Atheists’ answer to summer camps...

BigPete

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http://www.washingtonpost.com/lifes...bible-school/2011/07/19/gIQAe1hRbI_story.html



Camp Quest is atheists’ answer to Bible school

By Monica Hesse, Published: July 26

A dispatch from atheist summer camp.



At Camp Quest Chesapeake, 34 campers have been asked to create, in the name of self-governance, a list of five rules that they think everyone should follow for the week.



“Be friendly to everyone.” Camp director Sarah Menon reads an item from one picnic table’s list before moving on. “Have your water bottle filled with water.” “Don’t attempt to fight telepathic bears without a helmet.”



The goal of the exercise is to get campers to think about the democratic process: What is the purpose of creating and following rules? What if a rule passes that they don’t agree with? Are they obligated to follow it anyway?



“We have a rule over here,” Menon calls out cheerfully, “about worshiping.”



The camper whose paper she has been reading looks affronted. “That,” he says, in an exasperated verbal eye roll, “was a joke.”



Perhaps one should begin with what these campers believe in. They believe in critical and creative thinking. They believe in mutual respect and living ethically. They believe in arts and crafts. But here in a wooded national park south of Manassas, under shade trees and American flags and the mosquito haze of a swimming hole, they do not believe in God.



Camp Quest Chesapeake is a summer camp for atheists. Or the children of atheists. Plus: agnostics, secular humanists, freethinkers and other self-identified members of the non-religious community. This summer is the camp’s first appearance in the Mid-Atlantic — the second-largest launch in Camp Quest history.



The first Camp Quest opened in the Cincinnati area in 1996, founded by Edwin Kagin, a former Eagle Scout who was annoyed with the religious overtones in modern Boy Scouting. Camp Quest had about 20 campers. In 2002, it incorporated, launching a branch in Tennessee. A few years ago the organization hired its first paid employee. There are now 10 Camp Quests in North America and a few more in Europe.



At the picnic tables, the campers are asked to come up with a cabin cheer. Someone from one cabin — which the campers have named Chocolate Rain — elatedly suggests, “We Don’t Believe in Cheers!”



“I don’t have any freethinker friends at home,” says Jake Monsky, thoughtfully. He’s 11, with blond hair damp from spending his free time at the lake. At some of his friends’ houses, the families pray before dinner. Jake says he bows his head because he doesn’t want to be rude. He likes these friends a lot, but sometimes, he thinks that if he told his friends that he isn’t religious, “then they might not be my friends anymore.”



Which gets at one of the camp’s main purposes: It’s the first chance that many attendees have ever had to be around people who will listen to their beliefs — or lack of — without fear or ridicule. In the most recent American Religious Identification Survey, 15 percent of Americans claimed no religious affiliation, with nearly 2 percent specifically identifying as atheist or agnostic.



“I was a believer,” says Amy Monsky, Jake’s mom, who is a volunteer counselor at Chesapeake. She grew up Catholic. When she left that faith, “I feel like I lost that village that a lot of religious people have.” Next year, Monsky wants to launch a Camp Quest branch in South Carolina, closer to her home.



“Think of how many hundreds of religious camps there are in this country,” Kagin says. (The Christian Camp and Conference Association alone has 865 members, and there are many more who don’t belong to the organization.) “Camp Quest is a night light in a dark and scary room for children of freethinking parents.”



The site for Camp Chesapeake was the group’s second choice. They originally tried to rent from a Methodist camp, but the Methodists edged away when they learned whom they were renting to. One religious blog has dubbed Camp Quest a “Re-Education camp.”



“We want kids to know what critical thinking is, and how to use it,” says Menon, whose day job is with the federal government. “And there’s an ethics component. We want kids to know that they should do the right thing” even if they don’t believe in heaven.



Which some might. Camp Quest offers daily lectures on world religions from an informational perspective. Also, lectures about famous freethinkers such as iconic physicist Richard Feynman and “Harry Potter” star Daniel Radcliffe.



Other atheist camp activities include atheist swimming, atheist nature hikes and atheist stargazing.



One of the more popular elective sessions on a recent afternoon is called Socrates Cafe, in which a counselor leads a group of campers in a series of philosophical questions. The question today is, “What is knowledge?”



“Knowledge is common sense,” suggests one of the counselors in training.



“What if your cultural values were cannibalism?” a camper named Valerie responds. “Wouldn’t that be your common sense then?”



Soon the discussion goes broad, as philosophical discussions tend to do. Does knowledge relate to intelligence? To instinct? Is there any relationship between knowledge, and good and evil?



“No man considers himself evil,” says Jacob Maxfield, who is 12. Even Hitler probably didn’t think he was evil, Jacob continues, though he definitely made very, very bad choices.



“I’m an atheist, personally,” Jacob says later. “But I don’t get angry at other people for believing in God. I respect them. But sometimes I rub them the wrong way.”



So, what has been his favorite part of camp so far? The Socrates Cafe? The deep discussions of ethics?



“Well,” he considers carefully. Meeting other people like him has been really great. “But when I got here, someone asked me if I fence. Then I got a foam sword” and he and the other camper ran around the woods, between the cabins and through the fresh air, happily bopping each other. “That,” he says, “was fun.”
 

Chief Walking Stick

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Isn't sending young children to camps like this just "brainwashing"? I don't support bible schools or any kind of camps that promote instilling beliefs on young people who can't comprehend a subject.



11 year olds don't know shit and shouldn't be swayed either way.



These kind of camps piss me off.
 

BigPete

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I didn't see anything in the article that would make me think they are forcing the kids to partake in an activity that forces them to believe a certain thing. Most of the activities mentioned are free sharing of ideas and a sense of democracy.



I personally went to YMCA (Young Men's Christian Association) camps growing up and my mom worked at the YMCA until well after I left home. While YMCA camps are not overtly religious organizations like say a church sponsored camp is, they do interject plenty of christianity into the daily lives of campers. From prayer based songs prior to meals, to putting a cross and 'christian' on every logo, shirt, award, etc. Keep in mind, this is just a YMCA camp, not a bible camp like the ones the article highlights. Those places 'brainwash' kids.



This place promotes free thought and sharing of that free thought. It also promotes a safe harbor sense of community. If a non-believer went to a bible camp and spoke out on their thoughts, they would get ostricized and sent home, and maybe even beaten up...kids being kids and all...
 

the canadian dream

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I think this particular article goes out of it's way to attest than anyone with religious beliefs in their life are not "free thinkers". I would walk lightly around that sort of stereotype.





Anyways.....I wait for the spaghetti monster camps. Now that's a camp that would be fun.



Here we go with another religion based thread.
 

roshinaya

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Here in Finland there are so called Prometheus camps which have pretty much the same idea of free-thinking and secular humanism. It was created as an alternative to the kids who don't belong to the church. Here it's common for 15 year olds going to confirmation camp, not really for being believers but because many of their friends go and you get presents from your family after being confirmed.
 

the canadian dream

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Here in Finland there are so called Prometheus camps which have pretty much the same idea of free-thinking and secular humanism. It was created as an alternative to the kids who don't belong to the church. Here it's common for 15 year olds going to confirmation camp, not really for being believers but because many of their friends go and you get presents from your family after being confirmed.



aha the powers of positive reinforcement. Such a beautiful thing.
 

supraman

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I think this particular article goes out of it's way to attest than anyone with religious beliefs in their life are not "free thinkers". I would walk lightly around that sort of stereotype.





Anyways.....I wait for the spaghetti monster camps. Now that's a camp that would be fun.



Here we go with another religion based thread.



Agreed that the article does not. I know of at least one (I don't have a huge social circle) person that is Catholic but is a logical human being and his knowledge of the good book is rather solid and his reasoning for his belief (though I don't agree) is at least logical. I actually enjoy discussing religion with him it is always a learning experience for me. My sister (he's her fiance now) is hell bent on converting me but Phil isn't we just discuss things.
 

BigPete

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I did not start the thread to provoke a big religion debate. If it happens then I can't stop that. I just thought it was a good point that like the originator felt even boy scout camp has heavy religious over tones. Why can't there be more summer camps promoting spirituality and intellectual growth without christian theology pushing it?
 

BigPete

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Here is the funny thing about this thread, I created it last night while watching a history channel show about many of the books and material left out of the New Testament.

If anyone thinks I'm some ignorant anti religious activist, you couldn't be more wrong. I converted to Catholicism about five years ago and have studied dozens of religions around the planet in the last ten or fifteen years. I find it absurd that any individual finds their group's theology the 'most right'. I would rather believe that they are all man made and therefore 'wrong' than to believe there is one golden nugget hiding out there that is the true divine answer.
 

supraman

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I did not start the thread to provoke a big religion debate. If it happens then I can't stop that. I just thought it was a good point that like the originator felt even boy scout camp has heavy religious over tones. Why can't there be more summer camps promoting spirituality and intellectual growth without christian theology pushing it?



Honestly? I don't think critical thinking is taught by the school or parents and not just today's parents but the previous generations as well. Personally I think critical thinking is the most important thing to teach someone. You teach them critical thinking I feel the rest will fall into place.



But that's just me and /end soapboxing
 

supraman

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Here is the funny thing about this thread, I created it last night while watching a history channel show about many of the books and material left out of the New Testament.

If anyone thinks I'm some ignorant anti religious activist, you couldn't be more wrong. I converted to Catholicism about five years ago and have studied dozens of religions around the planet in the last ten or fifteen years. I find it absurd that any individual finds their group's theology the 'most right'. I would rather believe that they are all man made and therefore 'wrong' than to believe there is one golden nugget hiding out there that is the true divine answer.



That makes sense. I think people fail to ask themselves "What makes my religion the right one". Realistically there isn't a good answer but that's sorta the point



No religion is better than the other but if I had to give an edge to one of them, I'd say the older the more plausible
 

winos5

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My kids go to summer camps. But they are sports related, don't believe there is much religion there, other than maybe a team prayer type of thing.
 

roshinaya

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No religion is better than the other but if I had to give an edge to one of them, I'd say the older the more plausible



Why do you say that? Not looking to start shit, just curious. What makes an older religion more plausible? Plausible how?
 

Variable

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I think this camp is probably more a good thing than it can be a bad thing. I think they have honorable intentions, or at least it seems like it, especially when it comes to thinking critically, accepting others as who they are. Like Supra said with critical thinking, that's certainly not being thought in schools , it's more like programming than anything else. I just don't feel that their association with atheism and being a "freethinker" is as true as they make it out to be. Because even being an atheist you're still disallowing yourself the possibilities of certain things to exist or to be possible. It's still confining to a degree, or as I would say "too much left brain".
 

TSD

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That makes sense. I think people fail to ask themselves "What makes my religion the right one". Realistically there isn't a good answer but that's sorta the point



No religion is better than the other but if I had to give an edge to one of them, I'd say the older the more plausible



Based on what logic?



On topic, im pretty indifferent about the camp. I think Its great that they want to do this, but from my recollection of childhood, religion was never an issue that came up amongst friends, even when i was in catholic school. I dont think kids really care, its something they do, but they dont really think about it, they accept it, then do whatever they want.
 

supraman

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Based on what logic?



If a god or gods did exist they would have taught the first human being the "true" ways.



I mean where did the concept of religion come from in the first place?



Also why did polytheism arise before monotheism?
 

bri

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I went to YMCA camps too, but never thought of them as any kind of religious experience. We did crafts and went different places and got to swim every day. Of course I was like 7 at the time. And you certainly don't have to be an Atheist to be a free thinker. I was never raised to believed that being Catholic was the only acceptable religion. I was raised the opposite. I was taught that we were Catholic and that was right for us, but that didn't mean it was right for everyone. My parents could not afford to send me to Catholic school, but my mom has always said that even if they could have they wouldn't have cause she wanted me to be exposed to all different kinds of people and learn about them. I don't know how many times I have heard over the years "Being Different does not mean being Wrong."
 

JOVE23

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“Don’t attempt to fight telepathic bears without a helmet.” Words to live by.
 

BigPete

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If a god or gods did exist they would have taught the first human being the "true" ways.



I mean where did the concept of religion come from in the first place?



Also why did polytheism arise before monotheism?

At first it was easier to explain that there were many gods that controlled individual things like Karma, the wind, fire, the skies, love, etc. Then it got out of hand with religions like Hinduism where there are litterally thousands of gods. So the peoples around modern Isreal started to create a monotheistic solution. There weren't the only ones though, just probably the most documented to date.
 

Variable

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Based on what logic?



On topic, im pretty indifferent about the camp. I think Its great that they want to do this, but from my recollection of childhood, religion was never an issue that came up amongst friends, even when i was in catholic school. I dont think kids really care, its something they do, but they dont really think about it, they accept it, then do whatever they want.



But isn't that sort of the problem? Because once they grow older those ideals, at least some of them, stay with them. Thing pertaining to what it means to be "moral", sexuality, other religions, etc.
 

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