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Who said it's not good performance? What is happening in here? Why are you tossing the fanboy pejorative around?
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Who said it's not good performance? What is happening in here? Why are you tossing the fanboy pejorative around?
Monsieur Tirets
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apparently acknowledging the reality that ryzen = not great at gaming = fanboy. amd mismarketed the chip and a lot of gamers bought into the hype, which is what amd needed/wanted. marketing it as a workstation chip wouldnt have sold enough product. they needed the market that mattered. its an excellent value for the niche group of people that can use it where it excels, but for gamers, its main target audience and the main desktop market, it failed in that regard. is it decent performance when taking on its own, yeah, but thats not what it was being sold as. amd set themselves up for failure in that sense.
anyway the argument that no one buys a 500 dollar cpu to game at 1080p is utter bullshit. until mid range cards are capable of maintaining 60fps in newly released games maxed at 1440p, and 1440p monitors drop in price, 1080p will remain the norm as it is now with nearly 50% of gamers playing at that resolution, and in 2nd place is 720 with near 50% of gamers still using that as well. all other resolutions, including 1440 and 4k make up like 1%.
considering even a gtx 1080 will regularly drop well below 60fps at at 1440p, let alone 4k if you want to play games with all the eye candy turned up and remain above 60fps on a regular basis, without spending 1000s of dollars on a gpu(or gpus) 1080p is really the only option. and games are only going to become more demanding. so, as mentioned in a number of reviewers, the low 1080p performance that vanishes by making the gpu the bottleneck when upping the resolution will only reappear as more powerful gpus hit the market. then theres also the people that want to play less demanding games at extremely high refresh rates, which again means 1080p is the way to go. lastly better chips with more threads provide a much smoother experience at 1080p with more consistent frame times and higher mins. which is yet another reason to go with a good cpu even if you are gaming at 1080p. plus wasnt a main selling point of ryzen its low price? that kind of goes out the window when you say well its an expensive cpu, who buys that while not also buying a 1000 dollar gpu and a 1000 dollar monitor, etc?
the whole high res argument is silly, considering a fucking i3 performs just as well at 4k as 500+ dollar cpus. if you going with that rationale... why buy the 500 dollar chip at all? its absolutely ridiculous to suggest evaluating a cpu while going out of your way to take it out of the equation.
also, the 1700 is not 500 bucks.
anyway the argument that no one buys a 500 dollar cpu to game at 1080p is utter bullshit. until mid range cards are capable of maintaining 60fps in newly released games maxed at 1440p, and 1440p monitors drop in price, 1080p will remain the norm as it is now with nearly 50% of gamers playing at that resolution, and in 2nd place is 720 with near 50% of gamers still using that as well. all other resolutions, including 1440 and 4k make up like 1%.
considering even a gtx 1080 will regularly drop well below 60fps at at 1440p, let alone 4k if you want to play games with all the eye candy turned up and remain above 60fps on a regular basis, without spending 1000s of dollars on a gpu(or gpus) 1080p is really the only option. and games are only going to become more demanding. so, as mentioned in a number of reviewers, the low 1080p performance that vanishes by making the gpu the bottleneck when upping the resolution will only reappear as more powerful gpus hit the market. then theres also the people that want to play less demanding games at extremely high refresh rates, which again means 1080p is the way to go. lastly better chips with more threads provide a much smoother experience at 1080p with more consistent frame times and higher mins. which is yet another reason to go with a good cpu even if you are gaming at 1080p. plus wasnt a main selling point of ryzen its low price? that kind of goes out the window when you say well its an expensive cpu, who buys that while not also buying a 1000 dollar gpu and a 1000 dollar monitor, etc?
the whole high res argument is silly, considering a fucking i3 performs just as well at 4k as 500+ dollar cpus. if you going with that rationale... why buy the 500 dollar chip at all? its absolutely ridiculous to suggest evaluating a cpu while going out of your way to take it out of the equation.
also, the 1700 is not 500 bucks.
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I keep seeing the same circular logic getting tossed around.
What in your opinion makes it "not great" at gaming? Especially real world use case for gamers. Selective benchmarks? Or can we set that fanboy argument aside and see that some games perform better and some worse? I take it to another level here and suggest that because optimizations exist in the compilers, drivers, EFI, IDEs, and engines for Skylake/Kaby Lake, and optimizations for Zen are rare and still getting hashed out(as they needed with Skylake), that we don't even see fair comparisons, just a lot of conclusions. That is what makes a person a fanboy, waiting for selective data to point their way, and pouncing all over it with paragraphs of ignoring the big picture. Don't also say the hype thing is a problem, all things equal, hype is hype from any company, that is how they sell products. Who isn't hyping their hardware? That is just the nature of the beast.
I'm just curious. And Yes bot, you're a mega intel and nvidia fanboy. xer0 is as well, but team AMD. So much fanboying. Let's not play dumb, the only reason you posted anything in this thread, is to post negatives. But to cover tracks, you would add a tiny bit of bias-coverup. Nobody is fooled.
14 million users that are still using a 8350/6xxx or lower for primary or secondary systems, worldwide, are interested. That should be obvious to a neutral examiner.
What in your opinion makes it "not great" at gaming? Especially real world use case for gamers. Selective benchmarks? Or can we set that fanboy argument aside and see that some games perform better and some worse? I take it to another level here and suggest that because optimizations exist in the compilers, drivers, EFI, IDEs, and engines for Skylake/Kaby Lake, and optimizations for Zen are rare and still getting hashed out(as they needed with Skylake), that we don't even see fair comparisons, just a lot of conclusions. That is what makes a person a fanboy, waiting for selective data to point their way, and pouncing all over it with paragraphs of ignoring the big picture. Don't also say the hype thing is a problem, all things equal, hype is hype from any company, that is how they sell products. Who isn't hyping their hardware? That is just the nature of the beast.
I'm just curious. And Yes bot, you're a mega intel and nvidia fanboy. xer0 is as well, but team AMD. So much fanboying. Let's not play dumb, the only reason you posted anything in this thread, is to post negatives. But to cover tracks, you would add a tiny bit of bias-coverup. Nobody is fooled.
14 million users that are still using a 8350/6xxx or lower for primary or secondary systems, worldwide, are interested. That should be obvious to a neutral examiner.
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lol, I have done nothing but praise ryzen and have been criticizing intel for years... I don't think you know what fanboy means. This is fucking weird and a little bit offensive. The only one on here throwing personal accusations or insults at individuals is you. So maybe take a step back.
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I originally wasn't addressing you, but then you said ...
Along with years of tech discussion here, that statement became the dead giveaway. So it's okay to offend millions of 8350 users that are specifically waiting for direct comparisons, but not okay to call someone out for mocking them(by pointing out the fanboy). Hmmmm :thinking:
Along with years of tech discussion here, that statement became the dead giveaway. So it's okay to offend millions of 8350 users that are specifically waiting for direct comparisons, but not okay to call someone out for mocking them(by pointing out the fanboy). Hmmmm :thinking:
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You're being kinda insane dude. And maybe you don't know what fanboy means.
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Sure call me insane for being honest, but I know a fanboy when I see one.
Fact is, Ryzen is a great gaming CPU along with being a great workstation CPU. Fact is, software is not mature. Fact is, millions of 8350range users want to see comparisons and you get a chuckle out of it. Fact is trends for new hardware support 2K and 4K usage growth. Fact is, PC gamers use multiple applications in the background while gaming. Fact is, Ryzen before optimizations hangs with 4C/8T intel CPUs at similar price points(CPU+Board) and hangs with 8C/16T Intel CPUs that cost significantly more. Fact, it's a new architecture.
Fact is, Ryzen is a great gaming CPU along with being a great workstation CPU. Fact is, software is not mature. Fact is, millions of 8350range users want to see comparisons and you get a chuckle out of it. Fact is trends for new hardware support 2K and 4K usage growth. Fact is, PC gamers use multiple applications in the background while gaming. Fact is, Ryzen before optimizations hangs with 4C/8T intel CPUs at similar price points(CPU+Board) and hangs with 8C/16T Intel CPUs that cost significantly more. Fact, it's a new architecture.
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lol, ok. Not worth it to ruin the only civil place on ccs. I'm just gon laugh it off and move on.
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Laughing off things as a debate defense like Romney in 2012. Whatever, that's your call. I just ask one thing. Let's keep it fanboy free.
AussieBear
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yeah a 6300 is still a promoted gaming budget option in oz... well it was up to late last year...havent been following the trends.. lots of ppl have been on that 6300/750ti/hdXXXX set up for years.. a big old potato push has been going on in oz over the last couple of years too...
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Wow, someone is being rational. Who woulda thunk.
[video=youtube;8-mMBbWHrwM]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8-mMBbWHrwM[/video]
[video=youtube;8-mMBbWHrwM]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8-mMBbWHrwM[/video]
AussieBear
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jay is one of the few puter guys i watch from time to time.. he generally doesnt come off biased in the stuff ive seen.. but i havent seen all his shit...
you gotz what it takes crys??.. jay quit his job and does that youtube gig fulltime now..
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I am gaming on a 4960X + GTX 1080 @ 144Hz 1440p and I don't have any games that drop under 60 FPS unless they are coded like dog shit. These are fringe cases on new games that have not undergone fixing or driver optimization.
I like AMD because they have always represented bang for your buck and the fact of the matter is that the industry has become a cesspool of shit since AMD hasn't been relevant and Intel has been price gouging my pockets for years now. In that sense I am a fanboy for AMD. They represent the underdog in the dGPU and CPU market. I want them to do well and be competitive if not laying a smackdown on Nvidia and Intel. This only benefits everyone. Prices go down. Tech doesn't stagnate at pitiful 1-2% IPC gains or 5-10% graphics power bumps.
No matter what, my rigs will always have what is the current powerhouse at the time its built. Within reason and budget of course. Crys is right though about gamers. We don't sit here with multi-core powerhouses just playing a game and doing nothing else. I have a 4K monitor to my left that always has a Twitch stream and multiple website tabs open like reddit or news sites. Literally any second I am not spending playing my game is spent multi-tasking on that secondary monitor. Modern gamers aren't linear anymore. That shit died in the early 2000's boys.
I like AMD because they have always represented bang for your buck and the fact of the matter is that the industry has become a cesspool of shit since AMD hasn't been relevant and Intel has been price gouging my pockets for years now. In that sense I am a fanboy for AMD. They represent the underdog in the dGPU and CPU market. I want them to do well and be competitive if not laying a smackdown on Nvidia and Intel. This only benefits everyone. Prices go down. Tech doesn't stagnate at pitiful 1-2% IPC gains or 5-10% graphics power bumps.
No matter what, my rigs will always have what is the current powerhouse at the time its built. Within reason and budget of course. Crys is right though about gamers. We don't sit here with multi-core powerhouses just playing a game and doing nothing else. I have a 4K monitor to my left that always has a Twitch stream and multiple website tabs open like reddit or news sites. Literally any second I am not spending playing my game is spent multi-tasking on that secondary monitor. Modern gamers aren't linear anymore. That shit died in the early 2000's boys.
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Nobody in here was being irrational except the guy who started calling people fanboys. Just saying. Nobody was even bashing ryzen beyond some mild disappointment. I'm not sure what you are referring to.
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I pointed out why I called you a fanboy. You just "laughed" at me pointing it out. What's irrational is thinking it's funny when someone compares an 8350s to R7s to help those owners out. Fanboys are easy to spot, just look for the innuendo.
For everyone, gamers, desktop grandmothers. Teenage virgins who gotta frag dem bruhs. Dank towers and little missy editing her nail polish clips for instagram. It's targeted towards workstation users AND gamers. Works great for both. The counter point would be, so 7700Ks are a problem for Intel now, because they shouldn't be workstation CPUs? See, role reversed, sounds flat out stupid.
Here's a rational expectation of a product output in common real world usage. "Clearly" you say. Thanks xer0 and Jay for debunking such a 'clear' myth (one with logic the other with logic and a demonstration).
Hasn't happened yet? It's happening all the time. How are your software development skills? Just wondering, because this is not a very 'rational' statement from someone that would actually have real world experience. The whole world is moving towards multithreading if it hasn't already, for games most of that is in the name of Vulkan and DirectX 12x. Old games are fully playable, new games which are more demanding, are more and more compliant with these APIs. So saying something "hasn't happened yet" is 'clearly' wrong and debunked.
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This fanboy just bought an amd video card last month and I love it and think it was the steal of this gpu generation:
So maybe I am not a fanboy and maybe nobody else you called out is either. I don't know what triggered you, but nobody is under any obligation to agree with you. That doesn't make anyone a fanboy. You're being a dick and that's all there is to it.
So maybe I am not a fanboy and maybe nobody else you called out is either. I don't know what triggered you, but nobody is under any obligation to agree with you. That doesn't make anyone a fanboy. You're being a dick and that's all there is to it.
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That is not a refutation. I would say that is a confirmation of what I said and let me explain why.
So this is not an old approach to dismiss a claim that someone is a fanboy. AMD made incredible controllers for a great price in the 80s and early 90s. You had the same thing, Intel fanboys would go, 'see, I own an AMD NIC/DMA/FPU' (half of them didn't even know AMD made chips on their Intel board) and they tried to lay shade on themselves as this is some kind of fact they aren't fanboys. Well, if you haven't noticed, you pretty much deflected everything I said (again) to discuss a GPU purchase, the same way some racist might go, 'I have a black friend', to make an argument. But posting a screenshot of a purchase doesn't dispute what I said and WHY I called you out for being a fanboy.
It's so stupid, this was happening so bad in BBS days. I was sick of it then and it only got worse today. Like a Toyota fanboy saying they aren't a fanboy because they told their sister to buy a Pontiac Vibe. Or a Playstation fanboy saying they aren't biased because they own a Windows computer. So I guess owning literally hundreds of Intel CPUs and only having one daily use system with an AMD GPU suddenly means I can make bad claims about any product and pass them off as unbiased? No, that is not a rational argument. No, if someone makes an argument and introduces anecdotal evidence about their past purchases, then that's all it is, experience with their specific purchase that can be used to dispute specifics, not the entirety of every argument. ie: My 77 Ford Pinto was shit, so all Fords are shit. I tried a Blue Ribbon beer and didn't like it, I guess I don't like beer. Or in this case, I bought a RX480, therefore Ryzen is not a good CPU for heavy gaming as a use case users.
So this is not an old approach to dismiss a claim that someone is a fanboy. AMD made incredible controllers for a great price in the 80s and early 90s. You had the same thing, Intel fanboys would go, 'see, I own an AMD NIC/DMA/FPU' (half of them didn't even know AMD made chips on their Intel board) and they tried to lay shade on themselves as this is some kind of fact they aren't fanboys. Well, if you haven't noticed, you pretty much deflected everything I said (again) to discuss a GPU purchase, the same way some racist might go, 'I have a black friend', to make an argument. But posting a screenshot of a purchase doesn't dispute what I said and WHY I called you out for being a fanboy.
It's so stupid, this was happening so bad in BBS days. I was sick of it then and it only got worse today. Like a Toyota fanboy saying they aren't a fanboy because they told their sister to buy a Pontiac Vibe. Or a Playstation fanboy saying they aren't biased because they own a Windows computer. So I guess owning literally hundreds of Intel CPUs and only having one daily use system with an AMD GPU suddenly means I can make bad claims about any product and pass them off as unbiased? No, that is not a rational argument. No, if someone makes an argument and introduces anecdotal evidence about their past purchases, then that's all it is, experience with their specific purchase that can be used to dispute specifics, not the entirety of every argument. ie: My 77 Ford Pinto was shit, so all Fords are shit. I tried a Blue Ribbon beer and didn't like it, I guess I don't like beer. Or in this case, I bought a RX480, therefore Ryzen is not a good CPU for heavy gaming as a use case users.
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I apologize to everyone in this thread for engaging. My fault. I will stop. Hopefully this thread can move on cause there is gonna be a lot more interesting stuff to talk about with ryzen and its exciting after such a bland market for so long.
I like the gaming subforum a lot cause its the most civil place in all of CCS. So for real, my bad.
I like the gaming subforum a lot cause its the most civil place in all of CCS. So for real, my bad.
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What excites me about this is that AMD is going to cause Intel to produce a better product again. I remember back to the T-Bird days when AMD was competing with Intel and its been nearly what? 12-15 years since then? It will be nice to see Intel have to compete again. The real question is, will AMD be able to keep up this time?
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Remember back in the day when having a co-processor got you all the pussy you could handle?
Yeah, me neither.
Yeah, me neither.
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