Are The Bulls Better Without Derrick Rose?

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JosMin

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Last team to win a championship without an Superstar?

Can't even really count the 04 Pistons. Ben Wallace was an All-Star and won Defensive Player of the Year that year.

Last team to even go to the Finals without a Superstar?
I'm at a complete loss.

The ONLY team I can make a case for, even though they still had two All-Stars on their team was the 1977-78 and 78-79 Sonics. There was nothing that really stood out about that team and the league itself kinda sucked overall as the Lakers still need pieces, Bill Walton started his great injury history and the Eastern Conference was in total suckage.

Uh, Ben Wallace was not a superstar. He wasn't even a star. You're right -- this is a superstar league that generally requires a "superstar" to be successful. We won 66% of our games this year without our "star" (went 18-9). To win a playoff series, you need to win 57% of the games in that series, so shit, if we can legitimately win a few games and squeak out a few others, I don't think you'll find a single person this site, nor any Bulls fan who wouldn't be completely satisfied with that result. This team defied the odds all season, beat plenty of teams who were improved over last season, and still ended up with the best record in the league -- winning many of those games without Rose, without Deng and without Hamilton. Any team that gives any meaningful minutes to John Lucas III deserves a few strokes of good luck.

Call everyone who's trying to be optimistic a homer, but in the so-called unpredictable season, I'm not going to count anything out. I won't tell myself the Bulls can't win the NBA championship until they're eliminated. Look at the fucking Pacers -- they're a collection of B-tier talent with no star who still won 42 games in a compressed season. We still have a shot, albeit a small one. I'd rather have a small shot than no shot.
 
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FirstTimer

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Uh, Ben Wallace was not a superstar. He wasn't even a star. You're right -- this is a superstar league that generally requires a "superstar" to be successful. We won 66% of our games this year without our "star" (went 18-9). To win a playoff series, you need to win 57% of the games in that series, so shit, if we can legitimately win a few games and squeak out a few others, I don't think you'll find a single person this site, nor any Bulls fan who wouldn't be completely satisfied with that result. This team defied the odds all season, beat plenty of teams who were improved over last season, and still ended up with the best record in the league -- winning many of those games without Rose, without Deng and without Hamilton. Any team that gives any meaningful minutes to John Lucas III deserves a few strokes of good luck.

Call everyone who's trying to be optimistic a homer, but in the so-called unpredictable season, I'm not going to count anything out. I won't tell myself the Bulls can't win the NBA championship until they're eliminated. Look at the fucking Pacers -- they're a collection of B-tier talent with no star who still won 42 games in a compressed season. We still have a shot, albeit a small one. I'd rather have a small shot than no shot.

The thing is though the playoffs will play more "normal" in regards to how every other playoffs have been played. There is no more compressed scheduling etc.

Ben Wallace is odd but I think the overall point there is that he was an elite top level player at one thing and the starter for that team. The Bulls don't really have that and frankly if the Bulls are going to try and tell themselves they can go '04 Pistons while trying to battle a team with 3 superstar players...they are fooling themselves.
 

Scoot26

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Uh, Ben Wallace was not a superstar. He wasn't even a star. You're right -- this is a superstar league that generally requires a "superstar" to be successful.

Never said he was a superstar, I said he was an All-Star and won defensive player of the year. I don't see anyone winning DPOY on our team. Noah will get some votes, but he's not the best, and wasn't even an All-Star.

We won 66% of our games this year without our "star" (went 18-9). To win a playoff series, you need to win 57% of the games in that series, so shit, if we can legitimately win a few games and squeak out a few others, I don't think you'll find a single person this site, nor any Bulls fan who wouldn't be completely satisfied with that result. This team defied the odds all season, beat plenty of teams who were improved over last season, and still ended up with the best record in the league -- winning many of those games without Rose, without Deng and without Hamilton. Any team that gives any meaningful minutes to John Lucas III deserves a few strokes of good luck.

Again, regular season and playoffs are really two different heads. Our coach puts a TON of stock into regular season games. He puts a ton of stock in keeping our starters out there as long as possible. How many times since Thibs became coach have you had us fans yelling in game threads that (This game is wrapped up Thibs, sit down the starters!) While the lead was dwindling the other day, and after all was said and done, I dont blame Thibs for still having Rose out there still, but there have been many other times when the Bulls have been up by 20 points with less than 2 minutes remaining and Rose and Deng are still out there playing.

The 1989 Lakers lost Magic Johnson and Bryon Scott to injures in that years finals, they promptly were swept by the Pistons.

Call everyone who's trying to be optimistic a homer, but in the so-called unpredictable season, I'm not going to count anything out. I won't tell myself the Bulls can't win the NBA championship until they're eliminated. Look at the fucking Pacers -- they're a collection of B-tier talent with no star who still won 42 games in a compressed season. We still have a shot, albeit a small one. I'd rather have a small shot than no shot.

As a person who has a high interest in history, I tend to side with history, no matter what happens in a misaligned season. There is no team in this league that is misrepresented in their seed except maybe the Knicks, and they match up terribly with the Heat.

The Pacers are a well-rounded team that lacks a star point guard to take that team over the edge. If they got that, then they are a force to be reckoned with. Until then, they are done in the 2nd round (much like our 06-07 Bulls). They may not even get out of the 1st round.

Stars win in the end, thats the NBA that David Stern has designed. Its not the NCAA Tournament where people want Cinderella teams to win. Hell, the Cinderella team in the NCAA lost the championship game both years, Butler.

Stern wants the stars. If they don't he loses global viewership. While Chicago will have a US market to watch no matter who is on the team, not many overseas are going to care about a bunch of nobodies who might win an NBA championship. He wants to market the LeBron's, the Dirk's, the Durants, Kobe's, not John Lucas III.

Like I said, realistically I'm down and out on the Bulls. Will I still root them on? Of course. Will I still watch every game cheering them on? Of course. But I can't sit here and say "Hey we're actually going to win this whole thing." Not without our best player. Talent will triumph in the end, and we do not have enough heart and will to overcome that talent. This isn't Hollywood. This is reality.
 

Scoot26

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Ben Wallace is odd but I think the overall point there is that he was an elite top level player at one thing and the starter for that team. The Bulls don't really have that and frankly if the Bulls are going to try and tell themselves they can go '04 Pistons while trying to battle a team with 3 superstar players...they are fooling themselves.

Another thing is the 04 Pistons had who standing in their way? The Pacers were their only real challenge in the East.

And really who are you more afraid of?
Haslem-Bosh-LeBron-Wade-Chalmers
or
JFoster-JO'Neal-Artest-Miller-Tinsley

The Pistons also had the fortune of beating an LA Lakers team that was having its own dysfunctional issues between Shaq and Kobe.
 
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