ACLU Challenges Florida’s Mandatory Drug Tests For Housing

[IceHogsFan]

Would you like to explain the 4th Amendment for us? You know, those of us that actually went to school to study it?



What's your Person? Where does your "Person" not exist? What's included in your "Person"?



Again, like I've asked you now three times, what differentiates an Alcoholic verses a Pot Head? The fact one is classified as a Drug and the other Not. I wouldn't hire you because I know you drink. Hows that work?

I never studied Constitional Law. Since not doing so I guess I can not give an opinion nor share my reasoning behind said opinion.



Again, alcohol is a legal substance. I don't see any reason why you continue to use that example. If it were prohibition again we would have a different discussion.

 

[mikita's helmet]

Stick with the discussion at hand please. We are talking about a specific situation.

I'm it's called the Constitution of the United States and ANY citizen's right to be free of an unreasonable search without probable cause.

 

[R K]

Stick with the discussion at hand please. We are talking about a specific situation.

Lame. He can post what ever the **** he wants.

 

[R K]

I never studied Constitional Law. Since not doing so I guess I can not give an opinion nor share my reasoning behind said opinion.



Again, alcohol is a legal substance. I don't see any reason why you continue to use that example. If it were prohibition again we would have a different discussion.

.



You give an opinion yet don't understand the Constitution which you are giving an opinion on. Maybe read about the 4th Amendment and get back to me.



Alcohol is a great example of where society is hypocritical. It's ok to do one, yet not another. If you don't get that correllation I can't help you.



Maybe I'll just be a bully and not go down this path with you. Or just tell me to stick to the discussion. Lame.

 

[IceHogsFan]

Which is an acception violation of your Fourth Amendment. Most of my employers have done so as well. The "ONLY" reason I would allow my rights to be violated.



I also have a huge problem with Alcohol, which kills far more than "drugs" being legal. That's another can of worms, but clearly tied in here. I would garuntee most of these people here saying this is OK drink. Especially MASS!



So lets classify their Alcohol as a narcotic. It's clearly worse than Marijuana.

It appears you favor marijuana being a legal substance. If that is so, it also appears to skew your opinion of narcotic screenings.



Why is it okay for an employer to be allowed to screen but someone applying for living quarters at the taxpayers expense not allowed to?

 

[mikita's helmet]

Why is it okay for an employer to be allowed to screen but someone applying for living quarters at the taxpayers expense not allowed to?

If it's a private employer it's fine. Private employers are not bound by the Constitution.

 

[IceHogsFan]

I'm it's called the Constitution of the United States and ANY citizen's right to be free of an unreasonable search without probable cause.

I stated that because examples keep being given that are not relevant to what the thread specifically states.



I only see two of you taking your opinion that it is illegal to request a drug screen in this situation. I would venture to say that I am in the overwhelming majority in my opinion even though I don't have a degree in that field.

 

[bubbleheadchief]

It's a slippery slope. Once you start giving up the right to be free of unreasonable searches for things you consider common sense, things that you may not consider to be common sense, like drug testing will be next, which RK has said they're trying to do in the Lake Zurich, IL comunity right now.

Okay, correct me here if i am wrong...it is a LAW to have a drivers license and insurance to operate a motor vehicle in any state on public roads, yes?



So PD having a "check point" on a public road to ensure that people operating said motor vehicles, (again owning/operating a vehicle is not a right, it is a privilege) are in compliance with the law, giving out tickets to those that don't, and thank you sir/ma'am have a nice day to those that are in compliance with the law......that is an illegal search how? You arent singling anyone out, you are stopping everyone.



Going beyond the lisence/insurance check I would have a problem with...taking me out of the car and searching it, just becasue I dont have my lisence or insurance is a stretch for probable cause. Not that I have anything to worry about...other then that DEADLY paint-ball gun in the trunk.

 

[mikita's helmet]

I stated that because examples keep being given that are not relevant to what the thread specifically states.



I only see two of you taking your opinion that it is illegal to request a drug screen in this situation. I would venture to say that I am in the overwhelming majority in my opinion even though I don't have a degree in that field.

The Bill of Rights, including the 4th Amendment were designed to protect the individual (and minority viewpoint), from the tyranny of the majority.



Again, go get a law school case book or nutshell and read all the 4th amendment cases that deal with unreasonable searches and probable cause.

 

[R K]

It appears you favor marijuana being a legal substance. If that is so, it also appears to skew your opinion of narcotic screenings.



Why is it okay for an employer to be allowed to screen but someone applying for living quarters at the taxpayers expense not allowed to?

If it's a private employer they are not bound by the Constitution, even though I think it could extend. You are specifically talking about the "Governement here" which is clearly held to the Constitutional Standard.



I'm in favor of equal laws although it has nothing to do with my view on the trampling of the Constitution. I am just pointing out the Hypocrisy of many who drink and the fact there is no difference in an "alcholoc verses a drug addict".

 

[Larmer83]

It appears you favor marijuana being a legal substance. If that is so, it also appears to skew your opinion of narcotic screenings.



Why is it okay for an employer to be allowed to screen but someone ___________________________ at the taxpayers expense not allowed to?

Fill in the blank. There a numerous instances in which people and corporations accept taxpayer money. Or should we just worry about those in the ghetto.



For the record, that's 3 consecutive posts in which I've dropped musical references.

 

[Spunky Porkstacker]

I'm sure some folks also have illegal firearms. Would you have a problem with the police coming to your neighborhood and searching your home and your neighbors' homes, and making you prove that any firearm you or a neigbor has is legally yours?

Are those people trying to get the taxpayers to pay for their housing?

 

[R K]

I suggest you do some legal briefs on a few 4th Amendment Cases. It will allow you to understand why some of us are so against the abuse of any "granted" right.

I stated that because examples keep being given that are not relevant to what the thread specifically states.



I only see two of you taking your opinion that it is illegal to request a drug screen in this situation. I would venture to say that I am in the overwhelming majority in my opinion even though I don't have a degree in that field.

Maybe that's because the "majority" don't understand what this means to the Foundation of the Constitution. Maybe you've missed Larmers comments since you only pointed to Mikita and Myself here.



There are more that understand the ramifications than you think there grasshopper.

 

[mikita's helmet]

Okay, correct me here if i am wrong...it is a LAW to have a drivers license and insurance to operate a motor vehicle in any state on public roads, yes?



So PD having a "check point" on a public road to ensure that people operating said motor vehicles, (again owning/operating a vehicle is not a right, it is a privilege) are in compliance with the law, giving out tickets to those that don't, and thank you sir/ma'am have a nice day to those that are in compliance with the law......that is an illegal search how? You arent singling anyone out, you are stopping everyone.



Going beyond the lisence/insurance check I would have a problem with...taking me out of the car and searching it, just becasue I dont have my lisence or insurance is a stretch for probable cause. Not that I have anything to worry about...other then that DEADLY paint-ball gun in the trunk.

There's still not probable cause for any indivudual beng asked to produce documents. Have a broke tail light, yes. Car weaving down the road, yes. Following the rules of the road while driving home from 7/11, no.



Consider this scenario. The person behind you in a checkpoint, who looks perfectly normal to you, has an illegal firearm in his car's trunk. The police don't know this, you don't know. Can they look in your trunk, now?

 

[IceHogsFan]

There's still not probable cause for any indivudual beng asked to produce documents. Have a broke tail light, yes. Car weaving down the road, yes. Following the rules of the road while driving home from 7/11, no.



Consider this scenario. The person behind you in a checkpoint, who looks perfectly normal to you, has an illegal firearm in his car's trunk. The police don't know this, you don't know. Can they look in your trunk, now?

So, are you an attorney?

 

[mikita's helmet]

Are those people trying to get the taxpayers to pay for their housing?

Non-responsive?



Regardless, the crimes committed, and people killed, with illegal handguns are a public saftey issue. It's also a taxpyaer issue. The cost of prosecuting a crime, the appeals after a conviction, the housing of the indivudual while in jail and if covicted, the cost of housing in prison.

 

[R K]

So, are you an attorney?

What does it matter what he is?



You are annonymous?

 

[mikita's helmet]

So, are you an attorney?

I'm an active member of two state bars.

 

[winos5]

Which is an acception violation of your Fourth Amendment. Most of my employers have done so as well. The "ONLY" reason I would allow my rights to be violated.



I also have a huge problem with Alcohol, which kills far more than "drugs" being legal. That's another can of worms, but clearly tied in here. I would garuntee most of these people here saying this is OK drink. Especially MASS!



So lets classify their Alcohol as a narcotic. It's clearly worse than Marijuana.

I also have to submit BAT concurently with the urine sample at one employer.

 

[dlrob315]

I don't think it's the school's job, but as a parent, if I am suspicious of something, you bet I'll dig around and find out.



As far as the ACLU, they should shut up. Drug testing for subsidized housing or a welfare check is no different than mandatory drug testing in the work place. They aren't saying you are automatically guilty. They are saying we are weeding out the guilty who would cheat the system, and cheating those who are living within the law of the system.

A person is more likely to cheat the system if they smoke dope? But if you drink alcohol you are unlikely to cheat any system?



So the answer would be for the people on welfare who like to get their bubble on......quit smoking dope and just use the money on alcohol!