- Joined:
- May 12, 2010
- Posts:
- 49,010
- Liked Posts:
- 27,573
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm.... it was almost like something changed last season compared to previous seasons.
Good gosh you are so dumb and wrong all the time.
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm.... it was almost like something changed last season compared to previous seasons.
Good gosh you are so dumb and wrong all the time.
msadows
Well-known member
- Joined:
- Aug 23, 2012
- Posts:
- 29,308
- Liked Posts:
- 24,234
Howard was much worse last year to 16 as well.
This year he went down nonstop with arm tackles and was indecisive in the backfield. Dude was mediocre as ****, and his scheme didn't help him.
If you're blaming the change in scheme for his production falloff, then that is just plain dumb and wrong too.
Don't get me wrong, its a combo of both, but a lot of it is because Howard was no where near the same back as he was in 16. That back was tops in the league in YAC, last years version of howard went down to arm tackles.
- Joined:
- Sep 15, 2012
- Posts:
- 64,990
- Liked Posts:
- 41,787
That doesn't take into account the issue of trading him to another SB contender. Even if another RB replaces his production if Howard excels and the Eagles beat us in the playoffs again then it was still a bad mood as you strengthened another SB contender to save 2 and get a 5th round pick at best.
I was saying you were defending him. That was a general question since no one seemed to want to answer the question.
msadows
Well-known member
- Joined:
- Aug 23, 2012
- Posts:
- 29,308
- Liked Posts:
- 24,234
Maybe the eagles were only one of a couple teams interested? We won't ever know.
If so, wouldn't it be better for Howard to trade him to a team where he will get 250 carries than let him waste away with 120 carries on our roster.
kvngace23
New member
- Joined:
- Mar 19, 2019
- Posts:
- 22
- Liked Posts:
- 2
did we have to change our blocking scheme to fit more of jordan howard running ability
msadows
Well-known member
- Joined:
- Aug 23, 2012
- Posts:
- 29,308
- Liked Posts:
- 24,234
I very much doubt that the bears are worried about Jordan Howard hurting us in the playoffs.
Good chance Wentz is hurt by week 8 anyways. No Foles to save their season this time.
Good chance Wentz is hurt by week 8 anyways. No Foles to save their season this time.
kvngace23
New member
- Joined:
- Mar 19, 2019
- Posts:
- 22
- Liked Posts:
- 2
holdup who is the eagles backup qb now because carson wentz injury history is a very huge concern
- Joined:
- Sep 15, 2012
- Posts:
- 64,990
- Liked Posts:
- 41,787
Well sure it is better for Howard but the question I asked that you avoided is whether it is better for the Bears to potentially strengthen a team that has outperformed us the previous 2 years?
I guess I am confused as to whether Pace is operating as Howard's agent or the GM. I would think you trade him to a place where he poses less risk to our chances of winning. That is not the Eagles.
Really that would be pretty stupid of them not to worry about the 2017 SB winner and the team that just knocked us out last year.
Pegger
President Stoopid
- Joined:
- Sep 18, 2012
- Posts:
- 7,621
- Liked Posts:
- 5,493
- Location:
- Communist Canada
Just checking in to give the opinion.
Personally I like Howard. He has limitations in both the receiving game and is far form 'explosive', but he's a hard nosed north-south running back with very good vision. He will rarely go down behind the line of scrimmage, is a respectable blocker when asked to stay in (allowed 2 pressures on 92 pass blocking snaps last year) and rarely fumbles the football (5 fumbles in his career, 3 lost - with 850 touches that's a pretty crazy low percentage (0.59% fumbled 0.38% lost)).
For the Bears he just wasn't a fit. My thoughts are that Nagy wants one RB that can do everything like a Kareem Hunt. Howard is not that guy. The issue I have with that logic is that RB that can do it all is either an expensive FA or a higher draft pick. IMO when you look at teams that win a championship it's typically through RBBC and cheaper contracts, but that's only my opinion. I also see how a Barkley/Elliott completely change how those respective teams perform.
For the Eagles he's going to fill the Ajayi or Blount role. Both of those guys were grinders who lived between the tackles and was an important skill set that vanished when Ajayi went down last year. They patched together some of that production with Josh Adams last season, but late in the season the rookie had a knack for fumbling at the worst time, so his usage vanished in the playoffs.
Finally, when looking at the trade I'm happy as an Eagles fan. A 6th round pick (that can be a 5th) is really nothing and the ~$2M contract won't impact any other moves. Add in that the team will have a few high compensatory picks coming their way (estimated 3rd and 4th rounders) the 5th/6th is not an issue. I'd add if Howard performs well and is healthy in the offseason someone could easily offer him a decent deal, which means another comp pick could be coming to Philly. Thinking this through a good comparable RB is CJ Anderson, who's still hanging around as a FA, but I'd also say he did sign 4 year, $18M deal with Denver a few years ago, so the market is probably somewhere between those two.
The trade for the Bears is a big shrug. I can only assume based on the number of RB draft visits and Howard's usage/production that they weren't going to have Howard on the field much, so they weren't going to do much that would warrant a high compensatory pick anyway. The potential risk there is that if they draft a RB early and ultimately that player isn't ready to produce yet there could be a problem. Just thinking back to last year's draft, which had a higher overall grade for the RB position, in the first 2 rounds there was Saquon Barkley, Rashaad Penny, Sony Michel, Nick Chubb, Ronald Jones, Kerryon Johnson and Derrius Guice. Of the 7 RBs drafted 4 produced right away while the other 3 are a mixed bag of unknowns. After those rounds not a single drafted RB had more than 521 rushing yards (Freeman), so it's fair to assume there's a good chance the 2019 Bears rushing attack will largely feature Davis and Cohen with the potential of a rookie giving some production.
Personally I like Howard. He has limitations in both the receiving game and is far form 'explosive', but he's a hard nosed north-south running back with very good vision. He will rarely go down behind the line of scrimmage, is a respectable blocker when asked to stay in (allowed 2 pressures on 92 pass blocking snaps last year) and rarely fumbles the football (5 fumbles in his career, 3 lost - with 850 touches that's a pretty crazy low percentage (0.59% fumbled 0.38% lost)).
For the Bears he just wasn't a fit. My thoughts are that Nagy wants one RB that can do everything like a Kareem Hunt. Howard is not that guy. The issue I have with that logic is that RB that can do it all is either an expensive FA or a higher draft pick. IMO when you look at teams that win a championship it's typically through RBBC and cheaper contracts, but that's only my opinion. I also see how a Barkley/Elliott completely change how those respective teams perform.
For the Eagles he's going to fill the Ajayi or Blount role. Both of those guys were grinders who lived between the tackles and was an important skill set that vanished when Ajayi went down last year. They patched together some of that production with Josh Adams last season, but late in the season the rookie had a knack for fumbling at the worst time, so his usage vanished in the playoffs.
Finally, when looking at the trade I'm happy as an Eagles fan. A 6th round pick (that can be a 5th) is really nothing and the ~$2M contract won't impact any other moves. Add in that the team will have a few high compensatory picks coming their way (estimated 3rd and 4th rounders) the 5th/6th is not an issue. I'd add if Howard performs well and is healthy in the offseason someone could easily offer him a decent deal, which means another comp pick could be coming to Philly. Thinking this through a good comparable RB is CJ Anderson, who's still hanging around as a FA, but I'd also say he did sign 4 year, $18M deal with Denver a few years ago, so the market is probably somewhere between those two.
The trade for the Bears is a big shrug. I can only assume based on the number of RB draft visits and Howard's usage/production that they weren't going to have Howard on the field much, so they weren't going to do much that would warrant a high compensatory pick anyway. The potential risk there is that if they draft a RB early and ultimately that player isn't ready to produce yet there could be a problem. Just thinking back to last year's draft, which had a higher overall grade for the RB position, in the first 2 rounds there was Saquon Barkley, Rashaad Penny, Sony Michel, Nick Chubb, Ronald Jones, Kerryon Johnson and Derrius Guice. Of the 7 RBs drafted 4 produced right away while the other 3 are a mixed bag of unknowns. After those rounds not a single drafted RB had more than 521 rushing yards (Freeman), so it's fair to assume there's a good chance the 2019 Bears rushing attack will largely feature Davis and Cohen with the potential of a rookie giving some production.
- Joined:
- Sep 15, 2012
- Posts:
- 64,990
- Liked Posts:
- 41,787
Of course it is a huge concern. If Wentz gets hurt and the Eagles flounder then no worries in trading Howard. If Wentz makes it to the playoffs and we lose as Howard runs wild then that would be a huge concern.
I am not saying it is definitely a bad move. I am saying the move carries risk if we run into the Eagles again and they prevail. I would have much rather traded him to less of a contender even if it meant accepting less comp.
- Joined:
- Aug 20, 2012
- Posts:
- 12,364
- Liked Posts:
- 11,793
- Location:
- Richmond, VA
My favorite teams
you honestly sound like Howard stole your boyfriend...players have down years all the time. Not only did he go from a system that suited him to one that he does not fit well in but the o-line was not as good as the ones in previous years.
Every knowledgeable fan knew his stats would take a pretty big hit this year...it's like saying if you jump in a lake you will get wet.
Saying he sucks because the most recent year of stats was in a system he did not fit in with a o-line that was not as good as the previous years is being a little short sighted. But you are pretty dumb, so that's par for the course for @msadows
- Joined:
- Apr 16, 2010
- Posts:
- 18,876
- Liked Posts:
- 7,481
- Location:
- Forest Park
My favorite teams
IT IS GETTING REAL IN HERE.
- Joined:
- Aug 21, 2012
- Posts:
- 30,325
- Liked Posts:
- 25,130
- Location:
- USA
I think that is overthinking it a bit....I believe Pace was doing what was in the Bears best interest in securing a high enough draft pick....teams trade intra-conference all the time. I think the real no no is the intra-division.
r1terrell23
Well-known member
- Joined:
- Aug 23, 2012
- Posts:
- 3,063
- Liked Posts:
- 1,595
The only way the Bears can get better because of this trade is if that pick next year is a good football player. We could have kept Howard on this roster and added a back in the draft, or even traded him at the draft. We may not suffer because of this trade, but we won't win it just because Howard is no longer here.
fenderpfunk
Well-known member
- Joined:
- Nov 5, 2012
- Posts:
- 3,462
- Liked Posts:
- 2,668
Wrong
msadows
Well-known member
- Joined:
- Aug 23, 2012
- Posts:
- 29,308
- Liked Posts:
- 24,234
The oline was worse in 2017, and he played much better.
Some of it was on nagy, but howard was trash last year. Not saying he can't improve, but its more likely he remains trash than repeats 2016 when he had the best interior line in football.
kvngace23
New member
- Joined:
- Mar 19, 2019
- Posts:
- 22
- Liked Posts:
- 2
[
it was no point of keep howard and draft a guy in this year draft
r1terrell23
Well-known member
- Joined:
- Aug 23, 2012
- Posts:
- 3,063
- Liked Posts:
- 1,595
My personal rule is I wouldn't trade with a team in my division unless I thought I'd clearly win that trade. I also would trade with a team that I may meet in the postseason of the NFC playoffs, and certainly not with the team that just eliminated me. I have to take into account Alshon and Howard wanting to stick it to us big time. I'd avoid that situation as you don't need talented players having any extra motivation in the playoffs.
msadows
Well-known member
- Joined:
- Aug 23, 2012
- Posts:
- 29,308
- Liked Posts:
- 24,234
Better to give the guy who sucks at his job more playing time because of nostalgia rather than draft/sign a better player to take his snaps.
- Joined:
- Apr 19, 2014
- Posts:
- 19,748
- Liked Posts:
- 11,025
Staff online NOW
-
bamainatlantaYou wake him up, you keep him up