[A] Mike Haviland Fired

[MassHavoc]

4 seasons as special assistant to the GM, 2 as Director of Hockey Operations, 2 Assistant general manager, of hockey operations... that qualifies him for GM? I'm not even sure what qualifications he has to get the Special Assistant to the GM... 8 years of Hockey esperience and the name bowman got him a top job... and we're not talking about a shot at an expansion club, we're talking about the top job in hockey, the job that any GM could have won the cup with that team.

 

[Larmer83]

This is not arguing anything you just said as mostly I agree but it got me curious because i'm not as familiar with all the other GMs around the league and throughout history, but can people name other sucessful GMs that weren't hockey guys? Or guys that had the limited number of hockey related positions before being named a GM? I just can't stop thinking about how excited people were that a Bowman was taking over, but I really don't remember him having any actual hockey positions on his resume other than with the hawks?

The Boston and Vancouver GM's were player agents. Don't recall them having having much, if any, management experience. Feaster in Calgary was a bean counter prior to taking over for Dudley in Tampa just prior tpo their Cup win.

 

[MassHavoc]

Player agents to me is still in the realm of hockey exp.

 

[BigPete]

Did Stan ever play organized hockey at any level, even as a yout? I ask because I don't think you can coach, GM, scout, etc well if you never actually played.

 

[R K]

Did Stan ever play organized hockey at any level, even as a yout? I ask because I don't think you can coach, GM, scout, etc well if you never actually played.

I completely disagree. And growing up in the bowman family I'm pretty sure Stan Skated. That said you watch enough hockey, talent, you can most certainly coach, GM, Scout.... Does playing the game help, maybe, but that doesn't mean the guy who's studied the game his entire life is much farther behind.

 

[Chief Walking Stick]

The better scouts (especially for the Wings) never played... go look at their draft picks for that track record.

 

[Shantz My Pants]

I completely disagree. And growing up in the bowman family I'm pretty sure Stan Skated. That said you watch enough hockey, talent, you can most certainly coach, GM, Scout.... Does playing the game help, maybe, but that doesn't mean the guy who's studied the game his entire life is much farther behind.

Ironically, Haviland only played a total of 20 pro games (ECHL and AHL).



He mentioned this during one of the coaching seminars the Hawks run that he was "at one point exactly where you are, coaching youth hockey". He got lucky that he knew some people and 10 years after quitting the game was back into the pro level.



IMO, I think having played the game to a certain level has an advantage, especially with dealing with players in situations, but I don't think it's a necessity. If you are going to try and make it with no past experience of playing in the game, I do believe as RK mentioned, you need to have studied the game to a high level.



Hockey is a complex sport at the higher levels that cannot be learned in only a short amount of time (McDonough). Hence why Scotty Bowman, who is arguably one of the smartest hockey minds ever was brought in to help teach and "advise" the current president of the Blackhawks. Where that has lead the Hawks is unfortunately starting to reveal itself.

 

[Ashor-redtribe]

I completely disagree. And growing up in the bowman family I'm pretty sure Stan Skated. That said you watch enough hockey, talent, you can most certainly coach, GM, Scout.... Does playing the game help, maybe, but that doesn't mean the guy who's studied the game his entire life is much farther behind.

Figure skating doesn't count....JK

 

[klemmer]

Ironically, Haviland only played a total of 20 pro games (ECHL and AHL).

If memory serves me correct, isn't that more than Scotty Bowman played?



The HHOF seems to back this up:



Born William Scott Bowman on September 18, 1933 in Verdun, Quebec, he was known as Scotty for as long as he can remember. Although readily acknowledged as one of the NHL's most superb coaches, Scotty's original design was not to coach, but to play professional hockey. Regarded as a fine checking leftwinger, Scotty was part of the Montreal Canadiens' system beginning in 1947. By 1950-51, Bowman was playing occasionally with the Montreal Junior Canadiens and by the next season, he joined the team on a regular basis. But on March 6, 1952, during a playoff game against the Trois-Rivieres Reds, Bowman was struck on the head by the stick of Jean-Guy Talbot. "I was injured playing junior hockey in Montreal and I continued to play but I wasn't at the same level," recalls Bowman. Debunking the myth that Scotty suffered a career-ending skull fracture that necessitated the insertion of a plate in his skull, Bowman suffered a five inch gash to his scalp and took fourteen stitches to close the cut. He missed a single game, returning to the Junior Canadiens lineup to continue their run through the playoffs. States Scotty, "I was never the same player afterward. I just didn't have the confidence. I had a lot of headaches and blurred vision." Bowman moved over to the Montreal Royals for the next two seasons, taking him to the conclusion of his junior career.

 

[dlrob315]

Did Stan ever play organized hockey at any level, even as a yout? I ask because I don't think you can coach, GM, scout, etc well if you never actually played.

Or..I don't think you can coach, GM, scout, etc if you actually played the game.



Have you ever heard of Vinny Del Negro, Michael Jordan and Isiah Thomas?

 

[BigPete]

I completely disagree. And growing up in the bowman family I'm pretty sure Stan Skated. That said you watch enough hockey, talent, you can most certainly coach, GM, Scout.... Does playing the game help, maybe, but that doesn't mean the guy who's studied the game his entire life is much farther behind.

Can you give me examples of successful people in any US pro sport that did not have intimate knowledge of their sport prior to becoming a coach, GM, scout, etc? Someone already asked but no one is giving any examples.

 

[klemmer]

Can you give me examples of successful people in any US pro sport that did not have intimate knowledge of their sport prior to becoming a coach, GM, scout, etc? Someone already asked but no one is giving any examples.

McDonough

 

[BigPete]

McDonough

On what level? Baseball? You can not claim he is successful at running the Hawks. He was gifted a piece of shit and polished it a bit. The cup has nothing to do with him, if anything it was won in spite of his influences.



Besides, I think something like President of an organization is far removed from head coach, GM, Dir of player development, etc.

 

[supraman]

Can you give me examples of successful people in any US pro sport that did not have intimate knowledge of their sport prior to becoming a coach, GM, scout, etc? Someone already asked but no one is giving any examples.

Best I can offer



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jay_Feaster

 

[BigPete]

Best I can offer



http://en.wikipedia....iki/Jay_Feaster

That's a pretty good example for GM. Thanks. Now, I would never compare his path to Scooters. Scooter got a financial degree from a really good school, then became a number cruncher for 8 years with the Hawks prior to his big promotion. Feaster did a hell of a lot more prior to becoming GM of the Lightning in '02. He was also given the job after proving his hockey accumen and not just his ability to make a contract or fill out an accounting ledger.

 

[Ashor-redtribe]

Here is the problem, I don't like in this whole thing, If Q gets the right to choose the next assistant, he is going to pick someone as lame as Kitch, that way whom ever it is, will not compete for his job.

 

[klemmer]

On what level? Baseball? You can not claim he is successful at running the Hawks. He was gifted a piece of shit and polished it a bit. The cup has nothing to do with him, if anything it was won in spite of his influences.



Besides, I think something like President of an organization is far removed from head coach, GM, Dir of player development, etc.

Most times, they are. You cannot say that truthfully about the Hawks.



I misread the "successful" part of your question.

 

[BigPete]

Most times, they are. You cannot say that truthfully about the Hawks.



I misread the "successful" part of your question.

They are supposed to be separate. But it is still nice if your president has some intimate knowledge of the sport other than just a fan's perspective as even McDipshit claims to have.

 

[supraman]

They are supposed to be separate. But it is still nice if your president has some intimate knowledge of the sport other than just a fan's perspective as even McDipshit claims to have.

Here's the thing the president should be in charge of everything not hockey ops, The GM in charge of everything hockey ops. Equal positions that handle different sides of the same coin.

 

[klemmer]

They are supposed to be separate. But it is still nice if your president has some intimate knowledge of the sport other than just a fan's perspective as even McDipshit claims to have.

Agreed.



As I said before, he had no idea what a puck was until he starting screwing up the Hawks.