5th Best Pen in MLB so far

[kleenexbox]

What the Cubs need is another Mark Grace. Great defensemen, hits for average and RBIs, and decent power.

That's exactly the type of players you need to win games and championships. Not one-dimesional, power hitters.

Why are you using average and RBI like those stats actually matter?

 

[Tyler Juranovich]

Geovany Soto, Kerry Wood, Carlos Zambrano, Tyler Colvin, Darwin Barney, Carlos Marmol, Sean Marshall, Andrew Cashner. All came through the Cubs system. Soto, Wood, Z, Marmol, and Sean Marshall all have had extended success.

Yeah, Matt Garza and his 1.57 FIP(2), 11.69 K/9(1), .2 HR/9(6), 2.05 xFIP(1), and 4.46 K/BB(6) have really sucked. Totally man. This is all while he has had a .388 BABIP, the highest of any starter. Not to mention, he's also in the top 10 in tERA. So yeah, he really sucks.

Hmmm... since when does Batting Average have anything to do with power? And using just HRs to evaluate power? Nice. Because HRs are the only form of power.

Wood never became the pitcher who could win more than 14 games. Soto is never going to repeat his rookie year and he's a terrible defensive catcher. Colvin is almost in his 30s and isn't the 'all star' fans were calling him to be. Marshall is a mediocre pitcher at best and was never the lefty starter pitcher we hoped he would be.

 

[kleenexbox]

Wood never became the pitcher who could win more than 14 games. Soto is never going to repeat his rookie year and he's a terrible defensive catcher. Colvin is almost in his 30s and isn't the 'all star' fans were calling him to be. Marshall is a mediocre pitcher at best and was never the lefty starter pitcher we hoped he would be.

I can't tell if this post is serious or not.

 

[Tyler Juranovich]

How is Garza unproven? He's been in the majors since 2006. Also, please don't throw his W-L record at me. He's pitched well enough to win in almost all of his starts.

Pena is a legit power hitter. How can you possibly dispute that? And one good year? Pena has had more than one good year. And please stop ignoring the fact that he has drawn the second most walks on the team behind Fuk.

Pena had a bad month but it looks like he is really starting to turn it around.

Pena is a career .239 hitter and his stats have been going down ever since the 2007 season. He's getting paid $5million to bat low .200 in while he may be past his prime. The Cubs have one of the highest payrolls of any team and is hasn't gotten them anywhere. It's time to stop wasting money on players past their prime.

 

[Jntg4]

Geovany Soto, Kerry Wood, Carlos Zambrano, Tyler Colvin, Darwin Barney, Carlos Marmol, Sean Marshall, Andrew Cashner. All came through the Cubs system. Soto, Wood, Z, Marmol, and Sean Marshall all have had extended success.

Yeah, Matt Garza and his 1.57 FIP(2), 11.69 K/9(1), .2 HR/9(6), 2.05 xFIP(1), and 4.46 K/BB(6) have really sucked. Totally man. This is all while he has had a .388 BABIP, the highest of any starter. Not to mention, he's also in the top 10 in tERA. So yeah, he really sucks.

Hmmm... since when does Batting Average have anything to do with power? And using just HRs to evaluate power? Nice. Because HRs are the only form of power.

That list looks like it is missing one big piece. You have some international signings there, but I think you are forgetting a guy named Starlin Castro.

Go Castro!

Really, screw it, the Cubs should become the Chicago Castros.

But ya, adding Castro makes an even better argument.

 

[Tyler Juranovich]

How many championships did Grace win with the Cubs?

He has better stats and gold gloves then any player currently on the Cubs can say. He's a 3 time All Star and a 4 time gold glover with a career batting average of .303 and 2,445 career hits.

You're telling me you want more players like that?

 

[Tyler Juranovich]

I can't tell if this post is serious or not.

What has you confused?

 

[Captain Obvious]

Wood never became the pitcher who could win more than 14 games. Soto is never going to repeat his rookie year and he's a terrible defensive catcher. Colvin is almost in his 30s and isn't the 'all star' fans were calling him to be. Marshall is a mediocre pitcher at best and was never the lefty starter pitcher we hoped he would be.

What do wins have to do with it? Wins obviously don't show how well a pitcher pitched. It's probably because the Cubs' offense fucking sucks. Wins are dependent on the offense and defense, too. Soto isn't going to repeat his rookie year? Ummm, apparently you misssed last year. Because he most certainly did repeat his rookie year last year.

Since when is 25 "almost 30?" Who called for him to be an all-star. If they thought he would be an all-star they were stupid. Plain and simple. Marshall is only one of the best relievers in baseball. Really all of this is you setting your hopes to high and that's not my problem. Just because you set your hopes too high, don't know the difference between 25 and 30, and don't know how to tell if a player is good or not, doesn't change the fact that the Cubs' farm system has produced talent that has seen success at the MLB level.

 

[Tyler Juranovich]

That list looks like it is missing one big piece. You have some international signings there, but I think you are forgetting a guy named Starlin Castro.

Go Castro!

Really, screw it, the Cubs should become the Chicago Castros.

But ya, adding Castro makes an even better argument.

I'll admit that the Cubs have a potentially amazing player on their hands with Castro. He's doing very well this season, and I do hope he can continue that. But as we're seeing, one good player doesn't cut it in the MLB. They need more players like that. Cubs have only 2 starters who are batting over .300. The batters just aren't clutch.

 

[kleenexbox]

What has you confused?

Pretty much everything. First off, Colvin is 25 years old. That's not even close to 30. Soto last year had a better year than his rookie year and was arguably the best offensive catcher in the game.

What kind of starter did you expect Marshall to be? Right now he's a pretty damn good setup man.

 

[Tyler Juranovich]

What do wins have to do with it? Wins obviously don't show how well a pitcher pitched. It's probably because the Cubs' offense fucking sucks. Wins are dependent on the offense and defense, too. Soto isn't going to repeat his rookie year? Ummm, apparently you misssed last year. Because he most certainly did repeat his rookie year last year.

Since when is 25 "almost 30?" Who called for him to be an all-star. If they thought he would be an all-star they were stupid. Plain and simple. Marshall is only one of the best relievers in baseball. Really all of this is you setting your hopes to high and that's not my problem. Just because you set your hopes too high, don't know the difference between 25 and 30, and don't know how to tell if a player is good or not, doesn't change the fact that the Cubs' farm system has produced talent that has seen success at the MLB level.

I don't have any high hopes for the Cubs. I never do because they never give me any reason to have high hopes. It the same "chokers" every season.

 

[Captain Obvious]

Pena is a career .239 hitter and his stats have been going down ever since the 2007 season. He's getting paid $5million to bat low .200 in while he may be past his prime. The Cubs have one of the highest payrolls of any team and is hasn't gotten them anywhere. It's time to stop wasting money on players past their prime.

What does batting average have to do with power? The answer is nothing. So stop using it to evaluate Pena, who is a POWER hitter.

Also, it's 5 million dollars. That's not a lot of money and certainly isn't a waste.

 

[Tyler Juranovich]

Pretty much everything. First off, Colvin is 25 years old. That's not even close to 30. Soto last year had a better year than his rookie year and was arguably the best offensive catcher in the game.

What kind of starter did you expect Marshall to be? Right now he's a pretty damn good setup man.

I'd rather have a defensive catcher every day than an offensive one. Someone like Molina from St. Louis. I did overestimate Colvin's age, but he's not going to get any better. He has shown no definite signs to show me otherwise.c

 

[Tyler Juranovich]

What does batting average have to do with power? The answer is nothing. So stop using it to evaluate Pena, who is a POWER hitter.

Also, it's 5 million dollars. That's not a lot of money and certainly isn't a waste.

It is when the player isn't producing. Ok, I wont use average. His home run rate has shown a declining trend since 2007. Last season was his worst.

 

[AddisonStation]

Pena is a career .239 hitter and his stats have been going down ever since the 2007 season. He's getting paid $5million to bat low .200 in while he may be past his prime. The Cubs have one of the highest payrolls of any team and is hasn't gotten them anywhere. It's time to stop wasting money on players past their prime.

First of all, you really need to stop using BA as your gauge. Ya, Pena has always had a low average but he ALWAYS has a very good OBP which makes his BA very acceptable when you factor in his power numbers. Pena could turn out to be a huge bust for the Cubs but if he gets on track with his power, which he as in May he will be a huge reason for any success the Cubs have.

If you're going to hate on Pena thats fine but don't ignore the things he does well.

Secondly, if you're suggesting that the Cubs should stop spending money you are wacko. There is no doubt that they cannot keep giving players dumb contracts but they still need to spend money. Spend it if you have it.

He has better stats and gold gloves then any player currently on the Cubs can say. He's a 3 time All Star and a 4 time gold glover with a career batting average of .303 and 2,445 career hits.

You're telling me you want more players like that?

I was mostly kidding about him. I loved Grace.

 

[Captain Obvious]

I don't have any high hopes for the Cubs. I never do because they never give me any reason to have high hopes. It the same "chokers" every season.

If you don't have high hopes for the Cubs then why are you going on and on about how players weren't what they were "supposed" to be?

I'd rather have a defensive catcher every day than an offensive one. Someone like Molina from St. Louis. I did overestimate Colvin's age, but he's not going to get any better. He has shown no definite signs to show me otherwise.c

You'd rather have Koyie Hill than Geovany Soto? Really?

Who said he will get better? Who even said he is an all-star. He's had success at the MLB level and he came from our system. That's ALL I'm saying.

I'll admit that the Cubs have a potentially amazing player on their hands with Castro. He's doing very well this season, and I do hope he can continue that. But as we're seeing, one good player doesn't cut it in the MLB. They need more players like that. Cubs have only 2 starters who are batting over .300. The batters just aren't clutch.

What does regular BA have to do with being clutch? Enlighten me.

 

[AddisonStation]

I'd rather have a defensive catcher every day than an offensive one. Someone like Molina from St. Louis. I did overestimate Colvin's age, but he's not going to get any better. He has shown no definite signs to show me otherwise.c

That's not true for me. Any time you can get good offensive production from a low production position you jump on that in two seconds.

 

[Captain Obvious]

It is when the player isn't producing. Ok, I wont use average. His home run rate has shown a declining trend since 2007. Last season was his worst.

No, last season wasn't his worst. I'm not sure where you are getting your information, but he had a HR/FB rate of 21% last year. While yes, he is declining, that's what happens when players get old. It doesn't mean he can't still play.

His defense alone is worth about 5 million dollars.

 

[Tyler Juranovich]

If you don't have high hopes for the Cubs then why are you going on and on about how players weren't what they were "supposed" to be?



You'd rather have Koyie Hill than Geovany Soto? Really?

Who said he will get better? Who even said he is an all-star. He's had success at the MLB level and he came from our system. That's ALL I'm saying.



What does regular BA have to do with being clutch? Enlighten me.

I am just sick of teams using the same formula when it obviously doesn't work.

 

[Captain Obvious]

I am just sick of teams using the same formula when it obviously doesn't work.

What formula?