AA sues over proposed cross at 9/11 memorial

BigPete

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So t has to be religious belief/directive for a person to be against *** marriage? They can't just find it physically repugnant, it has to be because of religion? Just a question......very few things are that straight forward.



Like I said before, they should just set up a place for reflection with no religiouos imagery. But this is getting out of hand, where one religious group is suing another.

So where then did that repulsion come from? I can't say I want to see two guys playing catch (if you know what I mean), but that doesn't mean I don't think they should have a right to do that in private and still be afforded the same legal protections that a man and woman are granted under our laws.
 

LordKOTL

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So where then did that repulsion come from? I can't say I want to see two guys playing catch (if you know what I mean), but that doesn't mean I don't think they should have a right to do that in private and still be afforded the same legal protections that a man and woman are granted under our laws.

That's pretty much the deal when it comes to any *legal* socially abhorrent act. *** sex is legal and *** relationships are legal, but the populace en masse thinks it's abhorrent. So, they try and take away the validity.



Hell, I hate to turn this into a holy war, but seeing children getting involved in stuff like The Westboro Baptist Church, the KKK, and the whole "God Hates ****" thing, I personally find that completely abhorrent, yet you don't see me carrying a cross to try and make some law saying teaching hatred as religion to kids should be illegal and is immoral.
 

IceHogsFan

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That's pretty much the deal when it comes to any *legal* socially abhorrent act. *** sex is legal and *** relationships are legal, but the populace en masse thinks it's abhorrent. So, they try and take away the validity.



Hell, I hate to turn this into a holy war, but seeing children getting involved in stuff like The Westboro Baptist Church, the KKK, and the whole "God Hates ****" thing, I personally find that completely abhorrent, yet you don't see me carrying a cross to try and make some law saying teaching hatred as religion to kids should be illegal and is immoral.



Isn't it great to live in the U.S. of A. where you can state so without fear or retribution, jail or even death?
 

LordKOTL

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Isn't it great to live in the U.S. of A. where you can state so without fear or retribution, jail or even death?

You can do that in a lot of other countries I've found as well. Canada, much of the EU, etc. In my travels I've learned that most of the "advanced" nations out there have about the same amount of rights and freedoms--some of the specifics get shifted around here and there, but for the most part, there's all about the same as the U.S.



Not knocking the US in any way shape or form in that; just debunking the premise that America is the only country with any freedom of speech and expression.
 

bubbleheadchief

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So where then did that repulsion come from? I can't say I want to see two guys playing catch (if you know what I mean), but that doesn't mean I don't think they should have a right to do that in private and still be afforded the same legal protections that a man and woman are granted under our laws.

deleted due to being tired of everyone's Special person position of "My way is the right way, and your's is fucked."
 

BigPete

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deleted due to being tired of everyone's Special person position of "My way is the right way, and your's is fucked."

I'm sorry, I thought it was an open and honest question. I was not loading it in any way. I would love to understand this 'repulsion' to see if more people like yourself could find a way past it to allow these human beings with feelings and thoughts, wants and desires, to live them out in peace free from prejudice.



People can be 'repulsed' all they want, but at the end of the day they need to accept that the *** lifestyle is a reality. Not some evil plot to offend their sensibilities.
 

bri

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I'm sorry, I thought it was an open and honest question. I was not loading it in any way. I would love to understand this 'repulsion' to see if more people like yourself could find a way past it to allow these human beings with feelings and thoughts, wants and desires, to live them out in peace free from prejudice.



People can be 'repulsed' all they want, but at the end of the day they need to accept that the *** lifestyle is a reality. Not some evil plot to offend their sensibilities.





He didn't say he was repulsed. What I got out of it is that it isn't always about religious beliefs. Some people have other reasons for not approving of *** marriage and I think he was just using repulsion as an example.
 

bubbleheadchief

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I'm sorry, I thought it was an open and honest question. I was not loading it in any way. I would love to understand this 'repulsion' to see if more people like yourself could find a way past it to allow these human beings with feelings and thoughts, wants and desires, to live them out in peace free from prejudice.



People can be 'repulsed' all they want, but at the end of the day they need to accept that the *** lifestyle is a reality. Not some evil plot to offend their sensibilities.

Define more people like me please? You dont know a damn thing about me, and I fully resent your uneducated and closed minded statement as such. No where have I ever said it is an evil plot, nor have I ever spoken against *** marriage.



For your own edification and education, although it is none of your damned business, my uncle presided over my first wedding ceremenoy. My uncle had received Gods calling (his words for it) and started his road to become a member of the clergy in his middle teens. Reverend Bob, aka Reverend Robert, aka Brother Bob, after shifting through several religious orders, eventually went on to found a couple Uniterian Churches in Kansas, as well as one in Jacksonville Florida just prior to him being killed in a horrific accident while on his way to Winterpark Florida for a religious conference.

I knew Reverend Bob as Uncle Bill, as his given name was William. My Uncle Bill was ***, and damned proud of that fact, as we were damned proud of him and his willingness to reach out to others even though he wasn't necessarily accepted by all in his community. He was one of the most grounded individuals I have ever met, and I wish more people in this world were like him. And to add insult to injury, shorly after Uncle Bill's untimely death (a couple years) we lost his life partner Cal to cancer. Cal was also a great person, and one of the most open and flamboyent personalities I have ever known. My family and I miss both of them dearly.



So **** off with your "people like you" bullshit.



All I have done is try to point out that it isnt always about the evil religious few out there. I am not religious, nor have I ever really been. I for one am sick and tired of both sides forcing one view or the other down everyones throat. Somewhere along the line someone has to grow some thick skin and realize not everyone will be made happy by a decision. As I said to someone just recently, why the **** should hetero's be the only miserable people out there, let homosexuals be miserable too.
 

BlackHawkPaul

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I know atheists that don't like any sort of *** activity (one used to be a filmmaking buddy until I got tired of his openly hateful stance on homosexuality-- he was chirping about it around one of my actresses who was a lesbian). This does transcend past religious belief.



So... what's up on that cross?
 

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Define more people like me please? You dont know a damn thing about me, and I fully resent your uneducated and closed minded statement as such. No where have I ever said it is an evil plot, nor have I ever spoken against *** marriage.



For your own edification and education, although it is none of your damned business, my uncle presided over my first wedding ceremenoy. My uncle had received Gods calling (his words for it) and started his road to become a member of the clergy in his middle teens. Reverend Bob, aka Reverend Robert, aka Brother Bob, after shifting through several religious orders, eventually went on to found a couple Uniterian Churches in Kansas, as well as one in Jacksonville Florida just prior to him being killed in a horrific accident while on his way to Winterpark Florida for a religious conference.

I knew Reverend Bob as Uncle Bill, as his given name was William. My Uncle Bill was ***, and damned proud of that fact, as we were damned proud of him and his willingness to reach out to others even though he wasn't necessarily accepted by all in his community. He was one of the most grounded individuals I have ever met, and I wish more people in this world were like him. And to add insult to injury, shorly after Uncle Bill's untimely death (a couple years) we lost his life partner Cal to cancer. Cal was also a great person, and one of the most open and flamboyent personalities I have ever known. My family and I miss both of them dearly.



So **** off with your "people like you" bullshit.



All I have done is try to point out that it isnt always about the evil religious few out there. I am not religious, nor have I ever really been. I for one am sick and tired of both sides forcing one view or the other down everyones throat. Somewhere along the line someone has to grow some thick skin and realize not everyone will be made happy by a decision. As I said to someone just recently, why the **** should hetero's be the only miserable people out there, let homosexuals be miserable too.

Please don't take this as facetious or me personally attacking you, but something I'd like to ask:



If we are to agree that Homosexuals should be given the same civil rights as Straight people, then what level should Heterosexuals and Homosexuals be allowed to display their "lifestyle?" What level of "public displays of affection" are appropriate?
 

supraman

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Please don't take this as facetious or me personally attacking you, but something I'd like to ask:



If we are to agree that Homosexuals should be given the same civil rights as Straight people, then what level should Heterosexuals and Homosexuals be allowed to display their "lifestyle?" What level of "public displays of affection" are appropriate?



Simple. Homosexuals or any minority citizen deserves the same exact treatment of a white heterosexual. No more, no less. That goes for public displays of affection as well. Ever since women were allowed to vote the constitution applies to "the people" not "the hetero people" or "the white people", etc. the people, that means everybody is equal.



Think about this, I am willing to bet there are more people that hate the KKK or WBC than homosexuals but man are they quick to defend those same groups' right to free speech, why is it any different for any other minority? I'd much rather have the hate speech squashed than kill off homosexual marriage (for the record I have nothing against homosexual marriage)
 

BlackHawkPaul

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Please don't take this as facetious or me personally attacking you, but something I'd like to ask:



If we are to agree that Homosexuals should be given the same civil rights as Straight people, then what level should Heterosexuals and Homosexuals be allowed to display their "lifestyle?" What level of "public displays of affection" are appropriate?



Blowjobs outside of grade schools?

Holding hands?



I've always been the guy that yells "get a room" whether it's ***, straight, or with your dog.

Probably because I'm old fashioned and boring.
 

BlackHawkPaul

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Simple. Homosexuals or any minority citizen deserves the same exact treatment of a white heterosexual. No more, no less. That goes for public displays of affection as well. Ever since women were allowed to vote the constitution applies to "the people" not "the hetero people" or "the white people", etc. the people, that means everybody is equal.



Think about this, I am willing to bet there are more people that hate the KKK or WBC than homosexuals but man are they quick to defend those same groups' right to free speech, why is it any different for any other minority? I'd much rather have the hate speech squashed than kill off homosexual marriage (for the record I have nothing against homosexual marriage)



As much as I understand the principles that you defend, I don't want to quell a racist from spewing open hate.

I'd rather the hateful force be out in the open, and once you limit their rights, others can be chipped away.
 

bubbleheadchief

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Please don't take this as facetious or me personally attacking you, but something I'd like to ask:



If we are to agree that Homosexuals should be given the same civil rights as Straight people, then what level should Heterosexuals and Homosexuals be allowed to display their "lifestyle?" What level of "public displays of affection" are appropriate?

That is the part you're going to have both sides draggin their feet and arguing about. And I could care less what is decided. If I come across somethign I dont think is appropriate for my kid to see, nothing stops me from walking away, and if I can't "walk away" I am well within my rights to ask them to tone it down, as long as I am respectfully to them. I wil be honest here too, it is very seldom I see a *** couple creating a scene in public, it is usually a couple of teenagers all over each other showing no respect to others around them.



All I was trying to point out, before I was turned into a *** hating homophobe was that it isnt always religion causing bad things. I am 43 years old. I was raised with a pretty solid mix of 50's and 60's values as far as that kind of stuff goes.
 

supraman

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As much as I understand the principles that you defend, I don't want to quell a racist from spewing open hate.

I'd rather the hateful force be out in the open, and once you limit their rights, others can be chipped away.



Are you refering to limited their rights via laws? if so I'm against that because I don't want an authoritative government.



Easiest way to make them go away is to ignore them and/or to teach your children better than that.



I mean look at the KKK it is a shell of what it once was. I don't think people take them seriously anymore, sure they hate the KKK but they don't take them seriously.
 

BigPete

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Chief, I read your statement to say that you personally were repulsed by *** male activity.



I stand corrected. I am sorry that you were offended by what I said, but I assure you I am not attacking you. It was a misunderstanding.



I do know however, that there are plenty of people out there that ARE in fact repulsed by *** people. I would love to understand what makes those people feel that way. Many of them use religion, more specifically Judaism and Christianity, as their justification.
 

bri

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Holy ****, I'll have to mark this day on the calendar.
 

bubbleheadchief

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To get back to the original thread:

(This is not an opening for the concpiracy theorists/ant-concpiracy theorists to hijack this thread, so please don't)

I dont want to see a cross there, it is widely accepted that Muslim extremists, in the name of their religion, attacked America, not Christians or Jews or Buddhists or any other religion. We know the towers were used and housed by many nationalities and religions. many have said just put a flag there instead. I can go for this but if they are going to put a flag there, I have no problem with the US flag being the most prominent as it is our land physically, I want to see the Int'l flag of Peace as well as the flag of the nationality of every person that died in the towers.
 

LordKOTL

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My point on asking that (and yes, anyone else feel free to answer) is that anything that good for straights has to be good for the gays.



If holding hands is okay for straights, then it has to be okay for gays.



If kissing is okay for straights, it has to be good for gays.



I wasn't trying to label anyone a ***-bashing homo, just try and work the angle that if we hold ourselves as equal regardless of anything then if it's okay for me to kiss my wife in public then it should be okay for a *** man to kiss his male lover/mate in public, or two lesbian lovers/partners to kiss in public.



Now granted, I want to see two dudes kissing as much as I want to see the close-up shot of the dude's face in a porno (tell my why again do they always have that shot in all of them?), but if I'm allowed to do it, they should as well.
 

LordKOTL

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To get back to the original thread:

(This is not an opening for the concpiracy theorists/ant-concpiracy theorists to hijack this thread, so please don't)

I dont want to see a cross there, it is widely accepted that Muslim extremists, in the name of their religion, attacked America, not Christians or Jews or Buddhists or any other religion. We know the towers were used and housed by many nationalities and religions. many have said just put a flag there instead. I can go for this but if they are going to put a flag there, I have no problem with the US flag being the most prominent as it is our land physically, I want to see the Int'l flag of Peace as well as the flag of the nationality of every person that died in the towers.

I can get behind that.
 

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