2b 2018

[SilenceS]

Lol this thread. Rizzo is the ultimate consistency. His stats are straight consistent with us borderline MVP and top 3 first baseman. He trains with Votto.


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[anotheridiot]

How about just Javy at 2B?

 

[chibears55]

Bumped this up..
Just wondering if anyone opinion changed..
Mine hasnt

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[TC in Mississippi]

To me it has to be Javy. The defense up the middle is too important for it to be Happ. It's possible that they'll need to trade for a pitcher though using Baez as an asset. In that case you might need to sign someone.

 

[Diehardfan]

To me it has to be Javy. The defense up the middle is too important for it to be Happ. It's possible that they'll need to trade for a pitcher though using Baez as an asset. In that case you might need to sign someone.

When was the last time Happ even started a game at second? They're treating him like an outfielder these days....maybe looking for him to be a replacement down the road for Zobrist.

 

[TC in Mississippi]

When was the last time Happ even started a game at second? They're treating him like an outfielder these days....maybe looking for him to be a replacement down the road for Zobrist.

Been awhile. They know he's not the answer up the middle. I only mentioned him because chibears55 said he had not changed his mind and he had said Happ originally.

 

[chibears55]

When was the last time Happ even started a game at second? They're treating him like an outfielder these days....maybe looking for him to be a replacement down the road for Zobrist.

He was playing a lot of 2B in June but since July he been mostly in CF..
But I think that has a lot to do with Zobrist coming back from injury , ben been playing 2B mostly since July.

Baez been kinda going back n forth between 2B and SS..

I think Happ is much better at 2B then OF...

My preference would be to limit Zobrist to PH and occasional starts and just go with Happ Baez and Russell if their ok with Happ play in CF..

But I think their either going to finally go with Almora in CF or find a leadoff hitting CFer and trade 1 of the 3 of Happ Russell or Baez..

I just think they might prefer Happ steady defense at 2B and hitting approach over Baez flashy defense and erratic hitting approach.

Russell, even though I prefer Baez over him..mainly because I just like him better.. I think the same reason as keeping Happ over Baez applies here..

I think Epstein and Hoyer are going to be losing some sleep over this decision in Off season if they decide to trade one of them

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[Diehardfan]

Been awhile. They know he's not the answer up the middle. I only mentioned him because chibears55 said he had not changed his mind and he had said Happ originally.

I have to agree. I really like the up the middle defense of Contreras, Russell, Baez and Almora....unfortunately, a couple of those guys need some work offensively. Almora needs to work on hitting righty's better while we all know of Baez's trials and tribulations with pitches off the outside of the plate. Russell needs some work as well on his throws....he can just thank his lucky stars for Rizzo at first.

This is not a perfect team by any stretch...of course, I don't think there's ever been one of those.

 

[beckdawg]

I get why people like Baez's defense but for him to stay a starter i need to see way more out of his bat consistently. It's frustrating for me to see him get so much playing time at 2B and Almora rarely play in CF because from a defensive perspective I feel both have similar value. But from a bat perspective Almora is not only hitting better but he often does the small things like getting bunts down and sacrificing guys home very well.

 

[TC in Mississippi]

I get why people like Baez's defense but for him to stay a starter i need to see way more out of his bat consistently. It's frustrating for me to see him get so much playing time at 2B and Almora rarely play in CF because from a defensive perspective I feel both have similar value. But from a bat perspective Almora is not only hitting better but he often does the small things like getting bunts down and sacrificing guys home very well.

I get that, I guess I still think he'll get there and I don't Happ is good enough to at 2B everyday Of course I'm not convinced that Baez won't go in a deal for starting pitching either this winter and their are a couple of FA possibilities. I don't think they'll pay Neil Walker what's he's likely looking for but he's a possibility, even if I'm not wild about that thought. Eric Sogard is a possibility but obviously in the his case he's not a full time player so it would be as part of a mix with Happ and clearly the defense would suffer from Baez overall. So best case is that Baez improves and stays there but it's not the only choice.

 

[beckdawg]

I get that, I guess I still think he'll get there and I don't Happ is good enough to at 2B everyday Of course I'm not convinced that Baez won't go in a deal for starting pitching either this winter and their are a couple of FA possibilities. I don't think they'll pay Neil Walker what's he's likely looking for but he's a possibility, even if I'm not wild about that thought. Eric Sogard is a possibility but obviously in the his case he's not a full time player so it would be as part of a mix with Happ and clearly the defense would suffer from Baez overall. So best case is that Baez improves and stays there but it's not the only choice.

Metrics suggest Happ is better than you would expect at 2B. He's 2 DRS and 6.8 UZR/50 over 124.1 Innings. Conversely they don't like him in CF at -1 and -18.7 UZR/150 over 256.1 innings. The other problem with Happ in the OF is if you're not using him long term in CF which seems likely given the metrics then it's tough for him because his arm isn't very good. So if you're playing him in the OF ideally you're looking at LF which competes with Schwarber.

Overall he's never going to be Baez at 2B but you're talking about Happ at 111 wRC+ vs 85 wRC+ on Baez's career. That's a 26% swing in their offense and honestly it's probably more than that given this is Happ's first season and you'd expect improvement where as Baez is over 1000 PAs so he might improve but at this point it's going to take a major change rather than just minor adjustments.

So for my money what I would do is use a Zobrist/Happ at 2B combo and a Schwarber/Happ LF combo.

 

[anotheridiot]

Zobrist has his handshake deal with Maddon about playing time. He is considered the 2b man, next year is his last no trade year, so its Zobrist again. Happ is the next Zobrist and will bounce all over the field for the next 4 years and they still wont give Javy a position either.

People put Baez on the scale like he is not earning his 10 million dollar contract, he is a barely over league minimum guy.

 

[CSF77]

The turn around in July has mostly been attested to Contreras hitting in the 4. He has put up a 1.019 OPS with 7 HR and 19 RBI's.

That has been the major change. The rest of the line up has been up and down.

If they had to construct the best line up right now it would be Jay leading off. . .441 OBA. Bryant .398 OBA then Rizzo .933 OPS. Contreras 1.019 and Schwarber .940 hitting #5.

Baez and Happ follow in OPS. Now this is July which is honestly for the most part the turn around. So Almora, Happ, Baez, Russell, and Zobrist all have been lesser factors in this run.

 

[chibears55]

I get that, I guess I still think he'll get there and I don't Happ is good enough to at 2B everyday Of course I'm not convinced that Baez won't go in a deal for starting pitching either this winter and their are a couple of FA possibilities. I don't think they'll pay Neil Walker what's he's likely looking for but he's a possibility, even if I'm not wild about that thought. Eric Sogard is a possibility but obviously in the his case he's not a full time player so it would be as part of a mix with Happ and clearly the defense would suffer from Baez overall. So best case is that Baez improves and stays there but it's not the only choice.

I'd be very surprise if they signed a FA position player as a starter for any position but CF if they don't stick with Almora there..

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[CSF77]

The team lacks a legit lead off. I believe that they will end up targeting that in the off season.

 

[TC in Mississippi]

I'd be very surprise if they signed a FA position player as a starter for any position but CF if they don't stick with Almora there..

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CF is not really an option as there are exactly zero CF up for FA in 2018, or rather there are none who would make sense unless you like Lorenzo Cain who is more reputation than good player, particularly in the last two years. He's only had one year with an OPS over .800 and two years with a wRC+ over 105, plus he'll be 32 next year. They might need to get creative and I kind of agree with CSF77 that they need to target a leadoff hitter, although I'm not positive they think that.

 

[JP Hochbaum]

With being a perennial playoff team our players are going to age quickly and need rest. playing 3-25 games extra a year is going to take its toll and having a glut of position talent is a great thing to have. It woudl be silly to not use Happ as the Zobrist type and keep Russell and Baez. Keep people fresh all year and we have a huge advantage.

 

[chibears55]

With being a perennial playoff team our players are going to age quickly and need rest. playing 3-25 games extra a year is going to take its toll and having a glut of position talent is a great thing to have. It woudl be silly to not use Happ as the Zobrist type and keep Russell and Baez. Keep people fresh all year and we have a huge advantage.

As long as Maddon is manager they will continue doing just that..
Just with different players

I just think they might move on from Baez, who could probably net them a needed player or pitcher..
He still young in age and deserves a chance to start and play everyday, if not with cubs then another team...

Zobrist has 2 yrs. left.. I'm hoping he starts to see less playing time and whoever ends up at 2B (Baez or Happ) gets to start majority of games next year



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[CSF77]

As long as Maddon is manager they will continue doing just that..
Just with different players

I just think they might move on from Baez, who could probably net them a needed player or pitcher..
He still young in age and deserves a chance to start and play everyday, if not with cubs then another team...

Zobrist has 2 yrs. left.. I'm hoping he starts to see less playing time and whoever ends up at 2B (Baez or Happ) gets to start majority of games next year



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I'm almost ready to say it should be Russell. His O took a huge step back but he has strong trade value.

2B should go to Happ every day. .809 OPS and can bash from both sides.
SS Baez: .788 OPS
CF: Can upgrade here to get a legit lead off.

I'm thinking that they can promote Young who can cover every spot except C and P (so far) while adding a good contact bat. Then keep Zobrist off the bench to keep him fresh. Honestly he is past his prime. .226/.315/.372 He really doesn't deserve to be starting over Baez or Happ right now. This is 100% Joe doling out undeserved PT.

But that would free up Almora and Russell as trade bait.


Line up:

CF:
3B: Bryant
1B: Rizzo
C: Contreras
LF: Schwarber
2B: Happ
RF: Heyward
SS: Baez

Bench: Young/Zobrist/Caratini/(maybe Hannemann/not sold on him but brings speed)(Andreoli as another OF, again brings speed from the right side.)

 

[beckdawg]

I'm almost ready to say it should be Russell. His O took a huge step back

He's hitting .270/.312/.493 since the start of June. People need to relax when a guy has a bad month or so. Also the guy is 23. Most players don't peak until they are 27. That's 4 years from now. And what do you mean huge step back? If you want to argue he hasn't taken a step forward ok but last year he hit .238/.321/.417. This year he's hitting .241/.305/.417. Literally the only difference is a 2% variance in his walk rate.