[A] Dead Locked: CHI 2, VAN 3

[Ton]

What worked in the Cup run may not work now. Good coaches adapt to the NHL and the style it turns over year in and out.

 

[Pez68]

Here's the problem with the "defensive system" the Hawks appear to be running. It's been figured out. It's ineffective. It's not fucking working. Look at the GAA for all the proof you need. The Hawks give up way too many goals off of shots from the point. Whether they go in because of a screen, are tipped in, or give up a rebound that goes into the back of the net. The Hawks get absolutely dominated by other teams and their cycling game.



Hawk wingers collapse way too low. Instead of being out around the top of the circles, cutting off the passes back to the defense, they're often down near the faceoff circle. Every time an opposing forward comes up out of the corner, a Hawk winger collapses, the puck is cycled back to the point, and a scoring chance is given up. It's like the Hawks are playing a passive box at even strength... Those defensemen cannot be left unattended shift after shift, game after game. You watch other teams play the Hawks, and very rarely are Hawk defensemen given time to catch a pass and walk in for a shot on goal. It happens 10-15 times a game against them.



As a winger, you cover the opposing defenseman at the point until there's a loose puck along the boards, or until your team gains possession. You only collapse if there's a good chance of coming up with the puck and starting a breakout. Collapsing any time an opposing forward comes out above your goal line leads to what we see game in and game out. Chinese fire drill in the defensive zone.

 

[Pez68]

I'm sorry when was Q being the inconsistent sophomore goalie at any point of this season?



Nope, but it's Q that keeps trotting Crawford out there when Emery has been better almost the entire season. Did he not do the same thing the last two seasons, with Huet and Turco? Sure did.



When was Q playing center because management didn't do a good enough job to fill that hole and still haven't?



Mayers has been fine at 4C all season long. Kruger can play 3C. Is there a reason Q hasn't stuck Bolland with Hossa at 2C and left him there? Is Hossa, one of the best 2-way wingers in the NHL, not good enough defensively to pull shutdown duty and produce at the same time? Give me a fucking break. Hey, Pavel Datsyuk, despite being a ridiculous offensive talent, is played in a shutdown role against other team's top lines. Despite being the Wings' 1C. IMAGINE THAT!



When was Q playing 30 minutes a game on the blueline because there isn't enough depth to take some of those minutes? Lepisto and O'Donell have been lifre savours haven't they? That's Q's fault that one.



Q is the one dressing Scott and NOT PLAYING HIM. He's also the one that hasn't given Lepisto any opportunity whatsover. Q is also the one that continues to break up Keith and Seabrook, and pair Leddy with Keith, when it's obvious they are the best defensive pairing the Hawks have.



Must be mad at Q for creating a LW hole also and getting the best out of Stalberg while most gave up on him early in the season.



Brouwer was constantly in Q's doghouse, most of the time for no apparent reason. The fact that Q had demoted Brouwer to the 4th line had a lot to do with him being moved. The writing was on the wall. While Stalberg has done well, Bickell has sucked ass. He gets credit for getting the best out of Stalberg, then he gets credit for not being able to motivate one of the Hawks' biggest forwards up front. Anyone else noticing a trend with Hawks' big forwards struggling with inconsistency and playing physically? That's not on the coach though? I'm in the camp that thinks it is.



Must be mad at Q for trying to fill the center hole by playing Kane there while Bowman sat on his fingers through the offseason and beyond doing little to help that situation. But he did bring in another RWer which the team really didn't have a major need for. Oh and that RWer is still slow and has bottomed out to the 4th line.



I recall Q trying to smash Brunette into the top six in the beginning of the season like a square peg into a round hole. Even though ANYONE that has watched him play even a single game over the last few seasons knew he didn't have the speed to do so. He finally figured out that Brunette is a PP specialist, brought here to help clean up garbage in front of the net, and put him on the fourth line where he belongs. More mismanagement of players.



Management must be mad at Q for resigning Frolik and now watching the amazing output there.

Is that Q being too stuborn to send Kruger to the farm for proper conditioning and north american ice experience? Or Q having false hope that a guy who has was never drafted in the NHL nor has played a full NHL season would be the saving grace for center depth? And who is now being played on the Wing because the team had to make room for an over the hill center that was just aquired?



Is there a reason Q insists on saddling Bolland with horseshit linemates all season, and rookies, when he is obviously the second best center on this team? Kruger is more than capable of playing a shutdown center role while he matures physically, but Q refuses to do so. Again, last night, with MORRISON as 2C, and Kruger playing wing? More player mismanagement. Frolik on the 4th line, with Bickell in the press box? Yeah, that makes sense too. Kind of like playing Stalberg and Pisani on the 4th line.



pfffff pretty exhausting listening to the coach get all the finger pointing when Bowman hasn't exactly done the greatest job himself and hasn't made things easier on Q. Bowmans messing around with this team a whole lot himself and his antics are getting just as tiresome.

 

[the canadian dream]

Good points Pez but you forget a key thing. Bowman has his fingers on coaching decisions also. Don't think for a second it's all Q at work with these decisions. We are dealing with GM egos here and they can be a real ***** some times. And Bowmans have big fucking egos...don't be fooled.



Bolland has deserved 2nd line duties from day one of this season. I really don't think it's all Q **** blocking that from happening. Look who is getting weird ice time and positioning on this team and it becomes clear they are all Bowman guys and aquisitions. Hmmmmmm..interesting how that works isn't it?



Good points on the defensive system also. I can agree with most of that. Team probably does have to adjust better now that teams know what to expect. Players have to take some responsibility there also. I keep seeing the players look for an outlet pass out of our own zone when they have clear skating paths. That's not a coach telling them to always look for the stretch pass etc..that's poor puck decisions by the players themselves. I think Q allows enough space for these guys to do their own creative things out there I don't think he has them by a leash like many of you like to think. Players can be faulted too sometimes for bad decision making.

 

[Pez68]

If Q is letting Stan dictate his nightly roster, line combos, and where to slot players in the lineup that HE MAKES, then he's a bigger failure than I give him credit for. You really think with how much time Q has spent coaching in the NHL that he is taking orders from the "rookie" GM on where to play guys? Come on.



There's a reason Q was never able to win with all the talent he had with other teams. He's not much more than an average coach.The misuse of players, goalie decisions, constant line juggling, and obsession with line matching are well known complaints regardless of where he has coached.

 

[the canadian dream]

Where is this myth that Q has never won with the other teams come from? That's simply not true. None of those Blues teams he coached were as talented or as deep as these Hawk teams and he did pretty damn well with them. Nor were those Avs teams at the time when he coached them.



He has coached 13 years guess how many times his teams have missed the playoffs? 1 time. That's amazing actually. How many coaches can say that? He has NEVER coached a season where he had a losing record. Never!! Again how many coaches can say that? Only 2 times has his teams finished lower than 4th in the division and only once has his teams finished 3rd. Out of the 2 times his teams have finished 4th in the division only once did that team not make the playoffs.



He has taken his teams 3 times to conference finals, 8 times to the second round, and one Cup. Show me the list of NHL coaches with that type of resume. Absolute bs Q never coached winning teams. Also the bulk of teams he has lost to in the playoffs have gone onto either win the cup or play in the final.



You guys are smoking crack if you think Q has never been a good coach with the other teams. Honestly Pez that's crack smoking. He has Hall Of Fame coaching stats. Everyone praises Stan Bowmans coaching record...guess who played a part in bringing Q onto this team? One of the greatest coaches of all time. There has to be said something about that.







I don't love Q but you guys spew nonsense about him that stats and his history as a coach say otherwise. There is waaaaaay to much focus and attention from us fans on the coach of this team picking away at every mistake he makes and making him the scapegoat for almost every loss this team amounts (which isn't many). Spinning everything so the finger points at Q. It's nonsense. I guess I am the only one that has the balls sometimes to question this teams GM and some of his decisions so far. Not saying he hasn't made some good moves but he has also made some questionable ones. For every good move there has probably been 2 really questionable ones.

And yes GM's do influence lines and ice time. They always have and always will. Burke is notorious for it as was Fletcher and Bobby Clark (who was just a **** up in that department). Don't get me started on Sather and Brian Murray. [font=arial, sans-serif]the list can go on and on. Im not saying they sit together in a dark room and make lines together but the influence is def always there. Coaches these days work for the GM. That's why GM's never get fired when they should anymore and the coach gets the axe. We have seen about 3 examples of this already this season around the league.[/font]​

[font=arial, sans-serif]Why the **** is my font being all fucked up. IHN is fucking haunted.[/font]​

P.S. When Q plays O'Donell or Lepsito the same shit happens when he plays Scott. It's not playing Scott that effects our blueline.​

 

[Pez68]

Look at the talent he had in Colorado TCD. Those teams were chronic underachievers, and the fans wanted him gone for two seasons before it happened. They missed the playoffs with Sakic, Stastny, Wolski, Hejduk, Brunette in his prime, Liles.... all healthy. They MISSED THE PLAYOFFS with that roster. They never finished higher than 7th, with all that firepower? Their PP struggled, with all that firepower?



Look at the teams he coached in St. Louis, and they made it to the conference finals ONCE. With Pronger and Macinnis on the blue line the entire time. Bounced in the first round several times. Had a team with Macinnis, Pronger, Demitra, Tkachuk, Turgeon that won the President's Trophy, and then got knocked out in the first round.



The complaints about him have been the same since St. Louis. He doesn't manage his goaltenders well. Check. He line juggles way too much. Check. His PP sucks(Colorado). Check. His teams often show up for one period, and disappear. Check. He plays favorites. Check. He cannot adjust during the game. Check. His defensive system sucks. Check. The team often gives up 3rd period leads, because they try to go into prevent and stop attacking. CHECK. Andrew Brunette apparently had issues with him in Colorado too. The players there were very vocal about the constant line juggling and inablity to develop chemistry because of it.



All of these complaints, you can find in regards to coaching St. Louis, Colorado, and now Chicago. He is an average coach. He has the record he has, because he has never had to coach a bad team. He has ALWAYS had talent to work with.

 

[Maiden]

The last sentence of your post reminds me of Mike Keenan

 

[R K]

If Keith deflects that pass it is 2 on 1 the other way. You tend to gamble a tad more in OT with nothing to lose.

They made the play and they win; if we make a play and go back the other way maybe we win.

Stop throwing reason in there damnit. Our defense blows ass.

 

[R K]

If Q is letting Stan dictate his nightly roster, line combos, and where to slot players in the lineup that HE MAKES, then he's a bigger failure than I give him credit for. You really think with how much time Q has spent coaching in the NHL that he is taking orders from the "rookie" GM on where to play guys? Come on.



There's a reason Q was never able to win with all the talent he had with other teams. He's not much more than an average coach.The misuse of players, goalie decisions, constant line juggling, and obsession with line matching are well known complaints regardless of where he has coached.

Every GM in the league has input on where and how players are slotted from time to time. Every single one of them.

 

[R K]

The last sentence of your post reminds me of Mike Keenan

Didn't he win a Cup too? I'm foggy.



Also someone give Pez a hug. Jako show him your mangina.

 

[Rex]

that NYR team was stacked to high hell though.



Plus, they had Steve Larmer

 

[LordKOTL]

...

Q's fine and this team is good. Bowamn needs to make proper tweeks. We will see what sort of tweek Morrison is once he actually plays more than one game. We will see if he has anything else up his sleeves. If not this is still a cup contending team with the defensive system they play. The offense is still there and there always seems to be a gret energy with this team in the playoffs which counters some holes and gaffs.

Not fully agreeing on Q being fine. Not because of a defensive breakdown leading to the O/T goal, because quite frankly That thread the needle pass was either brilliant or lucky. The reason why Q was NOT fine was him going to a 5 d-man rotation so early in the game. Scott was not playing bad at all, nor did he seem too slow or too out of position. He wasn't the second coming of Gordie Howe, but let's be honest: His play was FAR better than that of O'donnel's the previous game, and yet O'donnel didn't ride the pine.



I think many of us could care less if Scott pooed on Q's dat or what, but right now he has IMHO shown that he tends to be the most consistant in slot 6. There was no reason Q shouldn't have utilized him agianst Vancouver's 3rd or 4th lines, and gave the top-4 more time to catch a breath.

 

[Tater]

Not fully agreeing on Q being fine. Not because of a defensive breakdown leading to the O/T goal, because quite frankly That thread the needle pass was either brilliant or lucky. The reason why Q was NOT fine was him going to a 5 d-man rotation so early in the game. Scott was not playing bad at all, nor did he seem too slow or too out of position. He wasn't the second coming of Gordie Howe, but let's be honest: His play was FAR better than that of O'donnel's the previous game, and yet O'donnel didn't ride the pine.



I think many of us could care less if Scott pooed on Q's dat or what, but right now he has IMHO shown that he tends to be the most consistant in slot 6. There was no reason Q shouldn't have utilized him agianst Vancouver's 3rd or 4th lines, and gave the top-4 more time to catch a breath.

This x2.

 

[R K]

that NYR team was stacked to high hell though.



Plus, they had Steve Larmer

The Chicago team was pretty stacked too, although the Pitt's team was REALLY stacked. I thought it was because they had Eddio O...

 

[bierboy]

... Crawford has to get his stick on and not let through the crease

BINGO....we NEVER see Crow do that. I see plenty of other netminders do it...

 

[Ton]

Again, unless Crawford could have picked it out of the air, no chance he would have gotten his stick on it. Besides, Keith was already covering the lane, what more could have Crawford done? For the record, Crawford's stick was in proper position. It wouldn't have mattered unless one of them picked the pass out of mid-air. It was a perfect sauce.



The only chance the Hawks had stopping that play is if Kane or Bolland would have picked up D. Sedin and placed a body on him to disrupt him or get a stick on his stick.



TJD is right, Kane floated right behind D. Sedin as he headed straight for the net. If he isn't going to bust his ass to beat him there, then Bolland needs to have his head on a swivel so he's aware that someone is coming through the slot, an area he was covering. At that point, Kane was covering no one, not the points, not his man, he was floating and hoping the Sedins wouldn't connect so he could pick up the puck and head the other way... no doubt about that. Bolland, Seabs, and Keith were all mesmerized by the one Sedin--forgetting about the other.

 

[xatruio]

As TCD elaborated, Q is a good coach and Bolland usually does have his head on a swivel, hes only behind Toews for best defensive forward we have (if not better?) Shit, it was OT we got a point at least--these things happen like RK said before, too; beat by a fucking ridiculously good needle threading from the twins. Sucks, especially from the knuckleheads, but meh.



Onto the Oil.

 

[Pez68]

Marian Hossa says hello. As much as I like Bolland, he's not on Hossa's level. If there's a better defensive RW in hockey, I don't know who it is. He's not even close to Toews, either.

 

[xatruio]

i forgot to mention i was referring to centers in my ind, but typed forward ha. Obviously hossa is amazing defensively.