A "Deng-Noah for Anthony" vs "No-trade" Comparison...

[RamiTheBullsFan]

Here's Team A:
1- Rose
2- Brewer, Watson, Bogans
3- Deng, Korver, Johnson
4- Boozer, Gibson
5- Noah, Thomas, Asik

Here's Team B:
1- Rose
2- Brewer, Watson, Bogans
3- Anthony, Korver, Johnson
4- Boozer, Gibson
5- Thomas, Asik

which of these teams would win (if we had to match-up clone Rose's, Boozer's, and Brewer's) in that best-of-seven game series?

Team A? or Team B?

 

[Scoot26]

Uh..To me both would lose at some point.

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

Uh..To me both would lose at some point.

I meant it as in a head-to-head match-up between the 2 teams... thus the clone remark.

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

Better yet, here's Team C.

This team occurs if the Bulls re-sign Noah, and sign Anthony next summer:

1- Rose
2- Brewer, Watson (1)
3- Anthony, Deng, Korver (2), Johnson
4- Boozer, Gibson
5- Noah, Asik

Sure, that team would eventually end up paying luxury tax out of their ass, but that's a team that could win MULTIPLE championships.

It's possible too

HoopsHype - NBA Salaries - Chicago Bulls

for 2011-12, it is very possible that they could squeeze in a Noah extension, AND fit in a max contract for Anthony. If the Bulls managed to re-sign Noah (as a restricted free-agent next summer), their pay-roll would be at about $43,500,000-$45,500,000. That would leave about $13,000,000-$16,000,000 to spend on Anthony's first year contract with the Bulls. Of course, it all depends on the salary cap (to-be-announced in about 10 months). It tends to increase over time... I'm not sure if the union agreements will result in it decreasing. But this year it was at (I think) $59,000,000.

 

[Crystallas]

We wouldn't be eligible to sign Anthony in the summer LOL, no cap space for the pimp

Theoretical D team.
1- Rose,
2- Brewer, Watson, Bogans
3- Anthony, Korver, Johnson
4- Boozer, Thomas
5- Noah, Asik

Going with your A-B and my D team, and just generalizing off paper, for what this team could potentially do. At first glace(just going to use the top playoff contenders)....

If nobody is injured or gets injured at and through the series.
Miami - A 60/40 in Miami's favor. B 65/35 in Miami's favor. D 65/35 in our favor.
Boston - A 55/45 Boston. B 50/50. D 70/30 in our favor.
Orlando - A 50/50. B 60/40 Orlando. D 60/40 us.
Atlanta - A 55/45 us. B 50/50. D. 70/30 us.
Milwaukee - A 55/45 us. B 60/40 us. C 75/25 us.

But this is a tired attempt to solve a theoretical question LOL.... I'll prolly change my best guess in the morning.

 

[Lefty]

Better yet, here's Team C.

This team occurs if the Bulls re-sign Noah, and sign Anthony next summer:

1- Rose
2- Brewer, Watson (1)
3- Anthony, Deng, Korver (2), Johnson
4- Boozer, Gibson
5- Noah, Asik

Sure, that team would eventually end up paying luxury tax out of their ass, but that's a team that could win MULTIPLE championships.

It's possible too

HoopsHype - NBA Salaries - Chicago Bulls

for 2011-12, it is very possible that they could squeeze in a Noah extension, AND fit in a max contract for Anthony. If the Bulls managed to re-sign Noah (as a restricted free-agent next summer), their pay-roll would be at about $43,500,000-$45,500,000. That would leave about $13,000,000-$16,000,000 to spend on Anthony's first year contract with the Bulls. Of course, it all depends on the salary cap (to-be-announced in about 10 months). It tends to increase over time... I'm not sure if the union agreements will result in it decreasing. But this year it was at (I think) $59,000,000.

The cap stands at $58 million for this year, and cap growth has stagnated for the last four years, actually going down $1 million for 09-10, and only going up $0.3 million this year. So let's be generous and say the cap goes up (it could very well go down) $1 million for 11-12 to $59 million.

In order for your range of first year salaries for Melo to be even feasible, the Bulls would have to hope Noah accepts their minimum QO before any other teams sign him to an offer sheet, and in the case a team does decide to try to pick him up, the Bulls don't have the benefit of Arenas Provision to keep the other team's offer down. This is to say nothing of the problems associated with 1) Noah's escalating salary in the extension the Bulls sign him to, 2) if he accepts the QO, dealing with him as an unrestricted FA after 2011-12 and 3) matching offer sheets if Noah makes it that far.

So yeah, if Noah accepts the QO or decides to help the team out and take a minimal raise in exchange for an escalating extension, they'd be sitting at roughly $44.62-$46 million payroll, leaving somewhere around $13-14 million to offer Melo in his first year.

So yeah, it could work, but that's a dice game I don't think the Bulls should get in on. There are a myriad of things that could happen that would nullify any chance of the Bulls landing Melo over other suitors (say Noah's first-year extension raise is just a bit too much, or he sits on the QO and gets signed to an offer sheet the Bulls don't want to match, etc.), not to mention the fact that the Bulls still have to deal with Rose after 2011-2012, and his QO is $9.1 million. Oh yeah, and JR doesn't want to go into the luxury tax, much less "paying out the ass" for it, not a chance in hell.

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

I appreciate your post, Lefty, and it was very informative. However, I do believe Reinsdorf said he would be willing to empty his pocket books for a winner. And that "Team C" would be heavy title favorites, in my opinion. Luol Deng would become a back-up SF (and very expendable behind Carmelo), and I believe he might be moved (Kirk Hinrich-to-WAS-style) to avoid going into the luxury tax... but, who knows... I really wouldn't hold it against Reinsdorf if he moved Deng upon signing Carmelo. Especially seeing as how he is going to need to extend Rose pretty soon.

 

[JT4Ever4Ever]

I appreciate your post, Lefty, and it was very informative. However, I do believe Reinsdorf said he would be willing to empty his pocket books for a winner. And that "Team C" would be heavy title favorites, in my opinion. Luol Deng would become a back-up SF (and very expendable behind Carmelo), and I believe he might be moved (Kirk Hinrich-to-WAS-style) to avoid going into the luxury tax... but, who knows... I really wouldn't hold it against Reinsdorf if he moved Deng upon signing Carmelo. Especially seeing as how he is going to need to extend Rose pretty soon.

Did JR specifically say he wold go into luxury tax mode? Also even if he does, there is no guarantee that the Bulls can beat Miami. So JR probably isn't going to be willing to do that.

 

[JT4Ever4Ever]

Who the **** voted for Team A in the poll? Are you on crack?

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

We wouldn't be eligible to sign Anthony in the summer LOL, no cap space for the pimp

Theoretical D team.
1- Rose,
2- Brewer, Watson, Bogans
3- Anthony, Korver, Johnson
4- Boozer, Thomas
5- Noah, Asik

Going with your A-B and my D team, and just generalizing off paper, for what this team could potentially do. At first glace(just going to use the top playoff contenders)....

If nobody is injured or gets injured at and through the series.
Miami - A 60/40 in Miami's favor. B 65/35 in Miami's favor. D 65/35 in our favor.
Boston - A 55/45 Boston. B 50/50. D 70/30 in our favor.
Orlando - A 50/50. B 60/40 Orlando. D 60/40 us.
Atlanta - A 55/45 us. B 50/50. D. 70/30 us.
Milwaukee - A 55/45 us. B 60/40 us. C 75/25 us.

But this is a tired attempt to solve a theoretical question LOL.... I'll prolly change my best guess in the morning.

Here is mine, and I included Team C:

Miami - A 95/5 in Miami's favor. B 95/5 in Miami's favor. C 70/30 in our favor D 55/45 in our favor.
Boston - A 70/30 Boston. B 85/15 Boston. C 70/30 in our favor. D 55/45 in our favor.
Orlando - A 65/35 Orlando. B 75/25 Orlando. C 95/5 in our favor. D 70/30 us.

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

Who the **** voted for Team A in the poll? Are you on crack?

Let me highlight, for you, the differences between Teams A and B.

A:
1- Rose
2- Brewer, Watson, Bogans
3- Deng, Korver, Johnson
4- Boozer, Gibson
5- Noah, Thomas, Asik

B:
1- Rose
2- Brewer, Watson, Bogans
3- Anthony, Korver, Johnson
4- Boozer, Gibson
5- Thomas, Asik

We upgrade to a high-degree on offense at the SF position. But... you lose a little defense and rebounding at that position.

Then... you straight-up lose your starting C. The #2 leading rebounder in the NBA; He beats the other team's C down the floor every possession; And he passes decently and gives you 8-11 points-per-game.

Just think look at the 2 line-ups again, and really think hard about which one is the better team. Who would most likely win a game if these two groups fought?

 

[MikeMeraz]

Referring to teams A and B...
Noah's energy would just expand over a 7 game series and he'll lead by example and get everyone on the same page.. He would shut down Boozer from team B and Boozer from team A would go to work. Deng and Anthony? Anthony would have his way but Deng would put up a fight...
Ok so it's...

As far as team leaders,
Team A: Rose, Deng, Boozer and Noah...
Team B: Rose, Anthony and Boozer..
Noah from team A and Boozer from team B would cancel out. Noah would stop Boozer from team B and Boozer from Team A would go to work.

So it's Rose and Anthony vs Rose, Deng, and Boozer..
(As far as team leaders)

Team A wins in 6. Wouldn't go to 7.

I wouldn't give up Noah for Melo... Melo for Deng? Yes. I guess(even tho I hate Melo).

 

[X]

This thread is almost amusing...What with guys predicting percentages of chances to beat Miami in two years if we get one player and keep all the others...lulz...

way too many variables...

Team E: (After we trade Watson for Marcus Camby and Kobe Bryant quits LA to come play with us for the League Minimum....Sign 'Melo...Then we do a Gibson-for-Duncan trade and a pick up Nash off the waiver for 'depth')

Rose, Nash
Kobe, Brewer
Melo, Deng, Korver
Boozer, Duncan
Noah, Camby

Miami - 99/1 Bulls
Boston - 100/0 Bulls
Orlando - 99.5/0.5

We would win 70 games then rest everyone but Korver and Camby (who would win 1 by themselves) and end up w/ a 71-11 record...just to respect the Bulls 72-10 season...they would win every game in the playoffs by 30+ points and Rose would be MVP after avging 18 assists per game.


duh...








r-tards.

 

[pinkizdead]

Well this is the finest example of a straw man that i've ever seen.

no one is arguing that we should start thomas, but pursue a center in the off season or even via trade.

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

hahaha I admit X-factor, that was hilarious. I think if any team is going to beat Miami consistently over the next several seasons that they are going to have to dream big, and take risks. A superteam with Rose, Anthony, Boozer, and Noah is not a pipe dream if they make it happen.

 

[dougthonus]

I appreciate your post, Lefty, and it was very informative. However, I do believe Reinsdorf said he would be willing to empty his pocket books for a winner. And that "Team C" would be heavy title favorites, in my opinion. Luol Deng would become a back-up SF (and very expendable behind Carmelo), and I believe he might be moved (Kirk Hinrich-to-WAS-style) to avoid going into the luxury tax... but, who knows... I really wouldn't hold it against Reinsdorf if he moved Deng upon signing Carmelo. Especially seeing as how he is going to need to extend Rose pretty soon.

It's not a matter of spending money.

We don't have cap room. We can not legally sign Anthony next summer to more than the MLE (deal starting around 5.8 million).

We don't have the option to spend more, the salary cap rules prevent it. The luxury tax is triggered when your salary is high, but you can't spend up to it, you need to reach it via extending your own players, trading for longer term deals, internal raises in contract value, and using exceptions, etc....

For the Bulls to get Anthony next summer they would need to do a S&T with Denver, and Denver would need to take back the same salaries they would earlier in order to make the deal work.

 

[dougthonus]

BTW, you aren't losing defense by going from Anthony to Luol Deng at SF.

 

[Chi-Town Brahma]

I chose Team A.

My reasoning is the team is just slightly deeper than Team B. :bulls:

 

[ClydeLee]

All for Team B... but I'd have to expect a move of someone like JJ or anything to somehow get some depth at the center position... I still choose the B

 

[Lefty]

Oh yeah, and what's with Omer Asik, Keith Bogans and Ronnie Brewer not having salaries on that HoopsHype link? Those guys are getting paid, too, and not it peanuts.

Here's a better look at what the Bulls are paying out and to whom:

http://www.hoopsworld.com/Story.asp?story_id=9193

So yeah, that whole Melo and Noah extension thing isn't going to happen. Their only chance to get Melo is via trade right now or sign-and-trade next summer.