Rex
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the salary cap argument is useless if the cap space isn't used. It's not like we can bank it, and use it next season.
Ton
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It's useless if we don't use it, but also remember, it's not like Campbell was a UFA after this season, he still has 4 more years after this season. If that was the only time Bowman could unload the contract, he might as well have done it for future cap reasons.
Rex
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or hope that the cap keeps going up lol. I see what you mean though.
Still would have liked to get something in return that we used.
Still would have liked to get something in return that we used.
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Sooo... Get rid of an all-star now the is an "A" on a team with no captain, because he could be a bad contract in 4 years? A guy that has shown he was good for the team, the locker room, the system, the city, the hair color. Because you need cap space that you aren't using? Maybe I wouldn't feel as bad if they had gotten anythign other than cap space, but guess what, they didn't even get nearly enough of that. Sure they ended up getting his full contract, but they are still technically paying for it to have Olie play in the AHL, and I think it was Sharpton who I had the conversation about Real Cap Figures vs. IN the book cap figures. Sure we have plenty of cap space and will indeed have the green light to spend to it, yes we are a rich team, but how many more Olie, Huet, whoever else type contracts are they going to keep taking up the ass in the name of cap space before the well runs dry...
Pez68
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You're insane. Who is to say next season, the cap doesn't come down with the new CBA? Would you rather lose Seabrook or Sharp, or lose Campbell? For me, that's a no brainer. The Campbell contract would have killed this team in the future.
Ton
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He isn't just a bad contract in 4 years, but he's a bad contract right now. For the Hawks it made no sense to pay their #3 defenseman more than their #1 and #2. Next year we would be screwed beyond belief (cap-wise, who cares what Rocky pays out of pocket) if Campbell were still here.
If Campbell were still here, we would have $60,879,669 tied up in 17 players next year, meaning $4M (for arguments sake, the cap remains the same) of that must be spent on the remaining 7 spots if we wanted a full roster but I suppose you can get away with just using it on 5-6 players and having a 22-man roster.... still keep in mind this provides no flexibility for deadline moves and handcuffs the team completely from calling up players.
If Campbell were still here, we would have $60,879,669 tied up in 17 players next year, meaning $4M (for arguments sake, the cap remains the same) of that must be spent on the remaining 7 spots if we wanted a full roster but I suppose you can get away with just using it on 5-6 players and having a 22-man roster.... still keep in mind this provides no flexibility for deadline moves and handcuffs the team completely from calling up players.
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The Cap will go up.
Ton
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Even if it does, and you have $7M for 7 players, a generous $3M increase... you still give yourself no flexibility for any moves down the line and still will have trouble calling up players unless someone goes on LTIR.
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Those are problems for Future Bowman.
Pez68
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Which is why Campbell is gone. I thought this was pretty simple, and this was hashed over incessantly when the trade was made? Campbell doesn't solve any of this team's current problems, btw. The same problems that were just as apparent last season, with him here.
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And I beg to differ. As I see the Defense as a huge proble this year and while he may not be the perfect answer for whatever reasons you want to put forth I think he would do a lot of things for this team. Namely no Montador or OD. That right there improves the D. I feel he would bring some more consistency to the PP which as we've all noted can be up and down as illustrated by the fact that Montador is recieving some time on it. (I will say that I've seen him play fairly decent there) but as noted in the IR article he's been a PK guy in the past. And most importantly, Q FUCKING TRUSTED HIM. He would be eating minutes right now instead of Keith playing 30. Which I believe right there is a lot of the problem. Too many minutes for Keith at the pace he plays.
Ton
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I think everyone would be in agreement that Campbell helps this team. But IMO, moving forward the move was necessary.
As far as Bruno, Morrison, O'Donnell, and other old farts, I think it's pretty clear that these are band-aid moves. As I've stated in the past, Tallon did the same thing in acquiring band-aid players to fill holes while his youth developed. I don't think it's fair to label these as "bad moves" because it is what it is.
Now if Bowmans youth movement doesn't work out, those are the types of moves that can be labeled bad. But as of now it looks bright to me. Stalberg, Leddy, and the plethora of prospects we've gained seem to look promising.
The only moves in my mind that are bad would be the following: Signing Frolik to a 3-year deal $2.3M cap hit and signing Hammer to a 4-year $3.5M cap hit over Niemi.
The others, it is what it is.
As far as Bruno, Morrison, O'Donnell, and other old farts, I think it's pretty clear that these are band-aid moves. As I've stated in the past, Tallon did the same thing in acquiring band-aid players to fill holes while his youth developed. I don't think it's fair to label these as "bad moves" because it is what it is.
Now if Bowmans youth movement doesn't work out, those are the types of moves that can be labeled bad. But as of now it looks bright to me. Stalberg, Leddy, and the plethora of prospects we've gained seem to look promising.
The only moves in my mind that are bad would be the following: Signing Frolik to a 3-year deal $2.3M cap hit and signing Hammer to a 4-year $3.5M cap hit over Niemi.
The others, it is what it is.
Pez68
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Campbell had six points on the PP last season. He actually PK'd more than he played the PP. He was being misused, just like Leddy is. Just as Montador is. I'm sorry, but Montador has never been given a fair chance on this team. We haven't once seen a Hammer/Montador pairing, and you can't possibly tell me it would be worse than Hammer/Leddy or Keith/Leddy.
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From the looks of the PK you aren't helping your argument, haha. And all the rest of the stuff you say I think can be reposted in that other panic thread we have as I don't disagree with you.
Pez68
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PK sucked last season too, with him on it.
R K
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Most are saying with the CBA negotiations looming the Cap will go down by several Million. Campbells trade, while shitty for the back end now could have had HUGE impact on the years to come at 7mil per being the largest cap hit on the books. So I have to agree with Tony. Even though I absolutely liked BC and they don't win the Cup without him IMO.
So I will not slam Stan for that. Nor will I slam him for Brunette as NO ONE I know thought Brunette would be as slow as he's been. So really, other than not resigning the 2nd most physical player this team had in Brouwer, did he really make any huge mistakes?
Odonnell maybe because he knew what he was getting? Montedor, but is he even using him correctly, Q that is?
In a couple of years you'll be able to judge Stan with a more complete judgement.
R K
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Yea but 1.44 per game compared to the other guys (keith, Seabrook, Hjarlmarsson), he didn't have a huge amount of PK per game. The other three were over 2 and Keith/Seabrook well over the average of 2.
Pez68
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Bingo.
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What bugs the shit out of me is replacing Leddy on the 2nd PP unit with Morrison and continuing to trot out Leddy on the 2nd PK unit. Granted, Q has used OD recently in Leddy's spot on the PK but there is no reason to have Leddy on the PK. His PK numbers are terrible. Montador was given 2nd unit PK minutes in Buffalo last year but hasn't got a sniff of PK time with the Hawks.
the canadian dream
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Actually you are wrong pez. Pretty much played both a little more on the PP.
SH Ice Time = 112:54
PP Ice Time = 132:20
Year before (cup year) Campbell played very limited minutes on the PK and the bulk on the PP. Because Sopel was logging huge PK minutes and doing well at. Campbell was never misused. And the PK here improved last year when Campolli came in and took the minutes over. Was a great move by Stan at the time..was dumb letting him walk at the end of year. But I guess he was thinking Montadore would take those minutes...Q has fucked that up.
I'll give you the Montador stuff . He has been misused getting limited PK ice time while getting too much PP ice time (it should be the other way around). O'Donell is getting far too much PK time as is Leddy for his current abilities...but its still a learning curve for him. Leddy also isnt getting enough PP time esp when he has one of the better shots as far as our blueline collection goes.