4 Trade Scenarios that could work...

[Lefty]

I hate to be the one to tell you this...

but you didn't prove that the Bulls could be better than Miami if they made that trade.

Miami would be better on offense, defense, and rebounding.

But (most importantly to you) the Heat would still be better on offense.

Therefore your own logic fails you in your argument that the Bulls should make that trade.

No, it doesn't. The Bulls would be better-equipped for a playoff run with Melo more so than without him (i.e. what you want to do). What I have just shown proves what I have said all along and, more importantly, shows that sticking with Noah and this roster doesn't get them closer to the Championship, while going after him does. But thanks for playing.

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

Lefty's logic:

Let's sacrifice ANY chance of winning a championship

just because it MIGHT get you a couple more victories in the Playoffs.

Brilliant.

And PS -

Better scoring = more winning, it's that simple!

 

[pinkizdead]

But (most importantly to you) the Heat would still be better on offense.

Therefore your own logic fails you in your argument that the Bulls should make that trade.

offense wins championships. anyone who tells you otherwise, is nostalgic for the 'golden days'.

you need defense, but 3 really good offensive players wins champsionships. you can always get another perkins.

 

[TheStig]

Financially, Chicago is screwed if we pay 'Melo the max. Even if Chicago had a line-up of Nene-Boozer-Melo-Brewer-Rose, Miami would still likely rock them. But a more realistic line-up is Dampier-Boozer-Melo-Brewer-Rose. The Bulls can find a 3rd and 4th team as well to try to make the trade work.

And the Bulls aren't trying to impress Melo. They are trying to impress Denver. Melo has no control over where he goes. No matter what deal the Bulls offer for Melo, Melo is going to know that the team he has the best chance of winning with is the Bulls - so that is a non-issue.

Why would we be screwed? They might be better today but outside of the MLE we'd have far more assests to improve. If we traded Noah, we'd still have the bobcat pick and draft picks plus lower salary as Boozer is a few mill under what the trio makes and Rose is still on a rookie deal and be going into a lower max and Asik is a decent prospect. I'd say we'd have a better chance of upgrading or acquiring that next piece.

 

[TheStig]

If Melo says screw the NJ deal and won't sign an extension (if it gets re-hashed), DEN is screwed unless they take whatever deal the Bulls will offer them.

You keep saying that but I don't know if I'd take Deng on with Gibson and a couple of picks, let alone when trading a franchise player. Deng is a net negative, bad deal, injury history and not a big impact player. Our offer is weak and they are going to rebuild. I doubt Deng is someone they want to rebuild around. Anthony just screwed them, if he came out with these around the draft, he'd probably be in NY or Chicago back when both teams had cap space to give to Denver.

 

[TheStig]

offense wins championships. anyone who tells you otherwise, is nostalgic for the 'golden days'.

you need defense, but 3 really good offensive players wins champsionships. you can always get another perkins.

I agree if your are discusing back court defense. But front court defense is still very important to a championsip team. Look at the Magic. Nelson is an ok defender, VC could care less, Lewis isn't very good and because of Howard, they are top 5 defensively. Front court defense matters and Noah is a good piece but a top 10 player is a trump card. I'd personally be willing to take Melo and roll the dice with Asik and the bobcats pick becoming a decent center and making a run at some of the guys like chandler, dalemburt and pryzbilla next summer.

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

Why would we be screwed? They might be better today but outside of the MLE we'd have far more assests to improve. If we traded Noah, we'd still have the bobcat pick and draft picks plus lower salary as Boozer is a few mill under what the trio makes and Rose is still on a rookie deal and be going into a lower max and Asik is a decent prospect. I'd say we'd have a better chance of upgrading or acquiring that next piece.

Even if it worked out swimmingly, just the way you described, depending on draft picks is always a risk. And even if the Bulls' got a good piece in the draft that could serve as a great starting center for years to come... realistically, the Bulls still likely not be competitive with Miami. I suppose it is possible... but keeping Noah would be ideal right now. Some people (Lefty and FT) seem to think he is a one-dimensional rebounder, but he's more than that.

I believe the Bulls' best chance to become a Championship contender is to hope that Melo refutes a NJ deal by not agreeing to a sign-and-trade. That would essentially put the Bulls as at the advantage when it comes to going after 'Melo. Does New York have a better package to offer than Deng-Gibson-Johnson-picks? I don't believe so.

 

[TheStig]

Even if it worked out swimmingly, just the way you described, depending on draft picks is always a risk. And even if the Bulls' got a good piece in the draft that could serve as a great starting center for years to come... realistically, the Bulls still likely not be competitive with Miami. I suppose it is possible... but keeping Noah would be ideal right now. Some people (Lefty and FT) seem to think he is a one-dimensional rebounder, but he's more than that.

I believe the Bulls' best chance to become a Championship contender is to hope that Melo refutes a NJ deal by not agreeing to a sign-and-trade. That would essentially put the Bulls as at the advantage when it comes to going after 'Melo. Does New York have a better package to offer than Deng-Gibson-Johnson-picks? I don't believe so.

Thats a pretty poor logic. There are maybe 3 teams that can compete with Miami right now. Getting Melo for Noah and Deng puts us closer to that. You'd basically be relying on Wade slowing down (which with his lack of an outside shot and reliance on athleticism isn't too unlikely). With Rose on the upswing and Wade heading down, the gap would close. Draft picks don't have to just be used in the draft, between our unguarnteed deals in the future and picks, we could certainly update.

That hasn't worked out in the past. You have to jump at the chance at consildating talent and your not gonna get better than Melo. He isn't one dimensional and the defense will suffer but in the long run we will be better. A platoon of Dampier, Asik, Gibosn and Thomas would give us enough looks and matchups to make it interesting.

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

Thats a pretty poor logic. There are maybe 3 teams that can compete with Miami right now. Getting Melo for Noah and Deng puts us closer to that. You'd basically be relying on Wade slowing down (which with his lack of an outside shot and reliance on athleticism isn't too unlikely). With Rose on the upswing and Wade heading down, the gap would close. Draft picks don't have to just be used in the draft, between our unguarnteed deals in the future and picks, we could certainly update.

That hasn't worked out in the past. You have to jump at the chance at consildating talent and your not gonna get better than Melo. He isn't one dimensional and the defense will suffer but in the long run we will be better. A platoon of Dampier, Asik, Gibosn and Thomas would give us enough looks and matchups to make it interesting.

Depending on any member of Miami's trio to slow down may not be the way to go. Wade has had a severe shoulder injury... sure. But all 3 of those guys are still in their mid-to-late 20's. By the time their contracts expire in about 2016 or '17... they will still likely all be close to what they are now.

I think I like the idea of dumping Luol Deng for an expiring contract over getting rid of Joakim Noah. Noah has plenty of upside... he is getting better on offense, and is already up there when it comes to interior defense.

For now, I really think the Bulls should hope for a miracle trade. It doesn't seem that far-fetched. If Denver is willing to do Deng and Noah for Melo, then maybe they can accept a deal headlined by Deng and Gibson.

If nothing else, the Bulls will walk away with a young, yet veteran team next season... all players have room to improve. Best case: Noah-Boozer-Anthony-Brewer-Rose.

 

[TheStig]

Depending on any member of Miami's trio to slow down may not be the way to go. Wade has had a severe shoulder injury... sure. But all 3 of those guys are still in their mid-to-late 20's. By the time their contracts expire in about 2016 or '17... they will still likely all be close to what they are now.

I think I like the idea of dumping Luol Deng for an expiring contract over getting rid of Joakim Noah. Noah has plenty of upside... he is getting better on offense, and is already up there when it comes to interior defense.

For now, I really think the Bulls should hope for a miracle trade. It doesn't seem that far-fetched. If Denver is willing to do Deng and Noah for Melo, then maybe they can accept a deal headlined by Deng and Gibson.

If nothing else, the Bulls will walk away with a young, yet veteran team next season... all players have room to improve. Best case: Noah-Boozer-Anthony-Brewer-Rose.

I think the gap between our proposed Big 3 and theirs will close as time goes on. Rose is improving and Wade will begin slowing down. Wade isn't going to be what he is now after 6 years.

Miricale trades are nice but we have been playing that angle for the whole time pax has been here. It hasn't gotten us anywhere.

I just think between Gibson, unguarnteed deals and picks, we will be able to do something to shore up the center spot. I also think even after the trade, we have more depth.

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

I respect your opinion, and I'll grant you that it's a tough dilemma. If it were up to me, I'd probably rather stick with what the Bulls have now... and yeah, hope that miracle angle pays off.

 

[Lefty]

Let's sacrifice ANY chance of winning a championship

I want you to try something for me. Just for one day, one whole day, I want you to argue/debate/speak/assert, whatever, without using fallacious construction of arguments/facts presented to you. I know it might be hard, and I know I'm asking a lot, but just try it.

It is obvious that you just spin your wheels whenever faced with arguments/data you don't understand, because even a simplistic understanding of the term "correlation" would not yield this type of response to what I posted. Drink the Kool-Aid all you want, but when you get to the point where you are dismissing studies and facts as "opinion" and twisting the conclusions of those facts and studies any which way you can in an attempt to garner favor with yourself or others (which you are doing), it's time to take a break.

just because it MIGHT get you a couple more victories in the Playoffs.

Brilliant.

You just implied that the Bulls should not try to explore avenues that give them a better chance of winning more games in the playoffs. How is anyone supposed to take you seriously?

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

Keep pretending like you know what you are talking about, Lefty.

There's an inverse correlation between the amount of posts you make and the quality of the average post on this message board.

 

[Lefty]

Perhaps, but correlation does not necessarily mean causation. I have thought through the statistics and correlations I have given (an everyman's regression analysis, if you will), whereas you, undoubtedly, have not.

And yeah, with the studies and the research and all that, I'm just "pretending" to know what I'm talking about. They're all just "opinions" that I try to mask as fact with tangible numbers and real graphs of data you can look up yourself. Yep, totally just "pretending".

 

[Lefty]

I mean Jesus, your dunderheadedness here is akin to going up to a physicist and saying "prove to me that time stops when you reach the speed of light."

Then, when he replies "well, we can't really do that, because we can't go the speed of light, but we can show you that time slows down as you go faster and faster, as evidenced by clocks kept on space stations and extremely accurate clocks placed atop high towers", you scream "HAH, nerd, you didn't prove that time stops at the speed of light, keep pretending like you know science" and run off. This is exactly the same, and just as stupid.

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

Fact or Opinion:

The Bulls should trade Joakim Noah and Luol Deng for Carmelo Anthony/

 

[waldo7239117]

Fact or Opinion:

The Bulls should trade Joakim Noah and Luol Deng for Carmelo Anthony/

The Bulls would....but they won't because Melo would want Noah on the team.

 

[Lefty]

Fact or Opinion:

The Bulls should trade Joakim Noah and Luol Deng for Carmelo Anthony/

Fact. Because, as we have seen:

1) Melo would add scoring to the team, and scoring is worth more (as far as winning games goes) than anything else.

2) Adding a prolific scorer like Melo would also increase the likelihood of the Bulls doing well in the playoffs, because it has been demonstrated that 1) scoring means more to the team in the regular season (better seed) and 2) scoring correlates nicely with playoff success and explains more of it than rebounding and/or defense.

3) The Bulls would be better off financially if they were able to get the production of Melo in return for being out from under the contracts of Luol Deng and Joakim Noah (even assuming a meager extension), as their combined salaries will certainly be more than Anthony's salary in any of the next 4-5 years.

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

Fact.

Fail.

It's called an opinion.

Go back to the 2nd grade.

Thanks.

 

[Lefty]

Fail.

It's called an opinion.

Go back to the 2nd grade.

Thanks.

No, you nitwit, when I have numbers and graphs and correlations, that's FACT. Jesus Christ you are dense. And you really write about sports? And like, tell other people to read your stuff and listen to what you have to say? Holy shit.