roll because that’s what the game plan is.

 

[knoxville7]

Without being in the huddle none of us could say for sure, but it’s pretty obvious the game plan is not to run the offense through Vuc…and when he gets it going and if BD does want to feed him in the post and work inside out but allows the team (Demar) to not follow the game plan, he’s a bigger dope than I think he is. You get the players to listen to you or sub them out…but again, I don’t think that’s BDs game plan anyways.

If it was, you would see LaVine, Ayo, Caruso trying to implement it and/or Vuc actually posting up. It’s not like he’s getting post position and guys are just missing him. He’s being used in the high pick and roll because that’s what the game plan is.

I actually saw Vuc in the post quite a bit early in the game and in the 3rd quarter

Personally, I think part of the problem is Vuc likes shooting 3’s. He’s just not that good at it. I mean, he took 10 threes last night, and I understand your concern is that that happens due to BD coaching it that way with high pick and rolls. Even with high pick and rolls all game long, there’s no way Vuc should be taking 10 threes in a game…especially when he isn’t hitting them.

I’m not absolving BD from any blame, I’m just saying there’s a lot more problems to it all than just BD won’t put Vuc in the post…it ain’t that simple


Also, not sure how it makes BD a bigger dope if demar isn’t listening to him. What should BD do? Bench him?! Yeah, that’ll happen never

 

[Enasic]

I actually saw Vuc in the post quite a bit early in the game and in the 3rd quarter

Personally, I think part of the problem is Vuc likes shooting 3’s. He’s just not that good at it. I mean, he took 10 threes last night, and I understand your concern is that that happens due to BD coaching it that way with high pick and rolls. Even with high pick and rolls all game long, there’s no way Vuc should be taking 10 threes in a game…especially when he isn’t hitting them.

I’m not absolving BD from any blame, I’m just saying there’s a lot more problems to it all than just BD won’t put Vuc in the post…it ain’t that simple


Also, not sure how it makes BD a bigger dope if demar isn’t listening to him. What should BD do? Bench him?! Yeah, that’ll happen never

Vuc should absolutely not be taking 10 3s a game lol…agreed.

And you’re right, there’s more problems than just BD. The team is low IQ and have no identity. As for BD/Demar….IF Demar isn’t following the game plan and is stinking it up, then yes, you bench him. No one is above the team. If BD is telling Demar or anyone else to run a play and they don’t do it while hurting the team, you sub them out.

 

[clonetrooper264]

I actually saw Vuc in the post quite a bit early in the game and in the 3rd quarter

Personally, I think part of the problem is Vuc likes shooting 3’s. He’s just not that good at it. I mean, he took 10 threes last night, and I understand your concern is that that happens due to BD coaching it that way with high pick and rolls. Even with high pick and rolls all game long, there’s no way Vuc should be taking 10 threes in a game…especially when he isn’t hitting them.

I’m not absolving BD from any blame, I’m just saying there’s a lot more problems to it all than just BD won’t put Vuc in the post…it ain’t that simple

Vuc shoots 3s because he's used to making them at a higher clip. I imagine BD also runs those plays for him for the same reason. Recall somehow this guy shot 40% from 3 last year. This is actually his worst season shooting the 3 with volume since 2017-18.

From a shooter's POV I get it, maybe you're off in a game but the only way to break a shooting slump is to keep shooting. Let us also recall no one else on the team could hit a 3 anyway, heck no one else in the game. That said, making Vuc shoot so much from 3 on pick and pops really takes away from his strengths around the basket. In theory this is one place where he should be able to get an advantage...but of course we saw him blow a layup so what do we know.

 

[Enasic]

Vuc shoots 3s because he's used to making them at a higher clip. I imagine BD also runs those plays for him for the same reason. Recall somehow this guy shot 40% from 3 last year. This is actually his worst season shooting the 3 with volume since 2017-18.

From a shooter's POV I get it, maybe you're off in a game but the only way to break a shooting slump is to keep shooting. Let us also recall no one else on the team could hit a 3 anyway, heck no one else in the game. That said, making Vuc shoot so much from 3 on pick and pops really takes away from his strengths around the basket. In theory this is one place where he should be able to get an advantage...but of course we saw him blow a layup so what do we know.

The missed layup sums up the bulls….they do something right and get back in the game, and then a boneheaded decision or missed/bad shot takes them out of it. They’re just not a good team…and why as a 7 footer you don’t dunk the ball right under the rim is beyond me. Vuc should literally always convert right under the basket with no contest. Dunk the fucking ball…especially in that situation.

 

[knoxville7]

Vuc shoots 3s because he's used to making them at a higher clip. I imagine BD also runs those plays for him for the same reason. Recall somehow this guy shot 40% from 3 last year. This is actually his worst season shooting the 3 with volume since 2017-18.

From a shooter's POV I get it, maybe you're off in a game but the only way to break a shooting slump is to keep shooting. Let us also recall no one else on the team could hit a 3 anyway, heck no one else in the game. That said, making Vuc shoot so much from 3 on pick and pops really takes away from his strengths around the basket. In theory this is one place where he should be able to get an advantage...but of course we saw him blow a layup so what do we know.

From a shooters point of view, I don’t get it…continuing to chuck up 3’s that you aren’t making makes no sense. From a shooters point of view, when you’re not making shots…you go to the rim and get an easy layup or get fouled and make a free throw…see an easy one go through the basket. It helps shooters to do that a lot more than to just keep hoisting them from outside

i also don’t see where Vuc is used to making them at a higher clip. He had 1 season where he hit 40% but that looks like an outlier compared to all his other seasons where he’s right around 34%. This season at 31% is slightly down, but not really out of the margin of error. I stand by he has no business shooting 3’s really…he should avg like maybe 2 attempts per game at most

 

[clonetrooper264]

From a shooters point of view, I don’t get it…continuing to chuck up 3’s that you aren’t making makes no sense. From a shooters point of view, when you’re not making shots…you go to the rim and get an easy layup or get fouled and make a free throw…see an easy one go through the basket. It helps shooters to do that a lot more than to just keep hoisting them from outside

i also don’t see where Vuc is used to making them at a higher clip. He had 1 season where he hit 40% but that looks like an outlier compared to all his other seasons where he’s right around 34%. This season at 31% is slightly down, but not really out of the margin of error. I stand by he has no business shooting 3’s really…he should avg like maybe 2 attempts per game at most

If you're one of the shooters on your team and you're missing your teammates will tell you to keep shooting so long as you're open. It's been that way on all levels. Of course yes you should ideally also try to see an easy shot go down, and in fairness there was a portion of the game where Vuc was hitting on 2s. Free throws would be great, but Vuc is absolutely terrible at drawing fouls so don't get your hopes up there.

I won't argue about Vuc shooting less 3s, I also think he should shoot less 3s, I'm just trying to say it's not abnormal behavior for someone who is going to be shooting with volume (2s or 3s for that matter) to keep shooting regardless of the outcome. Take it one step further, since people love to say "pass the ball if you can't hit anything", the whole team couldn't hit anything, so who are you going to pass to?

 

[knoxville7]

If you're one of the shooters on your team and you're missing your teammates will tell you to keep shooting so long as you're open. It's been that way on all levels. Of course yes you should ideally also try to see an easy shot go down, and in fairness there was a portion of the game where Vuc was hitting on 2s. Free throws would be great, but Vuc is absolutely terrible at drawing fouls so don't get your hopes up there.

I won't argue about Vuc shooting less 3s, I also think he should shoot less 3s, I'm just trying to say it's not abnormal behavior for someone who is going to be shooting with volume (2s or 3s for that matter) to keep shooting regardless of the outcome. Take it one step further, since people love to say "pass the ball if you can't hit anything", the whole team couldn't hit anything, so who are you going to pass to?

That’s great that teammates are encouraging. That doesn’t mean they are saying to keep shooting outside shots when you’re constantly missing them. Everyone knows, when you’re struggling to shoot, you take it to the basket to see one go in. That’s in general, not Vuc specific.

im not one of the people saying everyone that is missing shots should just pass the ball. Never said anything of the sort. Because yes, as everyone has noted…nobody was making shots last night. That’s all the more reason guys should take it to the rim like I’ve actually been claiming. Bulls got crushed in the paint last night. Bucks weren’t hitting outside shots either, but they made sure to pound it inside and dominate the paint still. That’s what winning teams do when their shots are off

 

[clonetrooper264]

That’s great that teammates are encouraging. That doesn’t mean they are saying to keep shooting outside shots when you’re constantly missing them. Everyone knows, when you’re struggling to shoot, you take it to the basket to see one go in. That’s in general, not Vuc specific.

im not one of the people saying everyone that is missing shots should just pass the ball. Never said anything of the sort. Because yes, as everyone has noted…nobody was making shots last night. That’s all the more reason guys should take it to the rim like I’ve actually been claiming. Bulls got crushed in the paint last night. Bucks weren’t hitting outside shots either, but they made sure to pound it inside and dominate the paint still. That’s what winning teams do when their shots are off

Just saying don't expect drastic changes. The game plan seems to be to have Vuc shooting lots 3s from the top of the key off pick and pops rather than trying to score in the paint all the time. Although if you want to be technical about it, most of Vuc's shot attempts were at the rim (27 shots - 10 3s - 3 midrange = 14 shots in the paint). You're not wrong in terms of the paint, Bucks were a +10 there compared to the Bulls. I couldn't say how much of that is just because of missed shots. We all know DeRozan is gonna jack up 15 midrangers a game so most of those won't count as points in the paint. Shooting bad from 3 is probably going to be a thing in this series, but Bulls couldn't hit a shot from anywhere...frankly I'm not sure if that's going to change much either.

 

[knoxville7]

Just saying don't expect drastic changes. The game plan seems to be to have Vuc shooting lots 3s from the top of the key off pick and pops rather than trying to score in the paint all the time. Although if you want to be technical about it, most of Vuc's shot attempts were at the rim (27 shots - 10 3s - 3 midrange = 14 shots in the paint). You're not wrong in terms of the paint, Bucks were a +10 there compared to the Bulls. I couldn't say how much of that is just because of missed shots. We all know DeRozan is gonna jack up 15 midrangers a game so most of those won't count as points in the paint. Shooting bad from 3 is probably going to be a thing in this series, but Bulls couldn't hit a shot from anywhere...frankly I'm not sure if that's going to change much either.

I mean you can be technical if you want, but that ratio is still super fucked…a 7 to 5 paint vs 3’s ratio ain’t good for a 7 footer.

You are correct to not expect to see much change in this series, no doubt about that.

 

[clonetrooper264]

I mean you can be technical if you want, but that ratio is still super fucked…a 7 to 5 paint vs 3’s ratio ain’t good for a 7 footer.

You are correct to not expect to see much change in this series, no doubt about that.

Eh, if he was Lauri Markkanen or Kevin Love you wouldn't bat an eyelash at that ratio. Or if he hit 2 more of those 3s. I didn't see all the attempts, but if those are open 3s should he just swing the ball to the other side? Barrel into the paint and maybe get called for a charge? On a night where the top 2 options weren't hitting anything you needed Vuc to try to step up...he did try. And for all the complaints of taking too many perimeter shots where's the same complaint of DeMar not driving to the rim more or Zach also taking 10 3s?

I guess my point is, it's not because Vuc took a lot of 3s that the Bulls lost the game. It's because no one, Vuc included, could make a shot when it mattered. This was their best chance to win a game. Bucks will not turn the ball over 21 times or shoot just as bad as the Bulls from 3 again.

 

[knoxville7]

Eh, if he was Lauri Markkanen or Kevin Love you wouldn't bat an eyelash at that ratio. Or if he hit 2 more of those 3s. I didn't see all the attempts, but if those are open 3s should he just swing the ball to the other side? Barrel into the paint and maybe get called for a charge? On a night where the top 2 options weren't hitting anything you needed Vuc to try to step up...he did try. And for all the complaints of taking too many perimeter shots where's the same complaint of DeMar not driving to the rim more or Zach also taking 10 3s?

I guess my point is, it's not because Vuc took a lot of 3s that the Bulls lost the game. It's because no one, Vuc included, could make a shot when it mattered. This was their best chance to win a game. Bucks will not turn the ball over 21 times or shoot just as bad as the Bulls from 3 again.

Lol you act as if the only thing that Vuc could do to “try” is to hoist 3’s…it’s not. It’s not as if other options are all negative ones

And I already have been critiquing demar and even Zach. That said, if there’s 1 person to not complain about taking 10 three pointers in one game, it’s ZL. He actually hits his at a high rate for his career, unlike Vuc or Demar

And yes, I’d absolutely complain about Lauri and even Love taking 10 three pointers in a game where they are missing them especially

 

[clonetrooper264]

Lol you act as if the only thing that Vuc could do to “try” is to hoist 3’s…it’s not. It’s not as if other options are all negative ones

And I already have been critiquing demar and even Zach. That said, if there’s 1 person to not complain about taking 10 three pointers in one game, it’s ZL. He actually hits his at a high rate for his career, unlike Vuc or Demar

And yes, I’d absolutely complain about Lauri and even Love taking 10 three pointers in a game where they are missing them especially

I am not at all. I have pointed out that Vuc shot plenty of shots around the rim in addition to his 10 3s. I have also said that I would like Vuc to shoot less 3s. It's well documented

Why the double standard though? Zach was 2/10 just like Vuc. Does the same logic not apply? If you're gonna complain about someone not hitting from 3 yet still taking lots of 3s, what does it matter who it is?

 

[knoxville7]

I am not at all. I have pointed out that Vuc shot plenty of shots around the rim in addition to his 10 3s. I have also said that I would like Vuc to shoot less 3s. It's well documented

Why the double standard though? Zach was 2/10 just like Vuc. Does the same logic not apply? If you're gonna complain about someone not hitting from 3 yet still taking lots of 3s, what does it matter who it is?

Lol yeah and again, that 7 to 5 ratio is shitty. Just because he took more paint shots than 3’s, doesn’t mean he had good shot selection

You really don’t understand the concept of “body of work?” Like you really don’t think there is a difference if it’s ZL, Vuc, or fricking Tony Bradley shooting 10 three pointers, just because they are missing them?!

It’s called a track record. ZL has the history and statistics to back up him shooting a ton of 3’s. Yes, he had a bad shooting night, but if there’s 1 guy on the team that can shoot himself out of it from 3, it’s ZL. and I said I had complaints about his play as well. There’s no double standard here.

Like if the bulls need a dunk, I’m not asking Matt Thomas to go do it, I’d rather have DJJ or ZL dunk. But I guess that’s a double standard??

Like now you’re just being silly